4. We ship on an average from fifteen to twenty thousand (20,000) quintals of dried codfish annually, besides other fish and fish-oil. The price we obtain at the foreign markets above mentioned ranges from $4.50 to $8 per quintal.

5. We have never sent any of our fish or fish-oil to the United States, as the foreign markets above mentioned are better markets; that is, we get higher prices for our fish there.

6. My opinion is that the right of fishing in American waters is of no value whatever to us.

7. It is of the utmost importance to the people of this coast to have our fisheries in our own hands, and not to allow Americans to participate in them. The population of the coast is increasing so rapidly that new fishermen enter every year into the business, and we require all our fisheries to give them employment, and enable them to procure a liveli. hood.

8. The baits for cod fishing found on this coast are mackerel, herring, caplin, launce, smelt, chubs, squid, and clams; there is always an abun dance of some kind of the above-mentioned bait. When one kind fails we can always find a substitute.

9. It is my opinion-and I base my opinion upon experience, because we had one of our vessels fishing on the Banks for several years—that American fishermen could not profitably carry on the cod and other fisheries of the deep sea without resorting to our inshore waters to procure bait, either by seining, netting, or by purchase.

I hereby swear that the above statement is, to the best of my knowl edge and belief, correct.

A. E. COLLAS.

The said Adolphus E. Collas has sworn to the truth of the above affidavit, at Point St. Peter's, this thirteenth day of August, A. D. 1877, before me.

No. 174.

P. FORTIN, J. P.

In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington.

1, DANIEL ORANGE, of Paspebiac, of the county of Gaspé, in the Province of Quebec, make oath and say as follows:

1. I am 43 years of age. I have been 29 years in this country, in the employment of Messrs. Charles Robin & Co. I have been the general agent for this firm for the last three years.

2. Our principal business is the cod fishing and curing and fish-oil trade. We own 450 fishing boats that take two men each, besides several fishing-schooners of from 7 to 50 tons, employed in the coast fishery. We own, also, 14 foreign-going ships and coasting craft-ten in number; most of these vessels were built here, there being now one actually build. ing on the stocks. The sea-going vessels range from 100 to 350 tons each; the coasters average about 50 tons. Besides the 900 fishermen mentioned above, we employ 900 men, made up of shoremen, i. e., those employed in curing fish on shore, ship and boat builders, blacksmiths, Coopers, sailmakers, and other mechanics. Besides these, our foreigngoing vessels are manned by about 140 men, and our coasters by about 70; making in all 2,010 men. Our firm has been established in this country for more than a century, and has always been in operation since.

3. In 1876, our firm exported 70,000 quintals of dried codfish to Brazil, Spain, Portugal, West Indies, and Italy. The fishery that year was a partial failure. We exported, also, that year 40,000 gallons of fish oil. In an average year we would export from 90,000 to 100,000 quintals of dried codfish.

4. None of our fish is exported to the United States, as our fish is prepared entirely for exportation to hot climates, where it is known to keep well, it being of a superior quality; we could not obtain in the markets of the United States for our fish a price that would be remunerative. We even tried the United States market with green herring during the Reciprocity Treaty, when there was no duty, and we found it did not pay.

5. Most of our codfish are taken within three miles of the shore.

6. During the Reciprocity Treaty and the period of licenses I saw annually a large fleet of American vessels fishing for mackerel on the north as well as the south shore of this Bay of Chaleur. On one occasion I saw at Perce 80 to 100 sail at anchor. Since I came to Paspebiac, three years ago, I have seen several American vessels fishing for mackerel in this bay, and to-day several are fishing within the 3-mile limit. The day before yesterday they took their mackerel with seine close to the shore, much to the injury of our inshore fisheries, as it hinders our codfishermen very much in their getting bait for their fishery.

7. The following is a list of our various fishing establishments: Paspebiac (headquarters), Perce, Grand River, Newport, Pabos L'Anse au Beau Fils, Magpie, Cape Cove, Dock, St. John, Natashquan, in the Province of Quebec, Carraquette, Shippegan, in New Brunswick, Arichat, Small and Big Cheticamp, in Cape Breton, N. S.

I hereby swear that the above statement is to the best of my knowl edge and belief correct.

D. ORANGE.

The said Daniel Orange has sworn to the truth of the above affidavit at Paspebiac, this sixteenth day of August, A. D. 1877, before me. P. FORTIN, J. P.

No. 175.

In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington.

