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No. 308.

I, JOHN MCINTYRE, of Fairfield, Township No. 47, in King's County, Prince Edward Island, master mariner, make oath and say:

1. That I have had experience in the mackerel-fishing for the last thirty-five years, and also in the cod-fishing, in both boats and schooners, in both island and American schooners, having fished all round the gulf fishing grounds, and also on the United States coasts, and I know the fishing grounds well.

2. That from East Point to Black Bush there are about one hundred boats, besides dories, engaged in fishing, that is in a distance of fifteen miles. The number is increasing fast. The number has doubled in the last year, and are still increasing; there are not yet enough boats for the crews.

3. The reason I give for the increase in the boat-fishing is, that fishing pays better than anything else, and it affords employment to people who can get no other employment. It is a ready-money business, and puts a lot of money into circulation.

4. That these boats take, on an average, crews of three men to a boat. The boats along here are small, as we have to beach the boats.

5. That the boats get as many herring on this shore as are required for bait through the season, and also for home use. They do not try for more than that. They might take quantities to export, if attention were given to the business. There are any quantities of them along the shore. These boats for the whole season, taking one season with another, take, on an average, one hundred quintals of codfish and hake to a boat; some years more and some years less. They also average fifty barrels of mackerel in the season to each boat. The herring are taken right inshore, within a couple of hundred yards of the shore; in the summer season they are taken as far as a mile and a half from the shore. The codfish are all taken at from half a mile to three miles from shore. All the mackerel here are taken inshore, within a mile of land. 6. That I was fishing round this island shores in the island schooners Eneas McIntyre and in the Emerald. In the former of these I fished two years, and was master of her. We packed out the first year three hundred barrels of mackerel-we were only out six weeks that season. The second year we were also out six weeks, and got two hundred barrels. She was a schooner of sixty-two tons burden, and carried fourteen hands. In the Emerald we were out not more than five or six weeks, and we got about two hundred and sixty barrels of mackerel. These fish were all caught inshore, none of them more than three miles off.

7. That I fished for seven or eight seasons in American vessels, among which were the Isabella, Robert D. Rhodes, the P. H. Corliss, the Horatio Babson, Albert Clarence, B. S. Young, the Lucinda, and the Native.

8. That I was on board the Isabella the same year that I was in the Emerald, for ten days, and in that time we took two hundred and sixty barrels of mackerel. She carried thirteen men.

9. That I was in the Robert D. Rhodes for three weeks, and in that time we took two hundred and seventy barrels of mackerel. She was about sixty tons burden and carried thirteen hands.

10. That I was three weeks in the P. H. Corless, during which time we took two hundred and sixty barrels of mackerel. She was about fifty tons burden and carried twelve hands. She fished round this island, between here and North Cape.

11. That I was fishing in the Horatio Babson about four weeks, during which time we took two hundred barrels of mackerel. She was about seventy tons burden and carried fourteen or fifteen hands.

12. That in the Albert Clarence we fished about the Magdalen Islands. I was in her for five weeks. We took two hundred and eighty barrels of mackerel. She was a vessel of one hundred and ten tons burden and carried nineteen hands.

13. That I was out in 1873, B. S. Young, for four weeks. hundred barrels of mackerel. and carried seventeen hands.

the year of the big August storm, in the We did very little in her, only taking one She was a vessel of eighty tons burden

14. That in the Lucinda and Native we fished principally on the American shore. We fished principally out ten or twelve miles from the coast and on the Banks. We did pretty well in the Native but not in the Lucinda.

15. That in all the vessels in which I fished in the gulf, we fished along the shore of the bend of this island, and at the Magdalens right inshore. From one to three miles off is the best fishing-ground.

16. That, including the whole gulf, the American fishing fleet for the past ten years has averaged good six hundred sail. I have counted over three hundred sail of them within sight at one time. They begin to come down here about the middle of June and stop till November, making two or three trips each season.

17. That the American fishermen, both cod and herring fishermen, clean their fish on the fishing-grounds and throw the offal overboard. That hurts the fish. It sickens and poisons the fish, and drives them away from the grounds.

18. That the Americans are now coming down on our shore seining. Some of them have already caught large quantities of fish by seining. Seining destroys the fisheries, as it scares the fish and kills a great many. That is what has injured the fishing on the American shores. 19. That, from what I know of both shores, it would not be worth while for Canadian or island fishermen to fit out for the American shores. It would not pay them to do so.

