call in to our harbors and get bait; they wanted to engage with me to build an ice-house, promising that a large number would buy bait and ice from me. They told me they bought their ice for half a dollar per ton, and I thought that would not leave me much profit and so did not trouble with it. There is an ice-house at Heart's Content where a large quantity of ice has been preserved this winter for sale to United States vessels, who have engaged to buy the same, and a large number are expected there this year for bait and ice. Some of these schooners had spirits on board, which they sold to our people without paying duty.

his

EDWARD + MORSE.

mark.

Sworn before me at Dildo, Trinity Bay, this 27th April, 1877.

J. O. FRASER, Commissioner of Affidavits.

ALBERT GEORGE, 33 years, planter and fisherman, residing at Dildo, Trinity Bay, Newfoundland, maketh. oath and saith:

I have been practically acquainted with the fisheries of this country for fourteen years. I was present when Edward Morse made the above statement, which, excepting as relates to the age of said Edward Morse and his conversations and transactions with captains of United States fishing-vessels, I know to be true in every particular according to my

belief.

ALBERT GEORGE. Sworn before me at Dildo, Trinity Bay, Newfoundland, this 27th April, 1877.

No. 109.

J. O. FRASER, Commissioner of Affidavits.

In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax under the Treaty of Washington.

I, ALEXANDER MCKAY, of North Sydney, in the county of Cape Breton, in the Province of Nova Scotia, formerly of Cape North, in the county of Victoria, in the said province, make oath and say as follows:

1. I was engaged at Cape North, in said county, from eighteen hundred and forty-six till eighteen hundred and sixty-four, in the buying and selling of fish, and was and still am well acquainted with many Canadian and American fishermen, also with the kinds and habits of fish taken in British waters.

2. During the period in which I was engaged in the fish business, I had excellent means of knowing the amount of fish taken by individual vessels, and say that if the fishing is fair, mackerelmen average six hundred barrels on a trip, and American fishermen generally made three such trips each year. Codfishmen made two trips, and fish from April to the last of October, along from Scaterie to the Magdalene Islands, and take on an average about five hundred quintals; some get as many as a thousand quintals.

3. From letters which I have in my possession, and statements which I have from people at Cape North and around Aspy Bay, the cod-fishing has not been so good for twenty years as this season up to this date. At present mackerel are taken in large quantities at Ingonish.

4. Within my knowledge and experience the mackerel-fishing has always fluctuated, being good for a number of years and poor again for some time.

5. During the eighteen years in which I was engaged in the fishing business, caplin only set in three years and fish always came with them and always do; this year caplin have set in in abundance, as also squid, and the mackerel are quite abundant.

6. To my knowledge, during the time engaged in the fish trade, American fishermen always trawled deeper than Canadian fishermen, thus catching the larger fish, which are the mother fish, and thus destroy millions of spawn. When the Americans came and trawled outside, I always found the fish less plentiful afterwards; this I attributed to their destruction of spawn, and the Americans themselves tell me they do so to the present day.

7. The American fishermen are always in the habit of throwing overboard the offals of the fish, and the sound bone which is thrown overboard destroys great numbers of large fish; this our fishermen never practice. The offal frightens away the fish and destroys the fishing grounds for some time.

8. Before and up to 1854 the American fishermen always fished inshore for mackerel because the mackerel come inshore to feed, and inshore is the best place to catch them. The mackerel are on their way south, and when on our coast from August till the last of November are at their best, and the Americans have always taken them inshore, treaty or no treaty. They stopped fishing when a cutter hove in sight and returned when she disappeared.

9. The inshore fisheries are of much greater value than the outside fishery for mackerel, and scarcely any mackerel are taken outside.

10. From the month of August till November, which is the best time. for mackerel fishing, the American fishermen every year, until they had the right of fishing inshore, practiced throwing bait overboard to draw the fish outshore, and this is a very effective plan for drawing out the fish.

11. During the years in which I was engaged in the fish business, no American fishermen took fish with seines. They now use purse seines for taking mackerel in deep water, which destroys the schools of mackerel and frightens them away.

12. The Americans take within three miles of the shore in our bays, harbors, creeks, and rivers, herring, mackerel, squid, and caplin for bait; this they do in every bay and harbor on the coast.

