3. I am very well acquainted with the cod fishery, and I am of opinion that the Americans could not carry on the cod fishery profitably without resorting to our shores for bait. 4. The system of trawling followed by the American cod fishermen is most destructive to the fishery. A great many fish are uselessly destroyed by this system of fishing. 5. The mackerel fishery on our shores is likely to be greatly injured by the practice of seining used by the United States fishermen. Quantities of small mackerel and herring are destroyed in this way. 6. In 1873 I fished for mackerel in the Gulf of St. Lawrence in an American vessel, from the 20th of July to the 20th of October. We got 500 barrels. PHILIP DIGGDON. The said Philip Diggdon was sworn to the truth of this affidavit at Port Mulgrave, in the county of Guysborough, this 30th day of July, A. D. 1877, before me. JAMES PURCELL, No. 156. In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington. I, MICHAEL MCDONALD, of Whitehaven, in the county of Guysborough, fisherman, make oath and say as follows: 1. I have been engaged in fishing for thirty years, and during three of these years I fished with the American fishermen in American vessels. 2. We never carried any fresh bait from the United States, but always bought it in the British Provinces. Even if we took it from the United States it would not be fit to use when we got to the fishing grounds. 3. The American fishermen with whom I was engaged fished for mackerel and cod. Trawls were used for the cod-fishing. 4. I have seen as many as three hundred American mackere!-fishing vessels in North Bay in the one season. Each vessel would average fourteen men. They would make from two to four trips per season. They were able to make this number of trips by having the privilege of landing their fares of fish and getting refitted. Without this privilege they could not make more than from one to two trips per season; oftener one than two. I have known one vessel to catch two thousand barrels of mackerel per season. It would be considered a very poor season if each vessel did not got 700 or 800 barrels. 5. I never knew of any American vessels landing for the benefit of the inhabitants. They always do it for their own advantage, and not that of the people with whom they deal. They buy and trade because they save time; buy cheaper than they can in their own markets, and be thus able to fish longer and watch the best chances. The American vessels by buying ice in Canada save one-fifth in quantity, and get the ice from one to two dollars cheaper per ton than they can in the United States. The way the one-fifth in quantity is saved is, that if the ice is got in the United States, one-fifth of it would melt during the passage down. 6. If the Americans could not land, &c., and enjoy the privileges granted by the Washington Treaty, they could not get one-fourth of the fish they now do. In fact I do not think they would fish at all in our waters without these rights. his MICHAEL + MCDONALD. mark. Sworn to at Whitehaven, in the county of Guysborough, this 24th day of July, A. D. 1877, before me, first having been read and explained. JAMES A. TORY, J. P. for the County of Guysborough. No. 157. In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington. I, GEORGE MURPHY, of Port Hood, in the county of Inverness, fisherman, make oath and say as follows: 1. I have been engaged in the occupation of fishing in these parts for fifteen years past, and have taken some trips in American fishing-vessels on this coast, and have fished in a fleet of American vessels numbering between 100 and 200 sail in the gulf and around the coast of Nova Scotia and Cape Breton, Sydney, Louisburg, and the Magdalen Islands, and have had large opportunities of judging of the general character of the fishing business on this coast. 2. I have seen as high as five hundred American vessels in this harbor of Port Hood, and have known as many as seven hundred American vessels fishing in the gulf in one season. These vessels average about 60 or 70 tons burden, and have a crew of about fifteen men; but I have known many American vessels of larger tonnage, and sometimes with a crew of twenty men. The average cargo of mackerel was three hundred barrels each vessel, and of codfish generally about five or six hundred quintals. They average about three trips per season. Mackerel brought about $15 per barrel, and codfish from $4 to $5 per quintal. This was when I was working with the American fleet. I cannot speak positively as to numbers for the last year or two. 3. The cod fishery about here is about as good as usual now; not aware of any falling off in the quantity or catch. The mackerel fishery has fallen off somewhat during the past two or three years, but this has only been in bite, not in numbers. There are as many mackerel in our waters now as ever there were. The only reason I know of for the falling off in the catch of mackerel lately is the use of the seines by the American fishermen, and the practice of throwing bait overboard, which has made the mackerel less sharp to bite. If our grounds are properly taken care of I know no reason why our mackerel grounds should not be as productive during the next ten years as ever before. 