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4. That the principal part of the codfish brought into this harbor are caught along the shore, between Wood Island and Souris.

5. That it is not an unusual thing to see from eighty to a hundred sail of American fishing vessels hove to, fishing mackerel between this and Georgetown, many of whom fish on Sunday as much as on any other day. The number above mentioned are the vessels seen at one time, and by no means include the whole number of their vessels in the Straits. I could not make an estimate of the amount of fish taken by them, but judge it must pay them well to come here to fish, otherwise they would not continue to come.

6. That the Americans interfere with our boat hake-fishing, as the boats are dependent on the shore mackerel fishing for bait, and the Americans come in, throw large quantities of bait and glut the fish, so that they will not bite and the boats cannot get them. Complaints are also being continually made by the fishermen that the garbage and offal from the fish thrown out by the Americans injure the fishing. Now, also, by the use of set-lines for codfish and seines for mackerel, much larger quantities of fish are taken by the Americans than formerly. 7. That by having the right to land their fish here and transship them, and refitting, I believe the Americans are enabled to make an additional trip in the season, which they would be unable to do were they obliged to take the fish home in their own vessels. They can also watch and take advantage of the fluctuations in the mackerel markets, which are very variable.

SAMUEL PROWSE.

Sworn to at Murray Harbor, in Kings County, Prince Edward Island, this 30th day of July, A. D. 1877, before me.

DOMINION OF CANADA,

MALCOLM MACFADYEN,
J. P. for Kings County.

No. 28.

Province of Prince Edward Island, Kings County, to wit:

I, DANIEL MCPHEE, of Big Pond, in Lot Forty-five, in Kings County, in Prince Edward Island, fisherman, make oath and say:

1. That I have personally been engaged in the mackerel and cod fishing in the Gulf of Saint Lawrence since the year 1863.

2. That in the year 1863 I commenced mackerel-fishing in the American vessel Messina, and that during that year we fished in the Bay Chaleur, and took home with us six hundred barrels of mackerel during the fishing-season of that year, one-third of which quantity, I would say, was caught within three miles of the shore.

3. That during that season, and up till about the year 1870, there were about 500 American vessels in the Gulf of Saint Lawrence engaged in the mackerel-fishery.

4. That during the years intervening between the years 1863 and 1870, my opinion is that the average catch of mackerel per season would be 500 barrels per vessel.

5. That from my experience and from my personal observation, I would say that one-half of the total quantity of mackerel caught by the American fishing-fleet has been caught within three miles of the shore.

6. That during the years 1867 and 1868, I would say that 100 of the American vessels fishing in the Gulf of Saint Lawrence took out a license, paying fifty cents per ton for the privilege of fishing within the three-mile limits.

7. That those vessels that did not take a license (and which were by

far the greater number), if they were fishing within the limits, would hoist sail when they saw a Canadian cutter coming, and go outside, wait till the cntter had passed, and then go back within the limits and resume the fishing again. That the cutters did not, to any appreciable extent, prevent the fishing within the limits.

8. Our usual custom was to go in close to the shore in fleets of 50 to 60, heave our bait and then drift off, taking thefish with us. If we saw a boat from the shore catching mackerel, we would lee-bow them, that is, we would go close on to her, heave our bait and draw off the mack. erel; the boat would then have to wait for another school of mackerel. This would often occur and in every case would spoil the catch of the boat.

9. That during the last two or three years the number of American vessels engaged in the mackerel-fishery in the gulf has not been so numerous as in previous years, owing, no doubt, to the fact that the mackerel have not, during these last two or three years, frequented our coasts in such numbers as in previous years. This year, however, the prospects are good for mackerel-fishing.

10. That about 200 of the American vessels get their bait on the Nova Scotian coast, and in my opinion, without the bait obtained there they could not carry on the fishing.

11. That the Americans also take large quantities of herring from our coasts, about 10,000 barrels from the Magdalen Islands a year, all of which would be caught close up to the shore. There are 40 American vessels engaged at Fortune Bay, in Newfoundland, in prosecuting the herring-fishery, averaging about 500 barrels per season per vessel, all of which are caught close to the shore. There is also a fleet of 20 American vessels that fish at Bay of Islands in the fall of the year, averaging 700 barrels per vessel per season, which are all caught well within the three-mile limit. Then there is also a fleet of 40 American vessels which fish off Grand Manan. They average 350 barrels of herring per vessel, which are all caught close to the shore.

12. That the mackerel on their arrival in the gulf first strike the Magdalen Islands, then across over to the lower Canadian shore, Seven Islands, and Bay Chaleurs, and then come down along the west shore, keeping close inshore. They then strike across to North Cape, in Prince Edward Island, and thence hugging the shore closly move along toward East Point.