I, JOSHUA MOURANT, of Paspebiac, in the county of Bonaventure, and Province of Quebec, make oath and say as follows:

1. I am 34 years of age, 27 years which I have lived on this coast. I am a native of the Island of Jersey, Channel Islands. I am 27 years in the employment of the firm of LeBoutillier Brothers, of Jersey, who carry on the fishing business. I am 20 years an agent, and for the past four years I have been the general manager of the firm.

2. The following is the list of the fishing establishments of this firm: Paspebiac (headquarters), Bonaventure Island, Thunder River, Magpie, Green Island, Wood Island, all in the Province of Quebec, and Fortune Bay, on the coast of Labrador.

3. We own 170 fishing-boats, with from 2 to 3 men each, and we employ, as fishermen and shoremen, carpenters, clerks, blacksmiths, and other mechanics, over one thousand men. We own 5 foreign-going vessels, and charter 7 others, 4 coasters.

4. Our principal business is the cod fishing and curing, and also her

ring and fish oils. We export, on an average, annually, 21,000 quintals of dry codfish to Brazils and Mediterranean and West Indies. We also export about 50,000 gallons of cod and seal oils. All of this oil goes to English markets. We do not export any fish to the United States at present, nor for three years. We have tried both herring and large codfish (dry and green), and took great pains that it should give satisfaction, and with all that it was sacrificed in the American markets. As to the dry codfish that we prepare for the before-named foreign markets, and which is of a superior quality, the American market would not pay us what we pay for it here.

5. The American free market is of no use to us at all.

6. The great bulk of the codfish taken is got within three miles of the shore.

7. The right of fishing in American waters is of no value to us; we never go there to fish.

8. From 1854 until the expiration of the period of licenses the Americans fished in the Bay of Chaleur in great numbers for mackerel-they used generally to load their vessels. Since 1871 we have still seen them, but not in such numbers, and we see them still; they are here today. An American captain told me yesterday that he caught over 30 barrels of mackerel off the light-house on the point. The mackerel fishing in this bay generally begins about the 20th of this month. cording to reliable information, I believe the mackerel is now plentiful in the bay, and lots are caught in the nets.

9. I believe it is our interest to keep our fisheries to ourselves, and not allow strangers to participate in them, as our population is increasing, and if strangers are allowed to fish in our inshore waters many of our young men will have to emigrate.

10. Many of the American schooners use trawl lines in the prosecu tion of their cod fishing, which causes great injury, it being most of the mother fish they catch. They also do damage by the practice of throwing over the offal.

11. If the American Bank fishermen were prohibited from taking or baying bait on shore, they could not carry on their Bank fishery suc cessfully, as the supply of bait on the Banks is not certain.

I hereby swear that he above statement is, to the best of my knowl edge and belief, correct.

J. MOURANT.

The said Joshua Mourant has sworn to the truth of the above affi davit at Paspebiac, in the county of Bonaventure and Province of Quebec, this sixteenth day of August, A. D. 1877, before me.

No. 176.

P. FORTIN, J. P.

In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington.

I, FRANK LEBLANC, of Port Daniel, in the county of Bonaventure, Province of Quebec, make oath and say as follows:

1. I am fifty years of age. Since the age of 14, that is, for the past 36 years, I have been a mariner. I have sailed in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, on the coasts of the maritime provinces and Newfoundland, the Atlantic coasts of America, to the West Indies, and to Great Britain, and for the last 25 years I have been master mariner in command of a coasting

vessel employed in the fishing business, and owned by Messrs. Le Boutillier Bros. Before entering into the employment of Messrs. Le Boutillier Bros., I lived for 7 years in Boston, U. S., and during that time I was engaged in fishing during the summer on board of American mackerelfishing vessels, while during the winter I went to sea on different voyages-sometimes to the West Indies, sometimes to Europe. Our cruising grounds during those 7 summers, after mackerel, were for the first voyage the Bay des Chaleur, off Bathurst, and Grand Anse, close to the shore, and we made our second voyage on the north shore of Prince Edward Island, off Rustico, close to the shore, not only within the 3mile limit, but as close as we could get. We took the fish with hook and line, the mode called bobbing. I mean to say that during the 7 summers alluded to we made two trips each year, going always to the places mentioned above. The American schooners on which I made those voyages hailed from Bass River, Cape Cod, and were about 60 tons each, carrying 18 men. Our voyages took usually from 3 to 6 weeks. The schooners were clipper vessels and carried 350 barrels. We never went home without a full load of beautiful fat fish. All the fish we took during those 7 summers were taken strictly within British waters. On one occasion we made our voyage off Rustico in 8 days; we took 140 barrels in one day, and I myself took with my two lines from sunrise till about 8 o'clock a. m. eleven barrels.

