longer they are kept in the holds of vessels. The pickle is apt to sour or run off, in which latter case the fish rust, and they get knocked about by the tossing of the ship, and they thus become of an inferior quality by the time they get to market, and command smaller prices.

17. That I have fished for herring at the Magdalen Islands for four or five springs, and there has always been a large number of American schooners fishing herring there. They seine the herring, catching large. quantities. They send a great many of these to Sweden and Norway and the West Indies, besides to the United States. At the Magdalen Islands they fish right inshore; in fact they drag the seines to the shore. 18. That in my opinion the American plan of seining is injurious to the mackerel and other fishing, as they only keep the good large fish, and throw the small ones and the other kinds of fish overboard, and they are destroyed.

19. That the mackerel strike about the Magdalen Islands first in the spring, and then they strike down toward Bay Chaleur, and then to North Cape of this island. At the Magdalen Islands they are caught in nets in the spring, and a great many Americans catch them there. The Americans know all about the way the fish strike, and they follow them as the fish go from place to place.

JOHN R. MCDONALD.

Sworn to at French River, in New London, in Queen's County, in Prince Edward Island, this 12th day of July, A. D. 1877, before me. JOHN SHARPE, Justice of the Peace.

No. 34.

I,COLIN MCKENZIE, of French River, in New London, Queen's County, Prince Edward Island, farmer and fisherman, make oath and say:

1. That I have been engaged in fishing, for twelve years, fishing off the north side of this island, in both boats and schooners, and have fished herring in the spring at the Magdalen Islands, and also on the north coast of Newfoundland. I have been dealing in fish, and had a good opportunity to see the fishing there.

2. That there are over one hundred boats fishing out of this harbor, and off the shores in this neighborhood. Four years ago there were not half so many as there are now, and the number is still increasing fast. The boats are of a superior quality in every respect to what they were four years ago. The capital invested in boats has more than doubled within the same time. There are now about twenty fishing stages and more built for carrying on the fishing business, and six years ago there were only one or two.

3. That the boats carry crews of four men each, on an average, and there are three men to every four boats employed as stage men; that is, not reckoning the coopers and others employed on shore. The boats also furnish employment to the vessels in the carrying trade during the dull freight season. There is also a lot of money put in circulation through the country, which creates a trade for the country about the stages.

4. That the boats, on an average, catch about one hundred barrels of mackerel each during the season, worth about one thousand dollars. As soon as the mackerel are shipped we can draw and get the cash for them.

5. That I should say that one reason the boats are increasing in number is that good fishermen can now be obtained. Another reason is

that there is now a surplus population growing up, who have no land, and take to fishing for employment. The chief reason for the increase is that the business is found to pay.

6. That the boats along this part of the island catch large quantities of codfish before the mackerel season comes on, but the principal part of the boats leave off cod-fishing when the mackerel come. If followed up here, the cod fishing would be valuable.

7. That there are considerable quantities of herring caught about here in the spring, and if people went into herring-fishing they might get as many herring as they wanted. We get herring also down at the Magdalen Islands. The herring are used for bait during the mackerel season, and also for home use. Each boat, on an average, wants about twenty barrels of herring for bait, during the season.

8. That nearly all the mackerel and all the herring taken by the boats are caught inshore; that is, within three miles of the coast line. About half the codfish are caught within the same distance from the shore.

9. That I have fished in schooners belonging to this island for several seasons. That I fished in a schooner called the Garland about twelve years ago, a schooner of about fifty tons burden and carrying eight hands. We fished in her off this island for the whole season, and got at least three hundred barrels of mackerel. Most of these fish were caught inshore.

10. That I fished for a season in the schooner Hannah, of this island, also of about fifty tons burden and carrying eight hands. We fished off this island; that was about eight years ago. We caught about three hundred barrels of mackerel in her, the greater part of which were caught close to the shore.

11. That I fished, about seven years ago, for a couple of seasons on board the Miunie R., carrying nine hands. In her we fished along the island shore and up the Bay Chaleur, and caught about two hundred and eighty barrels each year, but we did not fit out till nearly the first of August. In all these vessels we traded along through the spring, and did not fit out for fishing till late. Every year we fished I noticed that we used to fish closer to the shore, which I consider shows the mackerel are working closer to the land.

12. That during the seasons I was fishing in schooners there were large fleets of American fishermen fishing in the gulf. They used mostly to fish within three miles of the shore, especially during the last two years I was out. I should say that at least two-thirds of their catch of mackerel were caught inshore. I have seen some of their vessels take their entire loads close inshore, never going off.

