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H. or R.]

Report of the Postmaster General.

(JANUARY, 1824.

what shall become of that country, which each | rope-England and the Allies. If Greece can of them desires to possess. Can it be supposed become an independent nation, let one of them that the Allies, who are not disposed to allow take the first step in the recognition. The the independence of South America, who scarce- Allies are ruled by Russia. England holds the ly tolerate us, will permit two or three millions fate of the world. Calculating on her policy, of half civilized people, in their vicinity, to form I think she will, she must, make a stand against a Republic? It is not to be expected. The Russia. As England cannot become the head most that can be done for the advantage of the of the Alliance, her pride secures us. She Greeks, is to assist them to obtain favorable might become one hand of the Alliance, allowterms from the Turks. Our interference may ing France is to be the other, and Russia the furnish a pretext to men of blood-to come head; but that situation would not gratify her upon us; and, whatever inay be said of the pride. England will make a stand against the strength of the United States, I am not for ex- Allies, and we should support her. But she posing it to trial, in a contest with the Allies. will not strike for Greece; she will pursue another course of policy, and with good reason. It is the interest of England to prevent the extension of Russian power. To prevent this extension, it is necessary that the Turkish Empire should be maintained one and indivisible. England may strike for Turkey, because, with English aid, Turkey may stand against Russia England will, if necessary, strike for the independence of the new nations of Spanish America. She will not suffer the Allies to add them to their confederacy, or Spain to blot them from the map of the world. My enmity to England has been very steady for many years, but it shall cease if England takes up arms for the independence of nations. England and the United States can secure the independence of nations. Whether the United States, without England, could, must be proved by time.

The extensive and enlightened view of the policy pursued by the Allied Powers, taken by the honorable member from Massachusetts, (Mr. WEBSTER,) authorizes a few remarks upon the same subject. It seems to me that our policy is to give no reasonable cause of offence, and to stand on our guard. It belongs to England to interfere with Greece, or the Allies; and if she is involved in a war with the Allies, for the independence of nations, we ought to give her assurance that we will not be neutral, but will give her faithful and honorable support. If we are to be engaged in war with all the powers of Europe, it may be better to begin while we can have allies in the Spanish American nations; for, it will be obvious, if the Allies attack them, that nothing is intended for us, but the favor of being the last destroyed.

The cause of freedom, the hope of mankind, Let us leave the fate of Greece and of Turkey depends on the ultimate success of the hitherto to England. If it is the interest of England successful experiment in the science of govern- that the Turkish Empire shall remain undivided, ment, making in the United States. When we it is ours. If it is the interest of England that consider the importance of the interests confided Turkey and Persia should be at peace, because to us, it must appear unpardonable wantonly to their wars endanger the religion of Islam, it is hazard the success of that experiment. If there ours. England and the United States have be a mode of destroying civil liberty, it is by now a common cause and a common interest. leading this Government into unnecessary wars. Russia is now the great enemy of the independ There can be no increase of the happiness of ence of nations and of free institutions. Engthis people. Individuals may experience wants; land will not acknowledge the independence of but, as a nation, we have nothing more to ask Greece, for that would divide and weaken the of Heaven. All we have to ask of other na- | Turkish Empire; and what will then stop the tions is, friendship and "let us alone." What progress of Russia? Neither Persia nor India. shall we deserve if, without necessity, we plunge Russia will establish an empire greater than the this happy people into war and distress? What-Roman, in the zenith of its power; from the ever may be said of the valor of our people, and the glory of the nation, I should be very unwilling to engage in a war with Europe. We might defend ourselves. I think we should successfully defend ourselves. I am no prophet of evil. We do not act on our own responsibility; we act for an immortal people. This people are to be immortal; but whether in freedom or abject subjection, is uncertain. This people are to be responsible for our acts, with their treasure and their blood. I am not disposed to bring upon them a trial, such as Spain passed through, in the war waged against that nation, for the purpose of placing Joseph Bonaparte on the throne.

England and the United States seem to me to have a common interest to resist these unholy Allies. There are now only two powers in Eu

authority of which, it will be in vain for man to attempt to escape. Sir, our course, I think, is plain. Let us be moderate and just. Let us offer no aggression; throw out no menaces, and give the Allies no pretext to quarrel with us. The committee then rose, and the House adjourned.