13. The herring fishery is inshore and they catch them for bait all around our coast.

14. I know that Canadian mackerel are better than American, having gone into the American market with our mackerel, and I found that I could get double the price, and while carrying on the fish business at Cape North I lived for some time in Boston and sold our mackerel in the American market, and have compared mackerel taken in American waters with ours, and always found ours much superior, being worth more than twice that of the American.

15. Mackerel come inshore to feed on shrimps, which is an inshore fish, and for a kind of grub found inshore, of which they are fond and can be found in the mackerel after they have come inshore. The principal breeding place of the mackerel is at the Magdalen Islands.

16. Fresh squid and fresh mackerel being the best bait for codfish, if the Americans were deprived of the privilege of getting this bait, that fishery would be valueless to them, nor could they profitably carry on

the cod and other deep-sea fisheries without this privilege of getting bait, and ice in which to pack it.

17. The ice they bring from home is melted by the time they arrive here, and without ice they could not preserve their bait. Their outfits they are furnished with before they leave home.

18. None of our fishermen fish in American waters because our own grounds are so much better, and this fact I have had corroborated by American fishermen. And if the Americans were excluded from our grounds fish would be more plenty and more regular on the inshore grounds.

19. American fishermen smuggle goods, and I have been informed of seizures being made for this practice.

20. I have known fifty or sixty sail of American fishermen at one time fishing off Sydney Harbor, all of whom anchored in the harbor at night and ran out in the morning, catching mackerel, within the last five years; and it is my opinion that if the American fishermen were excluded from our fishing grounds that our own people would go into the fishing much more, and more profitably.

21. None of the codfish vessels, to my knowledge, go through the Strait of Canso. They come around the southern and eastern coasts of Cape Breton, and many mackerelmen do the same. Mackerelmen fish around by Scaterie, and it is therefore shorter for them to come round by the southern and eastern sides of the island of Cape Breton.

A. MCKAY. Sworn to at North Sydney, in the County of Cape Breton, this 19th day of July, A. D. 1877, before me.

JOHN FORBES,

Justice Peace in and for the County of Cape Breton.

No. 110.

In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington.

I, JAMES MCLEOD, formerly of Gabarus, in the county of Cape Breton, province of Nova Scotia, for the last five years now past, of North Sydney, in the said county and province, master mariner, make oath and say as follows:

1. I have been master mariner for about six years, and am well acquainted with the fisheries on the coasts of Cape Breton, Prince Edward Island, the Magdalen Islands, the eastern coast of New Brunswick, Newfoundland, and Labrador.

2. I was personally engaged in the fisheries for about eight years. I fished on the shores of Cape Breton, particularly on the eastern side; on the eastern more than on the other sides. Around the Magdalen Islands, Prince Edward Island, and on the eastern coast of New Brunswick, I have also been engaged in Bank fishing.

3. During this time I fished in company with American fishing-vessels. Around the Magdalen Islands they were almost all American fishermen also on the eastern coast of New Brunswick-and I have seen great numbers of American fishing-vessels in these two last-mentioned localities. Last summer I fished from Cape North to Scaterie, during the cod season, and saw at that season great numbers of American fishermen there, engaged in fishing. Within the last two years I have seen many American fishermen, from Cape North to Scaterie, en

gaged in mackerel fishing, and have seen at one time between twenty and thirty American fishermen so engaged within sight, and think that there would be in that vicinity, at one time, about one hundred.

4. The presence of so many American fishermen lessens the catch of fish.

5. When fishing around the Magdalen Islands, Prince Edward Island, and eastern coast of New Brunswick, about eight or nine years ago, the Americans took mackerel with hook and line; since that time American fishermen have used purse seines, and last summer an Amer ican skipper told me that he had caught mackerel in this way during the said summer. These purse seines are bad for the fisheries. They kill a great many of the fish, mashing them up, and when the seine is tripped these mashed fish sink and frighten away the live fish, and injure the fishing-grounds.