13. That, taking one year with another, for the last eight or ten years there have been fleets of American schooners fishing in this gulf, of about four hundred sail each year. For the last two years they have not been so many; the reason for that is that they have had good fishing on their own shores in those two years, which they do not often have. During the last two years I should not think there were more than three hundred of them in the bay.

14. That the American schooners often interfere with the boats, by coming in, throwing bait, and drifting away, taking the fish with them. They, in fact, break up the boat fishing to some extent. Their coming is looked upon as an injury to the boats; fishermen would sooner not see them coming. When the boats are lying at anchor getting fish, the vessels drift down and lee-bow the boats, spoiling their fishing for that time.

15. That I was down at the Magdalen Islands some years ago, herring

fishing, and there were a hundred sail of American fishing vessels getting berring there. They would take on an average eight hundred barrels each; they ship them away to the West Indies and to other places. The herring there are all caught in the bays and harbors, and are caught with seines, which they often drag to shore. That fishery is valuable to the Americans, as they will get large returns for small outlay, and many of their cod fishermen take their bait at the Magdalen Islands.

16. That I have been getting herring at Newfoundland and have seen large numbers of American vessels fishing there. They fish there all winter. They freeze large quantities of the herring caught there for bait for their George's fishing-fleet; in fact, Newfoundland supplies nearly all the bait for their George's fishing.

17. That in the spring nearly all the mackerel coming here, come by Cape North and through the Gut of Canso, and then they strike the Magdalenes; and the herring come in the same way. From the Magdalenes the herring and mackerel strike up for Bay Chaleurs and for the coasts of this island and for Anticosti, and toward fall both mackerel and herring work back again in the opposite direction. The American fishermen know all about this habit of the fish, and follow them as they swim, and catch them at the different shores.

18. That I am of opinion that, for some years back, it would not pay the schooners to fit out for the gulf fishing if they were prohibited from fishing within three miles of the shore, that is, for herring and mackerel. 19. That when the cutters were about they used to frighten off the American schooners to a large extent. I have seen them here and in the Bay Chalears have to clear out when the cutter was coming, even when they were getting good fishing. The reason they were not kept off altogether was that there were not enough cutters to watch the coast.

20. That I consider the right to land here, transship, and refit is very valuable to the Americans, as they would save a fortnight each trip, right in the heart of the fishing season, which would amount, in a great many cases, to a trip saved in the season. They are enabled, owing to having the right to transship, to take advantage of favorable prices in the fish-market, which is very fluctuating. Besides that, by transshipping, they can get their fish into market in better order than if they kept them on board their own vessels. The fish, by being kept in the holds of the vessels, are apt to lose pickle, and rust, and mackerel are fish that need repacking.

COLIN MCKENZIE.

Sworn to at French River, in New London, in Prince Edward Island, this 12th day of July, A. D. 1877, before me.

JOHN SHARPE,
Justice of the Peace.

No. 35.

I, ALPHONSO GILMAN, of Malpeque, in Prince County, Prince Edward Island, fisherman, make oath and say:

1. That I have been following the fishing for about seventeen years in both boats and schooners; that I have been engaged in fishing out of this island about six years, and out of the United States the rest of the time in schooners.

2. That out of Malpeque Harbor and on the shore there are about fifty boats of all sizes engaged in fishing, and the number has increased considerably during the last two years. These boats carry crews on an average of about four men to a boat; that the boats engaged in cod

fishing average about forty quintals a boat for the season, and the average catch of each boat engaged in mackerel-fishing, not reckoning dories, would, along here, be about thirty barrels.

3. That these fish caught by the boats are caught not further than three miles from the shore.

4. That, taking one year with another, there will be seven or eight hundred schooners engaged every year in fishing in the bay, of which about six hundred sail are Americans. These schooners generally fish around the Magdalen Islands, in the Bay Chaleur, in the bend of this island, around the East Point, around Margaree. In the bend of this island these schooners generally fish close inshore, and at the other places from ten miles out to the shore. Within the past ten years the greater part, over half of the mackerel taken by schooners, would be taken within three miles of the shore.

5. That I have fished in about twenty schooners, both island and American, and these schooners would average three hundred barrels for the season.

6. That the right to refit and transship here saves time to the Americans, as they can save about three weeks each trip by being able to land here and transship without having to take their fish home in their own vessels, and that would amount to a trip saved during the season. There is the further advantage that, by transshipping, they are able to take advantage of the markets for fish, which is a very variable market. 7. That when the mackerel first come in to the bay they generally come up toward Bay Chaleur, Gaspé, and round there, passing the Mag. dalen Islands on their way. It is up there that the American fleet generally goes first to catch fish.

