places in the States for home consumption. There would be fifty sail of American down there at a time, and they are coming and going the whole time. GEORGE MCKENZIE. Sworn to, at French River, in New London, in Prince Edward Island, this 12th day of July, A. D. 1877, before me. JOHN SHARPE, No. 44. In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington. I, PETER PAINT, Sr., of Port Hawkesbury, in the county of Inverness, and Province of Nova Scotia, merchant, make oath and say as follows: 1. I have been for the past forty-five years dealing in fish and fishing. supplies, and I am acquainted with the fisheries in the Gulf of Saint Lawrence, but principally with those on the Nova Scotia shores, bordering on that gulf. I deal in all kinds of dry and pickled fish to the extent of $20,000 per annum. 2. I estimate that since I have been doing business as aforesaid, the American fishing-fleet in the Gulf of St. Lawrence has ranged from 400 to 800 sail each year. I have understood that there have been some years as high as 1,000 sail of mackerelers and cod fishermen. I have known of 150 cod fishing vessels and 600 sail of mackerel-catchers in a single season in the gulf. 3. The catch of mackerel per vessel is between four hundred and five hundred barrels each season, worth about $12 per barrel. The cod fishermen average about one thousand quintals per vessel each season, worth $5 per quintal. 4. The codfish are caught with hooks, and the mackerel principally with hooks. 5. I believe that the Americans injure our fishing grounds by throwing overboard offal and garbage and that the fish are driven away by this practice. 6: The Americans have always fished as near the shore, as they could, whether it was lawful for them to do so or not. The cutters kept them off to some extent between 1866 and 1871. 7. The inshore mackerel fishery is, in my opinion, more valuable than that outside. The herring fishery is carried on inshore altogether. I am of opinion that more than half the mackerel are caught inshore. 8. The American fishermen of late years are attempting to use seines in catching the mackerel in the Gulf of St. Lawrence. I consider this practice very injurious to the mackerel fishery, as it tends to break up the schools and drive away the fish. 9. I am not aware that the fish frequenting Canadian waters have increased or decreased to any great extent since the Treaty of Washing. ton. The mackerel were somewhat scarce in 1875 and 1876, but I have known them to be just as scarce several times since I have been doing business here, and they always came in plenty again in a year or two. The mackerel are coming in in large numbers, this year, and there is every prospect of a good catch, I believe. 10. I believe that the Americans handle and dress their mackerel better than our fishermen do, and for that reason they sometimes obtain a higher price for them in the American market. 11. It is certainly a very great advantage to the Americans to be allowed to land and transship their cargoes, as it enables them to make more trips and consequently catch more fish than they otherwise could. By means of this privilege they save about a fortnight each trip. I think it adds fifty per cent. to their catch when the fish are plenty. 12. It is much cheaper for the American cod-fishermen to buy their bait on our shores than to spend the time in catching it themselves. They consequently purchase almost all their bait from our merchants and fishermen. It would be utterly impossible for the Americans to carry on the cod and other deep-sea fisheries profitably without resorting to our shores and harbors for bait; nor could they carry on these fisheries profitably without obtaining ice to preserve their fresh bait, and other supplies on our shores. 13. The privilege of fishing in American waters I consider to be of no practical advantage to Canadians, and I never heard of Canadians availing themselves of this privilege. PETER PAINT, SR. The said Peter Paint was sworn to the truth of this affidavit at Port Hawkesbury, in the county of Inverness, this 25th day of July, A. D. 1877, before me. In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington. I, GEORGE C. LAWRENCE, of Port Hastings, in the county of Inverness, merchant, make oath and say as follows: 1. I have been engaged here and at Port Hood for the past fourteen year in a general fish trade, and have dealt in cod-fish, mackerel, and herring. I am carrying on a large fishing-business here now, and during the period named I have had good opportunities of watching the fishing business of the Gulf of Saint Lawrence and becoming familiar with it. 2. During the Reciprocity Treaty there were each year in the gulf about five hundred American vessels. These would average from sixty to seventy tons each, and their crews would number about fifteen men. They were engaged chiefly in taking mackerel, and cod-fish, and herring from the Magdalen Islands and Bay Chaleurs. The mackerel vessels in the gulf during the Reciprocity Treaty in the most favorable years would average about five hundred barrels of mackerel per season. 