TUESDAY, January 27.

Report of the Postmaster General. The SPEAKER laid before the House a report of the Postmaster General, of such "further measures as are necessary to provide for a more equitable compensation to deputy postmasters, according to the duties and services rendered by them," prepared in obedience to a resolution of the House of Representatives, adopted at the

JANUARY, 1824.]

Navy Peace Establishment.

[H. OF R.

last session of Congress; which report was read, | bor performed, as the labor at some offices is ten times and laid on the table. It is as follows:

POST OFFICE DEPARTMENT, Jan. 24, 1824. SIR: In obedience to a resolution of the House of Representatives of the United States, at their last session, which "directed the Postmaster General to report, at an early period of the next session of Congress, what further measures are necessary to provide for a more equitable compensation to deputy postmasters, according to the duties and services rendered by them," I have the honor to report, that the present mode of compensating deputy postmasters, by giving them a graduated per cent. upon moneys received by them, is believed to be, in most cases, the most equitable that can be adopted. So far as this compensation extends, it is generally proportioned to the labor required, and the responsibility incurred.

Deputy postmasters, with a few exceptions, receive less for their services than any other officers of the General Government. But, as competent persons to discharge the duties of postmasters have been found willing to serve, in every part of the country, and as the present embarrassment of this Department requires the utmost economy in its expenditures, it is believed that the public interest would not, at this time, be promoted, by a general increase of their compensation. A small addition of pay to each postmaster would afford but little benefit to the individual, whilst it would take from the receipts of the Department an amount so considerable, as to render an appropriation from the Treasury indispensable. There are, however, some post-offices, where the labor is great, and the perquisites so small, that, unless some additional compensation be given, it is feared competent persons cannot long be found to discharge the duties.

I have endeavored, though unsuccessfully, to fix upon some rule, which would give additional compensation, where it seems to be indispensable, without extending the provision so far as to render the amount objectionable. It is believed that no provision can be made, embracing a class of cases, so as to give an increase of pay, in the just proportion which the services require.

There are several hundred offices at which packages are distributed, for which no additional compensation is given. In some cases this duty is very laborious, whilst the perquisites of the offices are very small. An increased per cent. upon the moneys received by each, would not graduate the pay in proportion to the service required, as, at some offices, which receive not more than one hundred and fifty dollars, this service is as laborious as at others, where more than a thousand dollars are received. If, in such cases, an increase of ten per cent. were given, the compensation to some would be more than six times greater than to others.

More than seventy offices distribute packages after ten o'clock at night, and before five in the morning. Postmasters who discharge this duty, are entitled to consideration, not only on account of the labor which they perform, but the unseasonable hours in which they are required to perform it. But, in these cases, an additional per cent. on the moneys received, would not do equal justice, as the disproportion for compensation, for similar services, would be as great as above stated.

greater than at others.

If the means of the Department would authorize the measure, an increase of pay to postmasters who separate packages, and to some others, would be neither unjust nor impolitic; but, at present, it seems to be necessary to confine any provision for an increase within very narrow limits.

On a full consideration of the subject, it is believed that a special provision, in each case where an increase of pay shall be deemed indispensable, can be made with more justice to the postmaster, and less injury to the revenue of the Department, than any other mode which can be adopted.

Which is respectfully submitted. Hon. HENRY CLAY,

JOHN MCLEAN.

Speaker House of Representatives.

FRIDAY, January 30.

Navy Peace Establishment.

A Message was received from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, as follows: To the House of Representatives of the United States :

In compliance with a resolution of the House of Representatives, of the 15th of December last, requesting the President of the United States "to communicate a plan for a Peace Establishment of the Navy of the United States," I herewith transmit a report from the Secretary of the Navy, which contains the plan required.

In presenting this plan to the consideration of Congress, I avail myself of the occasion to make some remarks on it, which the importance of the subject requires, and experience justifies.