7. I have never seen nor heard of Canadian fishermen using purseseines.

8. I think that more than half the mackerel are taken inshore within the three-mile limit, and the inshore fishing is far the most valuable, because the mackerel strike in toward the shore, and the American vessels follow them in to the shore; and I do not believe it would pay the Americans to come here to fish, unless they followed the fish inshore within three miles. And when in the Island of Cape Breton, during the mackerel season, I have seen many of them fishing within three miles of the shore.

9. It would be impossible for the Americans to successfully carry on the cod and halibut fishing without getting bait from us and ice in which to pack it, and the only place in which they can get this bait is in our bays, creeks, and harbors; also up our rivers, and always within three miles of the shore.

10. All the American fishermen engaged in the cod and halibut fishery come round the southern and eastern coasts of Cape Breton, and many American mackerel fishermen do the same.

11. American fishermen throw overboard fish under a certain number of inches; and in halibut fishing throw away all the codfish, of which they take large numbers, except the very large ones, thus wasting fish and injuring the grounds. This practice our Canadian fishermen never participate in.

12. It is my opinion, it would be much better for our fishermen if the Americans were kept off the inshore grounds and away from the fisheries, as the fish would be much more plenty for our meu.

13. I do not think that the American fishermen are a benefit in any way to our fishermen, but a great injury, lessening the catch and injuring the fishing-grounds, by leaving dead fish and "gurry" on the grounds.

14. I have seen, this present summer, American fishermen within a mile of the shore, fishing, and engaged in the taking of cod, halibut, hake, and pollock, which must be of great value to them.

15. The Americans come here in the early spring; fish along from Cape North in Cape Breton, north of Bird Rock, St. Paul's Island, and Magdalenes, and cut off many fish from going up the St. Lawrence to our fishermen.

JAMES MCLEOD. Sworn to at North Sydney, in the county of Cape Breton, this 19th day of July, A. D. 1877, before me,

JOHN VOOGHT,

J. P., for and in the County of Cape Breton.

No. 111.

In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington.

I, WILLIAM NEARING, of Main-a-Dieu, in the county of Cape Breton, fisherman, make oath and say as follows:

1. I have been upwards of forty years engaged in the inshore fisheries, and have taken mackerel, herring, codfish, and halibut, all the kinds of fish found around here. I fished in a whaleboat and schooner around Cow Bay, Scaterie, Miri Bay, Main-a-Dieu, and Lorraines, and have also gone out fishing from this port with two American fishing schooners.

2. During the number of years mentioned I have seen many American vessels engaged in fishing in the places in which I fished, and during the past five or six years, up to this date, I have seen them fishing in and off shore in this vicinity. I have seen over a hundred American fishing schooners at one time inside and outside of Scaterie Island at one time. All the codfish and halibut fishermen come round the southern and eastern coasts of Cape Breton, and do not run through the Strait of Canso. During the past five or six years I have seen, on an average, upwards of one hundred American fishing-vessels each year around in this vicinity.

3. The Americans take about here mackerel, codfish, and halibut. About eight years ago I was in an American halibut vessel, and in twenty-four hours we took one hundred and sixty halibut north-northeast, and near Scaterie light, inside of the three-mile limit. These halibut would weigh from forty to three hundred pounds each. Since the Americans resorted here halibut have become very scarce; previous to that time we could catch as many as we wanted.

4. The Americans trawled here last spring twelve months for halibut within the three-mile limit. They trawl off on the banks, and their plan of trawling injures the inshore fishery; they trawl on the bottom and take the mother fish; they throw over the gurry, which is very injurious to the fishery; I have myself often caught codfish with sound bones in

them.

5. The Americans have fished all around here inshore for mackerel, and the large quantities taken by them injured the inshore fisheries.

6. The Americans fish mackerel for bait, and buy mackerel and her ring for the same purpose whenever they can get it.

7. In my opinion it would be much better for us if the Americans were kept away from our shores.

his WILLIAM + NEARING. mark.

Sworn to before me at Main-a-Dieu, Cape Breton, the 27th day of July, 1877.

No. 112.

GEO. RIGBY, J. P.

In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington.

I, THOMAS LAHEY, of Main-a-Dieu, in the county of Cape Breton, fisherman, make oath and say as follows:

1. I have been engaged in the inshore fisheries for the last fifty years,