4. I have seen American fishermen within the last three years catching mackerel in these waters with purse seines, and they would sometimes take as many as one thousand barrels at one haul. They could only save half of these, and had to let the rest go, some being killed in the operation. This kind of fishing is very destructive to our fishing grounds. I never knew a Canadian fisherman to use purse seines, and most of the mackerel caught by them are taken in boats. 5. I have seen American fishermen since the Washington Treaty catching fish in this harbor within one mile of the shore, and less. During the past two or three years the best fishing has been within three miles of the shore, and most fish are taken within that limit. When on board American fishing vessels we took nearly all the cargo of mackerel inshore. 6. The Americans catch bait within three miles of the shore-both herring and squid. All bait is caught inshore. They chiefly buy now, and their reason for this is, because it pays them better than catching it. Our fishermen catch bait better than the Americans. To my knowledge, as many as fifty or sixty American vessels have baited here this season, in this vicinity. 7. Our herring fisheries are very valuable to Canadian fishermen. It is the most profitable business we have now. I have known our own fishermen to take from 150 to 200 barrels of herring in two days, in one boat. If the American fishermen should take hold of this herring-fishing and begin to seine herring, it would be a great injury to us and a loss to our business. 8. The main body of the mackerel feed around our shores in the shoal water. Their food is small fish, which only frequent the inshores. In the autumn season the mackerel particularly keep close inshore. 9. It is a great advantage for American fishermen to be allowed to be allowed to land and dry their nets and cure their fish; and also to transship their cargoes. They are in the habit of doing this constantly since the Treaty of Washington, and their fishermen always consider it an advantage to them as enabling them to refit for a new voyage without going back to their home ports. They can thus catch more fish and make more trips during the season. 10. The privilege of being able to catch or procure bait in our waters and ports is one of the most important advantages which the Americans derive from the Treaty of Washington. This is so great an advantage that if the Americans were not allowed to procure bait from Canadians, or catch it in Canadian waters, I believe they would have to abandon their cod-fishing in the gulf and around our coast altogether. The bait which they use will only last about three weeks when preserved on ice, and it would be impossible for Americans to carry on the cod-fishing business to any profitable extent if they had to be dependent on American ports and waters for all the bait they used. 11. The American fishermen also find it a great advantage to them to procure ice from our ports. It is in this way they are able to preserve their bait, otherwise they would have to salt it, which is considered a great injury to the bait. 12. I know of no advantage whatever which Canadian fishermen derive from the privilege of fishing in American waters. Americans say that our fishing grounds are their best and most valuable. I never heard of any Canadian vessels going into American waters to fish, and see no likelihood of any doing so. 13. I could not undertake to name any certain money value to each American vessel of the privileges which they now have of fishing and getting supplies in our waters; but I don't see how they could carry on their fisheries in these parts with any kind of profit or success if they did not enjoy them. They would not be able to take as many trips, nor could they get on with the same ease, and their cod-fishing would be next thing to ruined if they could not get bait here. 14. I believe if there were no American fishermen in our waters, and our own fishermen had exclusive use of British-American waters, that we would be able to catch more fish and derive greater profits, and that our fishing grounds would be better preserved. Canadian fishermen carry on their business with greater care than Americans, and instead of throwing the offal overboard to glut the fish, they carry it to the shore. GEORGE MURPHY. Sworn to at Port Hood, in the county of Inverness, this 20th day of July, A. D. 1877, before nie. JOHN MCKAY, J. P. No. 158. In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington. I, JAMES PHELAN, of Arichat, in the county of Richmond, and Province of Nova Scotia, merchant, make oath and say as follows: 1. During the past twelve years I have been employed or engaged in the fish-trade in this place, and I have a good general knowledge of the fisheries on our coasts. 