104 OF THE FEDERAL CONVENTION. Mr. Wilson moved that the judicial be appointed by the executive, instead of the national legislature. Mr. Madison opposed the motion, and inclined to think that the executive ought by no means to make the appointments, but rather that branch of the legislature called the senatorial; and moves that the words, of the appointment of the legislature, be expunged. Carried by 8 states-against it 2. The remaining part of the resolve postponed. The 12th resolve agreed to without debate. The 15th or last resolve, That the amendment which shall be offered to the confederation, ought at a proper time or times after the approbation of congress to be submitted to an assembly or assemblies of representatives, recommended by the several legislatures, to be expressly chosen by the people, to consider and decide thereon, was taken into consideration. Mr. Madison endeavored to enforce the necessity of this resolve-because the new national constitution ought to have the highest source of authority, at least paramount to the powers of the respective constitutions of the states-points out the mischiefs that have arisen in the old confederation, which depends upon no higher authority than the confirmation of an ordinary act of a legislature –Instances the law operation of treaties, when contravened by any antecedent acts of a particular state. Mr. King supposes, that as the people have tacitly agreed to a federal government, that therefore the legislature in every state have a right to confirm any alterations or amendments in it—a convention in each state to approve of a new government he supposes however the most eligible. Mr. Wilson is of opinion, that the people by a con vention are the only power that can ratify the proposed system of the new government. It is possible that not all the states, nay, that not even a majority, will immediately come into the measure ; but such as do ratify it will be immediately bound by it, and others as they may from time to time accede to it. Question put for postponement of this resolve. 7 states for postponment--s against it. Question on the 9th resolve to strike out the words, and of inferior tribunals. Carried by 5 states against 4--2 states divided, of which last number New-York was one. Mr. Wilson then moved, that the national legislature shall have the authority to appoint inferior tribunals, be added to the resolve. Carried by 7 states against 3. New-York divided, [N. B. Mr. Lansing from New-York was prevented by sickness from attending this day.] Adjourned to to-morrow morning. WEDNESDAY, JUNE 6th, 1787. Met pursuant to adjournment. Mr. Pinkney moved (pursuant to a standing order for re-consideration) that in the 4th resolve, the words by the people, be expunged, and the words by the legislature, be inserted. Mr. Gerry. If the national legislature are appointed by the state legislatures, demagogues and corrupt members will creep in. Mr. Wilson is of opinion that the national legislativo powers ought to flow immediately from the people, so as to contain all their understanding, and to be an exact transcript of their minds. He observed that the people had already parted with as much of their power as was necessary, to form on its basis a perfect government; and the particular states must part with such a portion of it as to make the present national government, adequate to their peace and the security of their liberties. He admitted, that the state governments would probably be rivals and opposers of the national government. Mr. Mason observed that the national legislature, as to one branch, ought to be elected by the people; because the objects of their legislation will not be on states, but on individual persons. Mr. Dickinson is for combining the state and national legislatures in the same views and measures, and that this object can only be effected by the national legislature flowing from the state legislatures. Mr. Read is of opinion, that the state governments must sooner or later be at an end, and that therefore we must make the present national government as perfect as possible. Mr. Madison is of opinion, that when we agreed to the first resolve of having a national government, consisting of a supreme executive, judicial and legislative power, it was then intended to operate to the exclusion of a federal government, and the more extensive we made the basis, the greater probability of duration, happiness and good order. The question for the amendment was negatived, by 8 states against 3. New-York in the majority. On the 8th resolve, Mr. Wilson moved (in consequence of a vote to re-consider the question on the revisional powers vested in the executive) that there be added these words, with a convenient number of the national judicial. Upon debate, carried in the negative-3 states for and 8 against. New-York for the addition. Adjourned to to-morrow morning. THURSDAY, JUNE 7th, 1787. Met pursuant to adjournment. Mr. Rutledge moved to take into consideration the mode of electing the second branch of the national legislature. Mr. Dickinson thereupon moved, that the second branch of the national legislature be chosen by the legislatures of the individual states. He observed, that this mode will more intimately connect the state governments with the national legislature-it will also draw forth the first characters either as to family or talent, and that it ought to consist of a considerable number. Mr. Wilson against the motion, because the two branches thus constituted, cannot agree, they having different views and different sentiments. Mr. Dickinson is of opinion that the mode by him proposed, like the British house of lords and commons, whose powers flow from different sources, are mutual checks on each other, and will thus promote the real happiness and security of the country-a government thus established would harmonize the whole, and like the planetary system, the national council like the sun, would illuminate the whole-the planets revolving round it in perfect order; or like the union of several small streams, would at last form a respectable river, gently flowing to the sea, Mr. Wilson. The state governments ought to be preserved the freedom of the people and their internal good police depends on their existence in full vigor-but such a government can only answer local purposes That it is not possible a general government, as despotic as even that of the Roman emperors, could be adequate to the government of the whole without this distinction. He hoped that the national government would be independent of state governments, in order to make it vigorous, and therefore moved that the above resolution be postponed, and that the convention in its room adopt the following resolve: That the second branch of the national legislature be chosen by districts, to be formed for that purpose. Mr. Sherman supposes the election of the national legislature will be better vested in the state legislatures, than by the people, for by pursuing different objects, persons may be returned who have not one tenth of the votes. Mr. Gerry observed, that the great mercantile interest and of stockholders, is not provided for in any mode of election-they will however be better represented if the state legislatures choose the second branch. Question carried against the postponement-10 states against 1. Mr. Mason then spoke to the general question-observing on the propriety, that the second branch of the national legislature should flow from the legislature of each state, to prevent the encroachments on each other and to harmonize the whole. The question put on the first motion, and carrried unanimously. Adjourned to to-morrow morning. FRIDAY, JUNE 8, 1787. Met pursuant to adjournment-11 states. Mr. Pinkney moved, That the national legislature shall have the power of negativing all laws to be passed by the state legislatures which they may judge improper, in the room of the clause as it stood reported. He grounds his motion on the necessity of one supreme controlling power, and he considers this as the cornerstone of the present system; and hence the necessity of retrenching the state authorities in order to preserve the good government of the national council. Mr. Williamson against the motion. The national legislature ought to possess the power of negativing such laws only as will encroach on the national government. Mr. Madison wished that the line of jurisprudence could be drawn he would be for it—but upon reflection he finds it impossible, and therefore he is for the amend |