8. That I am an American citizen, and have fished for years out of Boston, Gloucester, Camden, Frankfort, and Belfast, in the United States.

ALPHONSO GILMAN.

Sworn to at Malpeque, in Prince County, Prince Edward Island, this 13th day of July, A. D. 1877, before me.

H. S. MARSHALL, Justice of the Peace for Prince County, Prince Edward Island.

No. 36.

In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax under the Treaty of Washington.

I, E. MARSHALL, of the island of Anticosti, county of Saguenay, Province of Quebec, fisherman, make oath and say as follows:

Was born in the State of Maine, United States; have carried on the shore and vessel mackerel fishery for about thirty years, consecutively, till 1870; twenty-two years I spent in the shore and vessel mackerelfishery at Prince Edward Island; for six seasons previous was master of American fishing vessels in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, and from 1867 to 1870 was master of the S. G. Marshall, which was seized for supposed illegal fishing inshore in Gaspé Bay. The names of the vessels of which I was master were the Orelia, of C. C. Gazel, of Alexandria, Va.; Oasis, of Ingham, Mass.; Chance, of C. C. Duroc, of Boston (a seining vessel); and the S. G. Marshall, of Prince Edward Island.

1. The fishing by American schooners was very extensive from 1852 to '70. During that period the number of American vessels which have

visited the shores of the Gulf of St. Lawrence for fishing purposes, yearly, amounted from 300 to 500 sail. This I have seen with my own eyes. Each vessel having an average of 12 men for a crew. All these were mackerel-fishing. The places where the Americans fished most during that period were on the shores of Cape Breton, Prince Edward Island, New Brunswick, and on the shores of Bay of Chaleur, from Port Daniel to Dalhousie, and east, from Port Daniel to Bonaventure Island, in Gaspé Bay, and on the south shore of Gaspé, from Cape Rozier to Matane, and on the north shore from Groisie to Goodbout River. I have fished myself nearly every year in these places, and I never missed my voyage. 2. Each of these vessels has made good fares every season, and some of them have made two trips of mackerel. Each of these vessels has made yearly a voyage of about 400 barrels.

3. The Americans catch their mackerel with seines and hand lines. 4. My opinion is that codfish gurry should not be allowed to be thrown overboard on any fishing ground around the shores, because it injures the small fish and drives away the large fish. This is my experience. For instance, if we throw codfish gurry on a fishing ground in the night, we could not find a fish there in the morning.

5. Mackerel caught by the Americans during the period mentioned above, have all been taken inshore, with the exception of a few barrels. The mackerel which I caught myself were all taken inshore.

6. The inshore fishery is by far the most valuable for all kinds of fish. In fact there are only two places where fish are taken in any quantity outside; the Orphan's and Bradley Banks. But the Americans don't resort there.

7. When American vessels come to fish among the boats, they entice all the mackerel away; it is my experience; I have enticed mackerel away from the boats myself often. This is done by the Americans whenever they get the chance.

8. Most of the Americans are supplied with either purse or hauling seines. The hauling seines have been in use for the last forty years, and the purse seines for mackerel, for about fifteen years.

9. The fishing with hauling seines is all practiced from the shores, and the purse seine in deep and shoal water.

10. Within the last five or six years most of the mackerel are caught in the gulf with the seines.

11. The use of the hauling seine has been mostly practiced on our shores from Port Hood to Cape Chat, on the south shore, and Goodbout to Seven Islands, on the north shore. I have practiced seining for three years from Gaspé Basin to Goodbout and Matane, and I have done well. In eleven days I stocked $7,000 in Gaspé Basin, and I have seen at Goodbout, about twenty-three years ago, two American vessels loaded in one haul of the seine. The purse seines are mostly used now for mackerel.

12. I believe that the practice of seining is injurious to all kinds of fish, more especially to mackerel, because it destroys small and large fish.

13. The bait that the Americans use for taking cod and halibut, is all caught inshore or bought from the inhabitants at Anticosti and the north and south shores. Bait is taken with nets and seines.

14. Codfish, haddock, halibut, and pollock, are caught by American fishermen in inshore waters. And the same fish are also caught by the Canadian fishermen inshore.

15. The herring are all taken inshore, and is an important fishery. Four hundred barrels have been taken by the Americans at Fox Bay