2. I believe that our inshore fisheries within three miles of the shore are of much greater value than those outside that distance, and almost all the herring and a greater part of the mackerel are caught within that distance. 3. The opportunity of transshipping cargoes enjoyed by American fishermen since the Treaty of Washington of 1871 is a great advantage to them, as by means of this they save about fifteen days on every trip to the fishing grounds. When mackerel are plenty, a vessel could get a fare of them in little more than the time it would take to go to her home port in the United States and return. This privilege of course enables them to make more trips and catch more fish than they otherwise could. 4. I believe that it would be impossible for the American cod-fishermen to prosecute their calling successfully or profitably without obtaining bait on the shores of Canada or Newfoundland, and to keep this bait fresh it is necessary for them also to procure ice on our coasts. Every season American cod-fishing vessels visit this island (Isle Madame) for bait and ice in great numbers. The Americans purchase most of the bait they obtain from our fishermen, as it is cheaper for them to do so than to consume part of the fishing-season in catching it themselves. 5. The privilege of fishing in American waters is of no advantage whatever to Canadians, and no Canadian vessel has, to my knowledge, availed itself of such privilege. 6. I believe that the practice of trawling followed by the American cod-fishermen is injurious to the fishery, and that our fishermen could carry on the fishery around our coast more successfully if the Americans were excluded from our waters. JAMES PHELAN. The said James Phelan was sworn to the truth of this affidavit at Arichat, in the county of Richmond, on the 3d day of August, A. D. 1877, before me. In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington. I, H. ROBERTSON, of Griffin's Cove, county of Gaspé, Province of Quebec, fisherman, make oath and say as follows: Am acquainted with all the fisheries carried on on the coast of Gaspé for 30 years past. 1. During the Reciprocity Treaty, and before, that is from 1845 to 1866, the Americans have made an extensive fishery of mackerel at Griffin's and neighboring coves. About 100 American vessels have visited our shores for mackerel yearly. I have seen the American fishermen from the shore fishing. I have been on board their vessels whilst they were catching mackerel with hand-lines, and always inshore. 2. These vessels average 65 tons, having about 15 men for a crew, and they have always made good voyages, getting all their load inshore, amounting to 400 barrels. 3. The Americans catch mackerel with hand-lines and seines, principally with the former. 4. The Americans have always fished for mackerel inshore on this coast, and very close to the shore. 5. The inshore fishery is of much greater value than the outside. All the fish are taken inshore here. 6. The Americans have often come amongst our boats whilst we were fishing for mackerel, and by throwing bait draw the fish outside, thereby causing us great damage. They have done that to me nearly every year during the period mentioned above. They often threatened to stone us if we went near their vessels to fish. 7. Since 1871 the codfish have increased considerably, owing to the retirement of Americans from our waters. 8. The principal food of mackerel is lance and sea-fleas. This is what keeps the mackerel inshore on our coast. 9. Fishing by Americans in our waters hinders the fishing operations of our Canadian fishermen to a great extent, because we cannot compete with them. his HILAIRE + ROBERTSON. Witness: A. D. JOHNSTONE. mark. Sworn to the best of his knowledge, information, and belief, at Griffin's Cove, county of Gaspé, Province of Quebec, Dominion of Canada, this 28th day of July, A. D. 1877, before me. N. LAVOIE, Justice of the Peace, Province of Quebec. No. 160. In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington. I, DONALD WEST, of Grand Greve, county of Gaspé, Province of Quebec, fisherman, make oath and say as follows: Am acquainted with the fisheries on the coast of the Gulf of St. Lawrence, having practiced them for forty years. 1. In the Bay of Gaspé and neighboring shores mackerel-fishing by the Americans has been practiced on an extensive scale, especially during the period extending from 1845 to 1866. 2. During the period just mentioned over 100 American schooners have visited the Bay of Gaspé yearly for mackerel-fishing. The mackerel at that time were very abundant in our waters, and each of the vessels that have been here during that time for mackerel-fishing have made good voyages yearly. I have seen them loading, and have heard the Americans say so themselves, and I have heard them also say that |