3. After the termination of the Reciprocity Treaty, the number of American vessels decreased on this coast, and, so far as I am able to give an opinion, their profits diminished after that time. During the past two or three years since the Washington Treaty the American mackerel fleet in the gulf has been somewhat smaller than in former years under the Reciprocity Treaty. The catch of mackerel has been smaller. I do not regard this as due to any permanent falling off in our mackerel fisheries, but merely accidental and temporary. I have reason to believe that the catch will be larger this year than for some years past, and I know no reason why our mackerel ground should not be as productive during the next eight years as heretofore. 4. The privilege of transshipping cargoes in our ports is a great advantage to American fishermen. I have known it to be done since the Washington Treaty. It enables the American vessels to make more trips, catch more fish, and increases the paying capacity of the enterprise. 5. It is a great advantage to American fishermen to be allowed to procure bait in our waters and ports, and from our fishermen. They could not carry on their cod-fishing successfully without it. The very fact that Americans in many cases buy the bait instead of catching it themselves is evidence that they find it more profitable to do so. 6. It is also an advantage to American fishermen to be allowed to resort to Canadian inshores for ice to preserve their bait and to supply themselves with other articles for outfit required in the business. 7. The privilege of fishing in American waters has so far, at least, not proved of any advantage to Canadian fishermen so far as I know. 8. Not nearly all the American fishing-vessels passing through the Straits of Canso are noted or reported. A great number pass through every year that have never been noted or reported at all. 9. The Newfoundland herring fleet from American ports go thither along the eastern side of Cape Breton instead of passing through the straits, and toward the latter part of the season large quantities of the most valuable mackerel are taken by Americans on the eastern shore of Cape Breton between Cape North and Louisburg, and thereabouts. 10. I do not consider the privileges derived by Canadians of sending fish into American markets free of duty as at all equivalent to the advantages which the Americans obtain under the Treaty of Washington of catching fish, getting bait, and transshipping in our waters and ports. GEO. C. LAWRENCE. Sworn to before me at Port Hastings, in the county of Inverness, this 25th day of July, 1877, before me. No. 46. W. M. CLOUGH, J. P. In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington. I, JAMES B. HADLEY, of Port Mulgrave, in the county of Guys. borough and Province of Nova Scotia, notary public, make oath and say as follows: 1. I have resided at the Strait of Canso since the year 1837. From that time until the year 1841 I was engaged in general trade and fishing business. After that I was collector of light duties and preventive and excise officer until the year 1848, after which year and until the year 1856 I was engaged in mercantile and fishing business. Since the year 1856 I have done business as a public notary. During the whole period since the year 1837 I have had a very extensive and complete knowl edge, both personally and otherwise, of the fishing business as carried on by the Americans in the waters on the coasts of Nova Scotia, the Eastern or Gulf coasts of New Brunswick and Quebec, at the Magdalen Islands and Anticosti. 2. That I am well acquainted with the different voyages that the Americans undertake in our waters for fishing purposes. From about the 20th of April to the 10th of May, the Americans pass through the Strait of Canso to the herring fishery at the Magdalen Islands. The next fishery, in point of time, was in former years the Labrador cod fishery; now, however, trawling for codfish comes next, upon which they enter, as soon as they can procure bait, which, with other supplies, they obtain on our coasts, especially at the Strait of Canso. From the 25th of June until the last of October they enter our waters to prosecute the mackerel fishery chiefly in the Gulf of Saint Lawrence. The number of American vessels fishing in our waters for mackerel has ranged in different years from one hundred and fifty to six hundred sail, the number of men in each vessel ranging from ten to eighteen. The principal places where the Americans fish for mackerel in the summer months are all over the Gulf of Saint Lawrence, off Pomquet Island, Port Hood, Prince Edward Island, in the Northumberland Straits, off Point Miscou, as far up as the Magdalen River, across to the Seven Islands, off and around Magdalen Islands, and in the fall from East Point and the Magdalen Islands and Island Brion, thence to Cape Saint Lawrence and Port Hood, and around the eastern shore of Cape Breton to Sydney Harbor. The trawling for codfish is done all around our shores from the first of May till the fall. They also carry on the herring fishery and cod and halibut fishery from Anticosti, as far north as Greenland and Labrador, on both shores; also at Bay of Islands, Bay Saint George, and Fortune Bay, the latter place being visited in the winter season. The number of vessels in the herring fishery at the Magdalen Islands alone, ranges from ten to seventy-five sail of American vessels. 3. The mackerel fleet take from four hundred to eight hundred barrels per vessel each season. The herring fleet would formerly take from six hundred to a thousand barrels in bulk each season, per vessel; latterly larger vessels are used in this fishery and a larger quantity taken. 