If a system of universal and permanent peace could be established; or, if, in war, the belligerent parties would respect the rights of neutral powers, we should have no occasion for a navy or an army. The expense and dangers of such establishments might be avoided. The history of all ages proves that this cannot be presumed; on the contrary, that at least one-half of every century, in ancient as well as modern times, has been consumed in wars, and often of the most general and desolating character. Nor is there any cause to infer, if we examine the condition of the nations with which we have the most intercourse and strongest political relations, that we shall, in future, be exempt from that calamity, within any period, to which a rational calculation may be extended. And as to the rights of neutral powers, it is sufficient to appeal to our own experience to demonstrate how little regard will be paid to them, whenever they come in conflict with the interest of the powers at war, while we rely on the justice of our cause and on argument alone. The amount of the property of our fellow-citizens, which was seized and confiscated, or destroyed, by the belligerent parties, in the wars of the French revolution, and of those which followed, before we became a party to the war, is almost incalculable.

The whole movement of our Government, from the establishment of our independence, has been guided by a sacred regard for peace. Situated, as we are, in the new hemisphere; distant from Europe, and unA specific sum, given to each postmaster for this connected with its affairs; blessed with the happiest service, would not compensate in proportion to the la- | Government on earth, and having no objects of ambi

H. OF R.]

Navy Peace Establishment.

[JANUARY, 1824.

It was under a thorough conviction of these truths, derived from the admonitions of the late war, that Congress, as early as the year 1816, during the term of my enlightened and virtuous predecessor, under whom the war had been declared, 'prosecuted, and terminated, digested, and made provision for, the defence of our country, and support of its rights, in peace as well as in war, by acts, which authorized and enjoined the augmentation of our Navy, to a prescribed limit, and the construction of suitable fortifications throughout the whole extent of our maritime frontier, and wherever else they might be deemed necessary. It is to the execution of these works, both land and naval, and under a thorough conviction that by hastening their completion I should render the best service to my country, and give the most effectual support to our free republican system of Government that my humble faculties would admit of, that I have devoted so much of my time and labor to this great system of national policy, since I came into this office, and shall continue to do it, until my retirement from it, at the end of your next session.

tion to gratify; the United States have steadily culti- | be inevitable. Hence, the subject of defence becomes vated the relations of amity with every power. And intimately connected, in all its parts, in war and in if, in any European wars, a respect for our rights peace, for the land and at sea. No Government will might be relied on, it was undoubtedly in those to be disposed, in its wars with other powers, to violate which I have adverted. The conflict being vital, the our rights, if it knows we have the means, are preforce being nearly equally balanced, and the result pared, and resolved, to defend them. The motive will uncertain, each party had the strongest motives of in- also be diminished, if it knows that our defences by terest to cultivate our good will, lest we might be land are so well planned and executed, that an inthrown into the opposite scale. Powerful as this con- vasion of our coast cannot be productive of the evils sideration usually is, it was nevertheless utterly dis- to which we have heretofore been exposed. regarded, in almost every stage of, and by every party to, those wars. To these encroachments and inju- | ries, our regard for peace was finally forced to yield. In the war to which at length we became a party, our whole coast, from St. Croix to the Mississippi, was either invaded or menaced with invasion; and in many parts, with a strong, imposing force, both land and naval. In those parts where the population was most dense, the pressure was comparatively light; but there was scarcely a harbor or city, or any of our great inlets, which could be considered secure. New York and Philadelphia were eminently exposed, the then existing works not being sufficient for their protection. The same remark is applicable, in a certain extent, to the cities eastward of the former; and as to the condition of the whole country southward of the latter, the events which marked the war are too recent to require detail. Our armies and navy signalized themselves in every quarter where they had occasion to meet their gallant foe, and the militia voluntarily flew to their aid, with a patriotism, and fought with a bravery, which exalted the reputation of their Government and country, and which did them the highest honor. In whatever direction the enemy chose to move with their squadrons and to land their troops, our fortifications, where any existed, presented but little obstacle to them. They passed those works without difficulty. Their squadrons, in fact, annoyed our whole coast, not of the sea only, but every bay and great river throughout its whole extent. In entering those inlets and sailing up them with a small force, the effect was disastrous, since it never failed to draw out the whole population on each side, and to keep it in the field while the squadron remained there. The expense attending this species of defence, with the exposure of the inhabitants, and the waste of property, may readily be conceived.*

The occurrences which preceded the war, and those which attended it, were alike replete with useful instruction as to our future policy. Those which mark the first epoch, demonstrate clearly, that, in the wars of other powers, we can rely only on force for the protection of our neutral rights. Those of the second demonstrate, with equal certainty, that, in any war in which we may be engaged hereafter, with a strong naval power, the expense, waste, and other calamities, attending it, considering the vast extent of our maritime frontier, cannot fail, unless it be defended by adequate fortifications and a suitable naval force, to correspond with those which were experienced in the late war.