While fishing on the above-named grounds we used to see annually about 40 American mackerel vessels in the Bay of Chaleur, and from 80 to 100 on the north coast of Prince Edward Island. These vessels were all fishing on the same grounds as we were, but besides these there were a great many other American mackerel schooners fishing in the bay and off Prince Edward Island.

2. During the Reciprocity Treaty I have been, as before stated, in command of a coasting schooner owned by LeBoutillier Bros., and in that capacity made every year ten voyages from Paspebiac to the north shore of the River Saint Lawrence, and one trip to Quebec in the fall. Besides that, I used to go very often from Paspebiac to Bonaventure Island. During those trips I always passed along and usually close to the coast of Gespé County.

3. During the Reciprocity Treaty and the period of licenses I saw myself, every year during the mackerel season, a great number of American vessels fishing for mackerel in the Bay of Chaleur, on the coast of Gaspé, on the south shore of the River Saint Lawrence as high as Magdalen River, and on the north shore as high as Point des Monts to the west, and as far as Mingan to the east. I saw annually on these shores above named, and nearly all within three miles of the coast, in the act of fishing, fro m250 to 300 American mackerel schooners. This I consider a low estimate. Most of these vessels made two trips every year. Some of these vessels were 120 tons and carried 25 hands, and took as much as 800 barrels a voyage. These vessels all carried away on an average from 350 to 400 barrels each trip.

Between the period of licenses and the commencement of the Treaty of Washington I still saw a good many vessels fishing in British waters along the above-mentioned coasts. They used to dodge the cutters. Since the Treaty of Washington the number has been greater, and I estimate it at at least 80. They were of the same description as before, and fished in British waters. Most of them made two voyages, and carried away from 350 to 400 barrels each voyage.

4. For the last ten or twelve years I have seen along the north shore of the St. Lawrence from Point des Monts to Mingan about ten Ameri

can halibut fishing schooners coming annually and fishing close to the shore, and all within three miles of the shore. They fished with trawllines. Each vessel carried from 4 to 6 dories, and each dory had a thousand hooks on their trawls. The halibut they took was gutted and packed in ice on board, and carried in a fresh state to the United States. Some of those vessels made two voyages, and I estimate their load at from 60,000 to 70,000 pounds each.

When those vessels commenced fishing on the north shore, I can state that the halibut were very abundant. At present, however, the inhab itants find it difficult to get any for their own use. I attribute this falling off to the number taken by the Americans with trawls, which is an extremely destructive mode of fishing, as it kills the large mother fish. While in the States, I learned that the Americans had ruined many of their fishing banks with trawl-lines, and since then I have heard from United States fishermen that a similar destruction has been going on on the American coast.

5. I consider that the privilege of fishing in American waters is absolutely useless to us, as I know from experience that fishermen going from here there would not be able to catch fish enough to pay for their salt.

6. To my own knowledge the crews of some of those American vessels have gone ashore and often committed depredations on our coasts. They used to break down fences, trample the gardens and crops, and insult the people. Five years ago there were a great many United States fishing vessels at anchor at Port Daniel, and a band of fishermen from them went to my house, burst open the door, and tried to force their way in. They were only prevented by my wife and children defending themselves. My wife herself had to threaten them with an ax; finding such resistance, they went away.

I hereby swear that the above statement is to the best of my knowledge and belief correct, as is also the following statement: In the same year a boat's crew landed from one of those American fishing-vessels at Port Daniel; they, during the evening, robbed the garden of Dan Sullivan, my neighbor; his wife saw them, and went out to remonstrate, when one of them pulled out a revolver and fired at her; the ball went through the door post, she standing at the door.

F. LEBLANC.

The said Frank LeBlanc has sworn to the truth of the above affidavit, at Paspebiac, this sixteenth day of August, A. D. 1877, before me. P. FORTIN, J. P.

No. 177.

In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington.

I, THOMAS C. REMON, of Little Pabos, of the county of Gaspé, of the Province of Quebec, make oath and say as follows:

1. I am a native of Jersey, and have been on this coast for more than 30 years. I was for seven years in the Gaspé Fishing and Coal Mining Company as clerk. I afterwards and since carried on business on my own account. I am thoroughly conversant with all that concerns fish and fishing. I keep fishing-boats.

2. I am well acquainted with the fishing carried on from Paspebiac to Perce, a distance of about 90 miles. The principal fisheries on this coast are the cod, mackerel, berring, and halibut. The baits are caplin, herring, mackerel, squid, smelts, and clams.