4. The American fishermen carry on their fishery in our waters by the means of seining, trawling, and books. 5. Wherever trawling is prosecuted it is very destructive to the boat fishery. The Americans also injure our boat fishery or shore fishery by throwing over great quantities of bait. The fishes are also in some cases driven away by the quantity of garbage and offal thrown overboard by American vessels. Great destruction is also done to our fisheries by the Americans by the practice of seining. 6. In the prosecution of the mackerel fishery by far the greater portion is taken within three miles of the shore, and the mackerel fishing outside the three miles is of little or no value. The herrings are all taken within the harbors and bays of our coasts, and the trawling for codfish is also done within three miles of the shore. The privilege of coming within the three miles of the shore is of vital importance to the Americans, as all the best mackerel are taken close inshore to the very rocks. The outside fisheries would be of little importance or value to the Americans if they were kept outside the three-mile limit. It is for this reason that they have exposed themselves to so great risks in order to fish within the three miles, as they obtain so large a price for the mackerel caught inside in the fall of the year between Port Hood and Margaree, which used to bring from twenty to thirty dollars per barrel. 7. The Americans do great injury to our boat fishery by running in and "lee-bowing" the boats and taking away the fish from them into deep water by throwing bait. Their system of trawling for codfish tends to destroy the mother fish which are lying on the bottom iu a kind of stupid state just before they spawn. 8. The privilege of landing and drying their seines and nets and curing their fish is of great importance to the American fishermen. 9. It is also a valuable privilege to the Americans to be allowed to land and transship, or store their cargoes, by which means they are enabled to make three or four trips to the Gulf of St. Lawrence if the fish are plenty, whereas they could otherwise make only one or two trips by taking the fish home in their own bottoms each time. 10. The trawlers for codfish could not prosecute their calling without obtaining bait and other supplies on our shores; at least not at all in a profitable manner. I have known them to be compelled to abandon their voyage in consequence of not being able to procure bait on our shores. The obtaining of ice and other supplies on our coasts is also a very great advantage to the American fishing vessels on our coasts. 11. The privilege of fishing in American waters is, in my opinion, of no practical advantage whatever to Canadians, and I never heard of any Canadian using those waters for fishing purposes. 12. In my opinion it would be better for Canadians to exclude the Americans from the fisheries within the three-mile limit, and keep them for our own people, even if the American Government put a duty of $2 per barrel, or any other amount of duty, on our fish. And I say that the above statements, to the best of my knowledge and belief, are true in substance and in fact. JAMES B. HADLEY. The said James B. Hadley was sworn to the truth of the above affidavit, at Port Mulgrave, in the county of Guysborough, this 24th day of July, A. D. 1877, before me. GEO. B. HADLEY, No. 47. In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington. I, MICHAEL CRISPO, of Harbor Au Bouche, in the county of Antigo. nish and Province of Nova Scotia, merchant, make oath and say as follows: 1. I have been acquainted with the fisheries on our coasts for the past thirty years, during ten years of which time I was personally engaged as a practical fisherman, and during the remainder of said time I have dealt in various kinds of fish to the extent of about $20,000 or $25,000 yearly. Up to the year 1874, I estimate that there were, on an average, about four hundred sail of American vessels engaged in the mackerel. fishery on our coasts and in our waters each year, and that the yearly catch up to that date would average about six hundred barrels to each vessel. During the past three years the number of American vessels in the mackerel fishery on our coasts has been smaller, as the mackerel have been less plenty. This year, however, there appear to be plenty of mackerel in Antigonish Bay, and there is a good prospect of a fair catch there. I have not heard how the fishery this year is succeeding on the other parts of our coast. It is my opinion that the scarcity of mackerel in our waters is not permanent, and that they will come in again as plenty as ever, unless destroyed by the purse-seines which the Americans are beginning to introduce in our waters. 2. Formerly about one-half of the mackerel were caught within three miles of the shore. Of late years, however, two-thirds of them are caught within that distance, in my opinion; and I consider the inshore mackerel fishery of much greater value than that outside. The herring fishery is almost altogether inshore, and is carried on principally at the Magdalens and on the shores of Newfoundland and Labrador, and is probably as good at the present time as ever it has been. The cod |