20. That the privilege of landing their fish, transshipping, and refitting is a great advantage to the Americans, as they lose so much time, I should say, on an average, three weeks each trip, by having to go home with their fish. They can also refit here as cheap as they can at home. The time saved during the season would be at least equal to a trip saved during the year. It is also a great advantage, as enabling them to watch and take advantage of the fish markets, which are very changeable.

21. That I believe the fish come into the gulf through Canso and by Cape North, and then strike for the Magdalen Islands, and from there they strike up towards the North Cape of this island, and towards the north shore generally. The American fishermen understand all about the routes of the fish and follow them up.

JOHN MCINTYRE.

Sworn to at Fairfield, in King's County, Prince Edward Island, this 26th day of July, A. D. 1877, before me, the words opposite my initials having been first interlined or erased.

JAMES MCDONALD, Justice of the Peace for Kings County.

No. 309.

I, MICHAEL MCDONALD, of French River, in New London, in Queen's County, Prince Edward Island, fisherman, make oath and say :

1. That I have been engaged in fishing for about twenty-five years in both boats and schooners. I have been in island, New Brunswick, and American schooners, and I know the fishing grounds well, having fished up the Bay Chaleur, round this island, Cape Breton, the Magdalen Islands, and elsewhere.

2. That there are about one hundred and fifty boats fishing out of New London, the harbor and beach, and the number is increasing fast; it is only about six years since the boats began to go in for fishing to any extent.

3. That the boats take on an average crews of four men each, besides the men employed at the stages, of whom there are a good number.

4. That the boats are now better built, better modeled, and better fitted out than they used to be; people are paying more attention to the business than they did a few years ago; they find that the fishing pays, and that is why people go in for it. There is a class of men now coming on who give their whole attention to fishing and attend to nothing else. 5. That I have been fishing in island vessels for the last eleven years. On board these vessels we used to get from two hundred and fifty to three hundred barrels of mackerel a trip, and we used to make on an average two trips a summer, making for the whole summer average catches of from five to six hundred barrels of mackerel.

6. That we caught about three-quarters of our fish close to shore, within three miles from land. The best fishing is from one mile and one-half to three miles from shore. We used to catch our fish up the Bay Chaleur, round the island coast, and Cape Breton.

7. That I sailed out of Portsmouth in New Hampshire, in the United States, for two years, one year on board the schooner Commonwealth, and the other year on board another schooner, both of which fished down in the bay. They did not do very well, as they did not get more than sixty barrels of mackerel each year. The reason for the smallness of their catch was that they were not well acquainted round the bay and fished too far from the land, catching most of their fish about nine miles off the shore. They would have done better in closer to the shore. At that time the cutters were about and the Americans were afraid of them; some of their schooners were taken by the cutters those years.

8. That I was out one season in the schooner Water Lily, of Carlton, New Brunswick, and on board of her we did pretty well, getting over six hundred barrels of mackerel. She was of about seventy tons burden, and carried seventeen or eighteen hands. These six hundred barrels were nearly all caught around the island shore, mostly all at from one and one-half to three miles from shore.

9. That there have been large fleets of American vessels down in the gulf fishing every year; I have seen as many as two hundred at one time in Port Hood, and that would be only a part of their fleet.

10. That the right to refit and transship the fish is a great advantage to the American fishermen down here in the gulf. They are able to land their fish, send them away in the steamers, and take in another outfit without losing much time. By being able to transship here and refit instead of going home with their fish, they save a fortnight each trip, and that right in the fishing season. That would amount to another trip in the course of the season as a general thing.

11. I do not think it would be worth while for the Americans to fit

out and come down here to fish unless they were allowed to fish within three miles of the shore.

MICHAEL MCDONALD.

Sworn to at French River, in New London, Queen's County, Prince Edward Island, this 12th day of July, A. D. 1877, before me.

No. 310.

JOHN SHARPE,
Justice of the Peace.

I, THOMAS WALSH, of Souris, in King's County, Prince Edward Island, master ma iner, make oath and say:

1. That I have been connected with the fishing business, as a practical fisherman, since the year 1851; that is, twenty-six years, in both boats and vessels. I fished for seven years out of Gloucester, United States, in vessels; thirteen years I fished out of Rustico, in boats. I ran a fishstage there and I am well acquainted with the fishing and the fishing grounds. I have fished down to Seven Islands, up the Bay Chaleur, at Anticosti, the Magdalen Islands, and in fact all over the gulf fishing grounds; and I fished for herring for two winters, in an American vessel, on the coast of Newfoundland.

