4. Within the last two or three years I have seen American fishermen using the purse seines in the mackerel fisheries, and I consider that this practice is very injurious to our fishing-grounds. Sometimes as many as a thousand barrels of mackerel are taken in one haul, which cannot be cured or saved, and part of them have to be let out and many are killed. This must be destructive to the fishery. I have never known Canadian fishermen to take this course, and most of them catch mackerel in boats.

5. American fishermen to my knowledge have caught mackerel since the Treaty of Washington within one mile of the shore and even less. Within two or three years I have seen them catching in this harbor. It is always considered that the best fishing is within three miles of the shore. When I was ou board of American fishing vessels we took nearly all the cargo inshore.

6. I have seen Americans catching bait within three miles of the shore-in fact, all bait is caught inshore, being smaller fish, which only live in shoal water. Now the Americans buy most of their bait, because it is more convenient and profitable for them to do so, and our fishermen catch it with greater facility than they do. Not less than fifty or sixty American vessels have baited here this present season already, chiefly herring and squid.

7. The American practice of throwing bait to entice mackerel away is very injurious to our boat-fishing. Their vessels often come along where we are fishing, and throw bait overboard, and the fish leave us and go in the direction of their bait, which is very damaging to our catch.

8. Our herring fishery is one of the most important and valuable we have. Large quantities of this fish are taken by our shore fishermen now. I have known as many as one hundred and fifty barrels of herring to be taken by one boat in two days. If the Americans should enter into this branch of fishing under the Washington Treaty, and they do somewhat now, and use their seines, it would injure our business very seriously and damage the grounds very much.

9. To the best of my observation and experience as a fisherman, I say that the main body of the mackerel feed around the shore in shoal water. Their food being small fish, they must necessarily be obtained near the shore, and in the fall season especially the mackerel cluster near the shore, and it is there chiefly that they are caught.

10. I consider it a great advantage for American fishermen to be allowed to land in our ports and dry their nets and cure their fish, and still more to be allowed to transship their cargoes. There can be no doubt about this. They do it continually, and say themselves that it is a great advantage, as it enables them to fit out for new voyages and ship men without going back to American ports. They can catch more fish in a season by means of this privilege and take more trips.

11. 1 regard the privilege of being able to catch and buy bait in Canadian waters as one of the greatest advantages the American fishermen get from the treaty. If they had not this privilege they would have to abandon cod-fishing in our waters and on our coast altogether. They begin the cod fishing about the first of May, and get bait continually all the season. When preserved in ice, which they get from our traders, the bait is allowed to last about three weeks. If they could not get it from us, and ice to keep it, the only way they could preserve it would be to salt it, and this injures the quality of the bait. If the Americans had to go back to their own waters and ports to get bait every three

weeks they could do nothing with their cod-fishing, and it would be impossible to carry it on profitably.

12. I could not tell in figures just what the money-value is to each American fishing-vessel to be allowed to fish in our waters and get bait and supplies, but I do not think it is too much to say that it is worth nearly as much as their entire fisheries at present on these grounds, for without these privileges they would find it very difficult, without violating the law, to carry on fishing of any kind profitably in the gulf or around the British-American coast. They could not possibly take as many trips, nor could they carry on their business with any facility.

13. I know of no advantage of any kind which our Canadian fishermen gain from being able to fish in American waters. I have heard American fishermen admit that our grounds were the richest and best. I have never heard of any Canadian or British vessel going to American waters for the purpose of fishing, nor can I imagine any reason to induce them to do so.

14. If our fishermen had the exclusive right to fish in our own waters on the British-American coast, and no American fishermen were allowed to compete, I am certain we would be able to catch more fish every year and make more profits out of the business. Our fishing grounds would also be better preserved, because our fishermen carry on their fishing with much greater care and do not destroy the grounds as the American fishermen do, by throwing offal overboard and using purse seines.

WILLIAM WATTS.

Sworn to at Port Hood, in the county of Inverness, this 21st day of July, A. D. 1877, before me.

JOHN MCKAY, J. P.

No. 268.

In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington.

I, JOSHUA SMITH, of Port Hood Island, in the county of Inverness, Cape Breton, fisherman and trader, make oath and say as follows:

1. I am a member of the firm of J. & H. Smith, which has been actively engaged in the occupation of fishing and supplying fishermen for the past fifteen or twenty years, and I have had ample opportunities of becoming familiar with the general business done on the coast of Cape Breton. Our firm has dealt in mackerel, codtish, haddock, hake, and herring to the value of over $3,000 annually.