Two great objects are therefore to be regarded in the establishment of an adequate naval force: The first, to prevent war, so far as it may be practicable; the second, to diminish its calamities, when it may

* Railroads, and the volunteer system, have altered all this. *The fear of invasion, once so imposing, is now a procession that has passed by; and all that we could ask of a foreign

enemy now, would be to come ashore.

The Navy is the arm from which our Government will always derive most aid in support of our neutral rights. Every power engaged in war will know the strength of our naval force, the number of our ships of each class, their condition, and the promptitude with which we may bring them into service, and will pay due consideration to that argument. Justice will always have great weight in the Cabinets of Europe; but, in long and destructive wars, exigencies often occur which press so vitally on them, that, unless the argument of force is brought to its aid, it will be disregarded. Our land forces will always perform their duty in the event of war; but they must perform it on the land. Our Navy is the arm which must be principally relied on for the annoyance of the commerce of the enemy, and for the protection of our own; and also, by co-operation with the land forces, for the defence of the country. Capable of moving in any and every direction, it possesses the faculty, even when remote from our coast, of extending its aid to every interest on which the security and welfare of our Union depend. Annoying the commerce of the enemy, and menacing, in turn, its coast, provided the force on each side is nearly equally balanced, it will draw its squadrons from our own; and, in case of invasion by a powerful adversary, by a land and naval force, which is always to be anticipated, and ought to be provided against, our Navy may, by like co-operation with our land forces, render essential aid in protecting our interior from incursion and depredation.

The great object, in the event of war, is to stop the enemy at the coast. If this is done, our cities, and whole interior, will be secure. For the accomprincipally relied on. By placing strong works near plishment of this object, our fortifications must be the mouths of our great inlets, in such positions as to command the entrance into them, as may be done in

FEBRUARY, 1824.]

Surveys for Roads and Canals.

[H. OF R.

Before the question was taken, however, Mr. SAUNDERS moved that the bill be recommitted to the Committee on Roads and Canals, with instructions "to designate such roads and canals of a national importance in a commercial or military point of view, or necessary for the transportation of the public mail, as may be and reported upon." deemed proper and expedient to have surveyed

And the question being on recommitment, it was then put on the motion of Mr. SAUNDERS, to recommit the bill with instructions, and the yeas and nays stood-yeas 38, nays 116.

The question recurring on Mr. RANDOLPH'S motion for indefinite postponement, it was decided by yeas and nays-yeas 36, nays 113. So the House refused to postpone the bill.

The question was then put on engrossing the bill for a third reading-and the yeas and nays being called for by Mr. McCoy, stood as follows:

many instances, it will be difficult, if not impossible, for ships to pass them, especially if other precautions, and particularly that of steam-batteries, are resorted to, in their aid. In the wars between other powers, into which we may be drawn in support of our neutral rights, it cannot be doubted that this defence would be adequate to the purpose intended by it; nor can it be doubted that the knowledge that such works existed, would form a strong motive, with any power, not to invade our rights, and thereby contribute essentially to prevent war. There are, it is admitted, some entrances into our interior, which are of such vast extent, that it would be utterly impossible for any works, however extensive, or well posted, to command them. Of this class, the Chesapeake Bay, which is an arm of the sea, may be given as an example. But, in my judgment, even this bay may be defended against any power with whom we may be involved in war as a third party, in the defence of our neutral rights. By erecting strong works at the mouth of James River, on both sides, near the Capes, as we are now doing, and at Old Point Comfort and the Rip Raps, and connecting those works together Allen of Tennessee, Allison, Bailey, Baylies, J. S. YEAS.-Messrs. Abbot, Alexander of Tennessee, by chains, whenever the enemy's force appeared, placing in the rear some large ships and steam-batte- Barbour, Bartley, Beecher, Blair, Breck, Brent, ries, the passage up the river would be rendered im- Brown, Campbell of Ohio, Carter, Cassedy, Condict, Cook, Crowninshield, Cushman, Cuthbert, Durfee, practicable. This guard would also tend to protect the whole country bordering on the bay, and rivers Dwight, Eddy, Edwards of Pennsylvania, Ellis, Faremptying into it; as the hazard would be too great Govan, Gurley, Hamilton, Harris, Hayden, Hemprelly, Forward, Forsyth, Fuller, Garrison, Gazlay, for the enemy, however strong his naval force, to ascend the bay, and leave such a naval force hill, Henry, Herkimer, Holcombe, Houston, Ingham, behind; since, in the event of a storm, whereby his Isacks, Jennings, Johnson of Virginia, J. T. Johnson, vessels might be separated, or of a calm, the ships Little, Livingston, Locke, McArthur, McDuffie, McF. Johnson, Kent, Kremer, Lawrence, Lee, Letcher, and steam-batteries, behind the works, might rush forth and destroy them. It could only be in the event Kean, McKee, McKim, McLane of Delaware, Mcof an invasion by a great power, or a combination of Lean of Ohio, Martindale, Marvin, Matlack, Mercer, several powers, and by land as well as by naval forces, of Maryland, Moore of Kentucky, Moore of Alabama, Metcalfe, Miller, Mitchell of Pennsylvania, Mitchell that those works could be carried; and even then, they could not fail to retard the movement of the Neale, Nelson, Newton, Owen, Patterson of Pennenemy into the country, and to give time for the col-sylvania Patterson of Ohio, Plumer of Pennsylvania, lection of our regular troops, militia, and volunteers, Ross, Sandford, Scott, Sloane, Wm. Smith, Spence, Poinsett, Prince, Rankin, Reynolds, Rich, Rogers, to that point, and thereby contribute essentially to Standefer, J. Stephenson, Stewart, Storrs, Strong, his ultimate defeat and expulsion from our territory. Under a strong impression, that a Peace Establish- Swan, Test, Thompson of Kentucky, Tod, Trimble, ment of our Navy is connected with the possible event Udree, Vance of North Carolina, Vance of Ohio, of war, and that the naval force intended for either Vinton, Warfield, Wayne, Webster, Whittlesey, state, however small it may be, is connected with the White, Wickliffe, James Wilson, Henry Wilson, and general system of public defence, I have thought it proper, in communicating this report, to submit these remarks on the whole subject.

JAMES MONROE.

WASHINGTON, January 30, 1824.

Wilson of Ohio-115.

Massachusetts, Archer, Barber of Connecticut, P. P.
NAYS.-Messrs. Alexander of Virginia, Allen of
Barbour, Bartlett, Bassett, Bradley, Buck, Burleigh,
Burton, Cady, Cambreleng, Campbell of South Car-
olina, Cary, Clark, Cobb, Collins, Conner, Crafts,

The Message was referred to the Committee Craig, Culpeper, Day, Dwinell, Eaton, Edwards of on Naval Affairs.

TUESDAY, February 10.

Surveys for Roads and Canals. The House then resumed the consideration of the report of the Committee of the Whole, on the bill to obtain the necessary plans, estimates, &c., in relation to roads and canals.

Mr. FLOYD moved to strike out the enacting clause of the bill-but, at the suggestion of Mr. RANDOLPH, withdrew the motion; and

Mr. RANDOLPH moved that the consideration of the bill be indefinitely postponed; and, on his motion, the ayes and noes were ordered to be taken upon it.

North Carolina, Findlay, Floyd, Foot of Connecticut, Foote of New York, Frost, Garnett, Gatlin, Gist, Hall, Harvey, Herrick, Hobart, Hogeboom, Hooks, Jenkins, Kidder, Lathrop, Leftwich, Lincoln, Litchfield, Livermore, Long, Longfellow, McCoy, Mangum, Mallary, Markley, Matson, Plumer of New Hampshire, Randolph, Reed, Richards, Rives, Saunders, Sharpe, Sibley, Arthur Smith, Alexander Smyth, Spaight, Sterling, A. Stevenson, Stoddard, Taylor, Ten Eyck, Thompson of Georgia, Tomlinson, Tracy, Tucker of Virginia, Tucker of South Carolina, Tyson, Van Rensselaer, Van Wyck, Whipple, Whitman, Williams of New York, Williams of Virginia, Williams of North Carolina, Wilson of South Carolina, Wood, and Woods-86.

To-morrow was then assigned for the third reading of the said bill.