2. That out of Rustico, New London, and round that side of the island, there is a vast increase and improvement in every way in the boat fishing. There are now twenty boats on that side engaged in fishing, to the one there was when I went there in 1862. The boats themselves have improved two hundred per cent.; they are better in every way. There is now a very large capital invested in the business there now, and it has all been put in during the past few years. These boats, taking large and small together, take crews of four men to each boat, besides stage. men and others employed on shore, who are a large number.

3. That these boats average about fifty quintals of codfish each, and about one hundred barrels of mackerel each, during the season, besides large quantities of herring. There are also plenty of hake in about six fathom of water, or about two miles from shore. The fish caught in Rustico are nearly all, in the spring, sent to Charlottetown and Summerside and the country while fresh, and there sold for good prices. Over there they catch as many herring as they want for mackerel bait, besides what they sell fresh and what they salt for the winter.

4. That the mackerel are nearly all caught from one to four miles from the shore. The greater part of the mackerel, fully two-thirds, are caught within three miles of the shore. The herring are all caught within a few hundred yards of the beach. In the spring the codfish are caught about two miles from land; as the season advances they go further off.

5. The reasons for the big increase in the boat fishing are, that people find there is money in the business, and consequently go into it. There is now also a large class of men whose number is constantly increasing, who have not got any land, and who depend entirely upon fishing. The boat fishing affords employment to these men, which they could not get in any other way. The business, in fact, keeps these men home; it is the support of their families.

6. That I was out for seven years in vessels belonging to the United States. We used to catch from three to eight hundred barrels of mackerel in the season; we would average good five hundred barrels during the season, taking one with another. These fish we caught nearly altogether close to shore, within three miles of the land. The truth is,

there are not many caught more than three miles off, the good fishing is all near the shore. Here this week, the Americans are taking the mackerel with seines close to the shore. The mackerel are now schooling close in, and there are few or none more than three miles off. These seines do a great deal of harm, as they kill a great many small mackerel and other fish, which are thrown away, the seiners only taking the large mackerel. I saw twenty sail of Americans fishing in one bunch within about two miles of the land, on Thursday last, some of them seining. They were fishing between East Point and Saint Peters. The seining destroys the fisheries. The Americans are now scattered all down the coast; they are just now beginning to arrive. There will be a large fleet of them here this summer. There are already about forty sail of them along this shore, and they are coming all the time.

7. If the Americans were not allowed to fish in near the shore, they would not be able to get enough fish off shore to pay the expenses of the crew while out. They might get an odd catch, but that would be all, and they know this.

8. That when the cutters were about these coasts, they prevented the Americans fishing near the shore to a great extent, and consequently damaged their fishing. There were not enough cutters around to keep the vessels off altogether; they used to watch the cutters, and when the smoke was seen the schooners would clear out. I have known some of the Americans leave the bay and fish on their own shore, on account of the cutters.

9. That I fished one summer and four or five falls on the American shore, and there are more fish here than there are on the American shores, and the bay mackerel generally command a better price than the others. There is very poor hook-fishing on their shore; they can only seine.

10. That I have been four or five times down at the Magdalen Islands herring fishing, and there are often a hundred sail of Americans down there for herring. Their cod-fishermen get much of their bait at the Magdalenes, and they catch large quantities for the Swedish and other foreign markets. These herring are all seined close inshore. That is about the best paying branch of the fishing business.

11. That I was two winters at Fortune Bay, in Newfoundland, in American vessels, getting herring. The last winter I was there (1862) there were forty-two sail of Americans in Fortune Bay. In the fall they go up to the Bay of Islands. The last winter I was in Gloucester, there were over twenty sail from that port alone, down at Newfoundland after herring. In the winter time they freeze the herring and send them down to bait their George's fleet; and they also send them to their towns and cities to retail. That is a big business down there for the Americans. 12. The right of transshipment is a very great advantage. I look upon it as the greatest privilege the Americans have got. They can run in from the fishing grounds, land their fish and ship them away to market, without loss of time. They thus save, on an average, three weeks in the trip, and when they have to go home, it is generally right in the good fishing. It is also a great advantage to be able to refit here, as they can buy all their general stores here cheaper than at home. The right of transshipment is also of great advantage to the Americans, as they are thereby enabled to keep themselves well posted up in the markets, and can send their fish in so as to catch good prices. This is a very great thing, as I have known a rise of three and four dollars a barrel in two days for mackerel. The mackerel market is a very variable one.

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