13. That, in my opinion, if the Americans were prevented altogether from fishing within the three-mile limit, they would not frequent the gulf at all on account of the great risk they would run in getting a fare at all outside that limit.

DANIEL MCPHEE.

Sworn to at Souris, in Kings County, in Prince Edward Island, this twenty-sixth day of June, A. D. 1877, before me.

No. 29.

JAMES R. MCLEAN,
J. P. for Kings County.

I, MALCOM MCFADYEN, of Murray Harbor, South, in Kings County, Prince Edward Island, merchant and fish dealer, make oath and say:

1. That for the last ten years I have been actively connected with the fishing business, and I have had some experience in it for a long time. One year I was myself fishing on the Labrador coast, and I have been nine years buying, curing, and trading in fish at Murray Harbor.

2. That out of this harbor there are about forty boats and six or seven schooners engaged in fishing. The number of boats nas increased very much. The boats are now larger than they used to be, and are decked boats. The cause of the increase is that fishermen have prospered here during the last ten years. There is a class of people who go in for fishing and nothing else. They live better than those who go in for both farming and fishing, but fishing is a help to them all round.

3. That these boats carry on an average about four men each as crew; that would be clear of the men employed on shore, who here are about thirty in number.

4. That these forty boats catch, in the aggregate, about three thousand quintals of codfish and four thousand quintals of hake, in the season, on an average. Codfish are worth about three dollars and hake two dollars a quintal. There are about seven thousand pounds of sounds in these, the price of which varies from thirty-five cents to one dollar a pound. The oil amounts to about three thousand five hundred gallons, worth, all round, forty cents a gallon. The catch of mackerel here varies from three to six hundred barrels in the season. The fishermen do not go into mackerel-fishing so much as into cod fishing. There are also a few herring taken on this shore for bait.

5. That the codfish are caught along the shore and on the Banks, principally on Fisherman's Bank. They are all caught in the Straits. The mackerel are caught along shore.

6. That of late years I should estimate the number of American vessels fishing in the Straits at about two hundred sail. They fish their mackerel principally along the shore, and the codfish on the Banks. There are not many of them cod-fishing here, they are mostly mackerel fishermen. Some of them make two trips to the Straits, transshipping the first trip at the Gut of Canso. I should average their mackerel catch in the Straits at about three hundred barrels to a vessel.

7. That the American fishermen do a very great injury to our boatfishing. They come up among our boats, when the latter are getting mackerel, and throw large quantities of bait and glut the mackerel, so that the fish stop biting and the boats can get no more of them. This is what is called lee bowing. The Americans also clean their fish on the grounds, and this practice does great harm. In cod-cleaning the offal is thrown overboard, and I believe the fish eat the offal and bones, and the water is poisoned around. At any rate, the fish are driven away from the grounds when the offal is thrown overboard. I should say the mackerel offal has the same effect, but there is not so much of it.

8. That fishermen are all opposed to the coming of the Americans, on account of the harm the latter do to the fishing. The coming of the Americans is looked upon as the end of the good boat-fishing for the season. They also injure the morals of the fishermen, as they have no regard for Sunday or any other day. They also sometimes come on shore and break and destroy many things about our villages and shores. 9. That the lobster-fishery is now a large business here. There are a number of lobster-preserving factories on this island now. They are caught along the shore in three or four fathoms of water, or about half a mile from the shore. I do not know that there are any Americans, except one in Souris, engaged in this business here at the present time, but there are a good many of them along the Nova Scotia shore. This fishery everywhere is all carried on and the lobsters caught close to the shore.

10. That a good many of the American cod-fishermen get bait at the Magdalen Islauds and ice at Causo. They have not bait on their own

shores for this fishery, and are obliged to depend on our shores for their codfish-bait, so that their cod-fishery is dependent on our herring fisheries for its existence. They go very extensively into the cod-fishery. They also get our herring, not only for bait but also to ship to Sweden and other parts of Europe. There were a lot of them at the Magdalens this spring getting herring for that purpose. They take the herring in seines and nets. The herring are caught right on the shore.

11. The seining at the Magdalens does a lot of harm, as there are such numbers of herring killed. The seines sometimes take up thousands of barrels, and only part of these can be cured. They are killed or smoth. ered in the seines, and the seines are finally tripped and the dead fish thrown away.

12. That at the Labrador I have seen the Americans seining for codfish. They also trawl for them very extensively. This is a very destructive way of fishing. In the spring of the year the trawls catch up the mother fish before they spawn, and millions of fish are lost in this way. The young cod taken on the trawls are also thrown away, as being too small for keeping. Numbers of the fish also get killed on the trawls and get knocked about. These also are thrown away. We receive little or

no benefit from these vessels in return for the injury they do us, as they do not trade here except for such things as they cannot get at home. We don't collect even anchorage dues from these vessels, although they get the benefit of our harbors and lights. They also get their wood and water on our coasts, without which they could not fish.