2. I have known as many as five hundred sail of United States fishing-vessels engaged in the fisheries around the Island of Cape Breton. This was during the Reciprocity Treaty from 1854 to 1864. After that treaty terminated the number of American vessels very much decreased. These have fished around the coast of Cape Breton, Antigonish Bay, Prince Edward Island, Magdalen Islands, and the coasts of Nova Scotia proper. They take mackerel chiefly. Also codfish in large quantities and herring and halibut in smaller quantites.

3. The average tonnage of United States fishing-vessels is 70 tons, and each of them has a crew of about fifteen men. During the Recip rocity Treaty each vessel averaged about three hundred barrels of mackerel per trip and made from two to three trips per season from this coast. This average was much reduced after the Reciprocity Treaty.

4. During the past two or three years the catch of mackerel has been somewhat less than formerly on the coast of Cape Breton. But I regard this diminution as merely accidental and temporary. These grounds are exceedingly rich in fish, and I have no hesitation in giving it as my opinion that the mackerel fisheries on this coast will be as productive and valuable during the next eight years as during the eight years just past. The mackerel season for the present year has only just commenced, but the prospects are favorable.

5. From what I have observed and from information received from American fishermen, I should judge that at least one-half of the cargoes taken from this coast were caught inside of three miles of the shore. And always late in the season as the autumn approaches much the larger part of the fish are taken within three miles of the shore. The privilege of the shore-fishing is valuable on account of prolonging the fishing season.

6. The privilege accorded to American fishermen of taking fish within three miles of the coast is of very great value to them. I have no hesitation in saying that if they were restricted to the Treaty of 1818, they would be compelled to abandon the fisheries or nearly so.

7. The American fishermen do catch bait within three miles of the coast to some extent, but they purchase a great deal of it now from traders. The privilege of catching and procuring bait from our ports I consider a very great advantage to the United States fishing-fleet, and enables them not only to carry on their operations with greater facility, but to make more trips per season than if they were compelled to procure their bait exclusively from American waters and ports.

8. I consider it decidedly an advantage to American fishermen to land and dry their nets and cure their fish on our coasts.

9. A large number of American fishing vessels get supplies every season from our establishment, and from other establishments on the coast. They call here annually for outfits, men, and boats to land cargo, and to refit for other voyages. I certainly consider it an advantage to American fishermen to exercise this privilege. The United States fishermen also procure ice in our ports for preserving fish, and I have sold ice to Americans for that purpose during the present season.

10. I am not aware of any advantage that Canadians will derive from the right to fish in the American waters, nor of any they have derived under the Treaty of Washington, unless it is procuring pogies for bait. 11. I consider it would be a valuable advantage for the British fishermen to carry on the inshore fisheries exclusively, and without competing with American fishermen, and this advantage I would estimate at one hundred per cent., or equivalent to the entire value of our fisheries.

12. I would not like to state positively the cash value to each American vessel of the privilege of catching fish within our coasts and bays, and of procuring bait and outfitting, but I am safe in saying it enables them to double their voyages at the very least. And without such privileges I don't know as American fishermen would be able to prosecute their business on this coast.

13. The privilege of transshipment enjoyed by American fishermen under the Treaty of Washington is important and valuable, and may become within the next few years a source of great profit.

JOSHUA SMITH. Sworn to at Port Hood, in the county of Inverness, this 19th day of July, A. D. 1877, before me.

DUNCAN CAMPBELL, J. P.

No. 269.

In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington.

I, LIVINGSTON COGGINS, of Westport, in the county of Digby, fisherman, make oath and say as follows:

1. I fish out of this port in a schooner of forty-three tous, manned by eight hands, and we fish off to twenty miles off shore, and in the spring close inshore. Large numbers of Americans fish on the same grounds; often seeing four and five in sight at one time, mostly trawling. In this county the Americans trawl halibut off from six or seven miles to close inshore. This trawling is very injurious to the fishery, as the mother fish are taken, which is not the case in hand-lining. On Bear Cove ground the Americans trawl inshore for all kinds of fish. The Americans which trawl on our grounds throw overboard their gurry, which is very injurious to the grounds. From this port, including Freeport, there are fishing out every year twenty vessels, from fifteen to forty tons each. The most of these vessels hand-line, and use kids on board for the gurry. These American vessels which trawl on our grounds get their bait inshore at Grand Manan and in this county.