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The Tariff Bill. Mr. Top then moved that the House go into Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, with a view to take up the bill for a revision of the tariff.

Mr. RANDOLPH rose, and said: "Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof "—I hope the House will do no such thing.

Mr. HAMILTON was going on with some remarks, bearing in part on the merits of the bill, when Mr. TAYLOR called him to order-and the Chair decided that he was out of order, on a question merely to take up the bill, to go into

its merits.

The question was then put on Mr. ToD's motion, and carried-ayes 93, noes 82.

The House accordingly went into Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, Mr. CONDICT in the chair; and, on motion of Mr. TOD, took up the tariff bill; which was read, in part, at the Clerk's table.

Some progress having been made in the reading

On motion of Mr. WEBSTER, the committee rose, reported progress, and had leave to sit again.

WEDNESDAY, February 11.

The Tariff Bill.

On motion of Mr. Top, the House went into Committee of the Whole, (Mr. CONDICT in the chair,) on the bill to amend the several acts for imposing duties on imports.

Mr. ToD said, that the subject of protecting domestic manufactures, by duties on imports, had been so often discussed, that a particular explanation on the part of the committee, would not probably be wanted. That he should state the details and objects of the bill, and some of the reasons in their favor, as briefly as possible. That there was nothing here proposed that was new in principle-nothing but to extend and equalize a system which experience had shown to be most beneficial, and to give to other departments of domestic industry, and other oppressed portions of the community, something of that protection which our laws had so liberally and wisely given to the cultivators of cotton, of sugar, and to all the interests of navigation. One object of the bill, said Mr. T., is, that, as to some certain manufactured articles, the raw materials of which exist in abundance at home, we should, by legislative provision, give to our own workmen, not the exclusive supply and command of even our own market, but barely give them a part of the business of furnishing our own people with the plain, rough necessaries of life. That another object of equal importance was that, instead of continuing to support the agriculturists of Europe in almost every thing, we may be compelled, by using more home manufactured articles, to give to the farmers of our own country some market for their products. And another object, not inferior in magnitude to either of the former two, was, to

[FEBRUARY, 1824.

give to the country that strength and power which arises from possessing, within itself, the means of defence, and to rescue it from the danger and disgrace of habitual reliance upon foreign nations for the common daily necessaries of life.

tinct classes of articles. One class is that upon That the duties proposed were upon two dissilks, linens, cutlery, spices, and some other things of less importance, most of which are not necessaries by any means, and which, with few exceptions, do not much interfere with any home production, or with any manufacture which the country is now prepared for. That most of these identical increase recommended by the Secrearticles were charged, in the bill, with the tary of the Treasury-this for the purpose of revenue chiefly, and to make up to the Government the deficiencies which may probably be occasioned by checking the excessive importa

tion of other articles-but, that the important duties proposed in the bill were for the purposes of protection, and were upon iron, hemp, lead, glass, wool, and woollen goods.

committee with a debate upon the question, Mr. T. said he was not going to trouble the whether our country ought to be dependent upon the monarchies of Europe for those necessary articles, if such dependence can be avoided. Upon that matter he was content to take the opinion of the committee, such as it was already, and would go on to ask whether such dependence could be avoided.

It is known that almost every State in the Union is capable of producing iron sufficient for the supply of its own population, and many of them a great deal more; and that this can be effected without taking a single hand from any profitable employment, and without any stimulous, except that of a market.

As to hemp, it was not extravagant to say, that, of first-rate hemp land, for every one acre which can be found, throughout all Europe, we have, perhaps, ten acres cleared, and not applicable to any other profitable cultivation. That in lead, we may challenge the globe, having not mines only, but whole territories of the richest ore, perfectly inexhaustible, and this in the vicinity of navigable waters. That, of wool, it was certain that not only every State, but every district of every State, was capable of produ cing enough, at least, for all our own uses. That of glass, the materials are every where. If Providence, said Mr. T., meant any country to be independent of others for the means of subsistence, that country is ours. The question then comes, Have our people industry and spirit enough to make use of these natural advantages of the country? The only effectual protection, generally, which our manufacturers ever had, was by the late war. Thus, possessing by accident what other nations give by legislation to their own people, the command of the home market, our workmen made a progress that never was exceeded any where. Iron was fabricated to an extent wanting but about three

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