13. The value of the right of transshipment is a great deal to the Americans. It saves them a trip home, which would save them a month in the best of the fishing. That would represent a save in money of from five to eight hundred dollars a vessel. They can also refit here just as cheap as at home. It would generally be an advantage, as enabling them to get their fish into market early, and thus catch the good early markets. They transship to a large extent at Canso. Only for this right to transship the last trip to the gulf would be lost, as they would not be able to go home and return soon enough to make it.

14. That at this factory or stage we put up from one hundred and fifty to two hundred thousand cans of lobsters in the season, the net value of which is about twelve dollars and one-half a hundred. At retail they are sold for much more than that.

MALCOLM MACFADYEN.

Sworn to at Murray Harbor, in King's County, Prince Edward Island, this 30th day of July, A. D. 1877, before me, the erasures and interlineations opposite my initials having been first made.

SAMUEL PROWSE,

A Justice of the Peace for Prince Edward Island.

No. 30.

I, CHARLES W. DUNN, of Murray Harbor, in King's County, Prince Edward Island, fisherman, make oath and say:

1. That I have been engaged in fishing for about twenty-eight years, winter and summer, in both boats and vessels, having fished in the cod fishing on the Banks for about seven winters. I have also fished mackerel in this gulf with the Americans from the summer of 1868 till 1871, and also in the halibut fishery on these coasts.

2. That there are all of forty sail of boats engaged in fishing off this harbor, and there have been a number added to them in the last two years

since I have been here. These boats are decked boats, and carry crews of four and five men each.

3. That these boats are all engaged in cod and hake fishing, and do not go in for mackerel fishing except for bait. These fish are all caught along the coasts, some on this shore and some on the Nova Scotia shore. 4. That I was down here in the gulf mackerel fishing, in the schooner William T. Merchant, of Gloucester, United States, for one whole season-five months and four days. That was in 1868. We took 900 barrels of mackerel in her. She was sixty-seven tons burden, and carried fifteen bands.

5. That in 1869 I was in the Ada L. Harris, of the same port, fishing, for two months or about half the mackerel season, in the gulf. We took out 500 barrels of mackerel. She was registered at forty-eight

tons, and carried twelve hands.

6. That in 1870 I was about two months and a half fishing in the gulf, in the Reunion, during which time we got 430 barrels of mackerel. She was seventy-four tous, and carried fifteen hands.

7. That in 1871 I was in the Rambler for eight weeks fishing in the gulf. We took out 280 barrels of mackerel. We came in the gulf late that season. She was sixty-three tons, and that time carried thirteen hands.

8. That fully three-quarters of the fish taken in these schooners were taken close to the shore, or within three miles along this island, Miscou, Bay Chaleur, the Magdalens, and other places on the British coasts. Taking the season through, the inshore fishing is the best. I believe that it would not be at all worth while to fit out for this gulf, if the vessels were not allowed to fish inshore.

9. That I was two seasons or parts of seasons seining on the American shore for mackerel. One of these seasons I was there for seven weeks, and we only got one hundred and twenty barrels. We then came down into this bay, at the end of the season, and caught two hundred and eighty barrels. The second year I was out there we did not do much. The American shore is not such good fishing ground as the gulf. On their shore the hookers have little or no chance, as the seiners have broken up the fishing.

10. That I have been cod-fishing for seven or eight winters on George's and the Grand Banks in American vessels. We used to trawl, and have taken two hundred and twenty thousand pounds of salt fish in three months. The bait we used to use were all herring brought from the Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, and other British shores. These fish are taken fresh and frozen, and kept in ice. There is no bait to be had on the American shores, except a few herring near Eastport, and some porgies, but those last are no good except a few for the George's fishing. All this fishing for codfish is entirely dependent on the Dominion and Newfoundland herring-fisheries, and without these herring the cod-fishery could not be carried on, and would have to be given up. The ice is got on the American shore first, and then is got on the Nova Scotia shore. There is a large fleet of American vessels engaged in the codfishing.

11. That there is also a fleet of some eighty or ninety sail of Americans trawling for halibut on these coasts. There are quantities of halibut caught at Boone Bay, right round Anticosti; up the Quebec River, near and above Seven Islands, up as far as Trinity Bay. These are all caught close to shore in three or four fathoms of water. At Anticosti we could often see the halibut on the bottom when we were trawling. This would be about two or three hundred yards from shore. I have

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