LIVINGSTON COGGINS. Sworn to at Westport, in the county of Digby, this 31st day of August, A. D. 1877, before me. H. E. PAYSON, J. P., County Digby.

No. 270.

In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington.

I, MARTIN WENTZEL, Lower LaHave, county of Lunenburg, fisherman, make oath and say as follows:

1. I have been upwards of twenty-five years engaged in the fishery, and have fished along the southern coast of Nova Scotia, around the eastern side of Cape Breton, around Prince Edward Island, the eastern side of New Brunswick, and around the Magdalen Islands, and am well acquainted with the inshore fishery in Lunenburg County. I fished mostly as master, and am part owner of a vessel at present engaged in the fishery.

2. From three to four years ago I fished in the Bay of Chaleur, and have there fished mackerel and bait. About nine years ago I have heard persons in the bay say that there were upwards of two hundred vessels there at one time fishing mackerel. The American vessels carried from fourteen to eighteen men, and some as high as twenty. The Americans fished the mackerel mostly all inshore, within three miles of the shore. If I had not been allowed to fish inshore in the Bay of Chaleur for mackérel, it would not pay me to go there, and I took more than three-fourths of my cargo inshore.

3. I have seen the Americans take codfish inshore in the Bay of Chaleur. The Americans fished inshore in boats for codfish, and wherever there was fish. The Americans made the fish scarce for us inshore, and they took large quantities.

4. In fishing mackerel the Americans often lee-bowed us, and threw

over bait to take the fish away from inshore. I have often seen the Americans running into Nova Scotian vessels, and being so many, we were often afraid of them.

5. The Americans fit out their vessels to take from three to eight hundred barrels per vessel, and take on an average of from three hundred to four hundred barrels to each vessel on each trip, and make about three trips. Some years the Americans do better than this and some not so well. Our vessels are not so large as the Americans, and I have taken three hundred barrels of mackerel in one trip. About four years ago I took codfish in the Bay of Chaleur, and took in my vessel eight hundred and twenty-five quintals, mostly all inshore.

6. The Americans carry on the fishing by trawling, and I think this kind of fishing should not be allowed.

7. The Americans fished inshore when the fishery was protected by the cutters, and used to run off shore when the cutters were around, and used to come in when they disappeared. It would not pay the Ameri cans to fish unless they could catch fish inshore.

8. The Americans get bait here year after year, and this spring have got bait at Mosher's Island, in this harbor, aud have, during the past five or six years, got ice in this harbor in which to pack their bait. MARTIN WENTZEL.

Sworn to at Lower LaHave, in the county of Lunenburg, this 7th day of August, A. D. 1877, before me.

JAMES H. WENTZEL, J. P.

No. 271.

In the matter of the Fisheries Commission at Halifax, under the Treaty of Washington.

I, WILLIAM B. CHRISTIAN, of Prospect, in the county of Halifax, and Province of Nova Scotia, at present of the city of Halifax, make oath and say as follows:

I keep a general store and do a general mercantile business at Prospect, supplying our fishermen and others with goods and supplies.

I also supply ice and bait to American cod and halibut fishermen, and advertise in the Gloucester Advertiser to that effect.

Several others at Prospect tried this last business, but could not do it with success.

Another person at Prospect doing that business to the extent that I do it would render the thing of little or no profit or advantage.

I purchase goods in Boston every year, personally visting that city; but the trade of the American fishermen with me, except for bait and ice, is very trifling. When in Boston, I usually each year go on to Gloucester to settle up with those who buy ice and bait, and arrange for further business in those things, and I am thus in frequent communication with American capitalists, whose vessels fish in our water.

I am aware that it would be useless for the Americans to attempt to carry on the cod or halibut fishery in our waters without the liberty now enjoyed since the Washington Treaty, of procuring ice and fresh bait on our shores.

This year an American halibut-fishing vessel came into Prospect, the William Thompson, a new vessel, belonging to the well-known firm of Cunningham & Thompson, of Gloucester, and had sixty-five thousand pounds of halibut on board, which required immediately four or five