McLaughlin were the two men elected. I was not able to go to the meetings. I never made inquiries, and I have not seen Mr. McLaughlin since.

Q. Are your dealings chiefly with the Americans, and do you take more interest in their affairs?-A. My dealings with them are small; the amount depends on what I catch.

Q. You know more what is going on at Eastport than at St. Andrew's, your own county town. Do you ever send any of your fish to St. Andrew's for sale?-A. Sometimes we sell some there.

Q. Did you ever sell any of your own there?-A. I probably sold a few quintals some years ago; I don't recollect.

Q. You sell your fish altogether at home?-A. Not at home. I ship my fish principally to Eastport, some to Boston.

Q. Do you ship them on your own account?—A. I call it shipping when we send them in vessels.

Q. In what vessels do you send them?-A. In the vessels of the two Duttons and Mr. Ingles.

Q. Do those three gentlemen send their vessels to Boston ?—A. Yes. They get freight from different people who have fish to send.

Q. Did you send any last year? A. Yes.

Q. Did you sell them better at Boston than you could have done at Eastport or St. Andrew's ?—A. I don't think it paid better to send them to Boston; it paid about as well as sending them to Eastport. The freight is high to send them there.

Q. Did you sell any at St. Andrew's ?-A. No.

Q. Can you state how many barrels of pickled fish are put up on the island-A. No.

Q. Can you state what is the catch of fish at the island? How many barrels of herring are pickled and put up at the island?—A. I think scarcely any were caught there last year.

Q. Take last year; how many barrels of pickled herring were put up at the island-A. I could not tell you, because I have not been fishing for some time.

Q. Cannot you form any idea?-A. There might be 100 barrels put up somewhere that I would know nothing of.

Q. Have you any idea what your catch of herring might be at the island?—A. I could not give it; some years they are plentiful and other years they are very scarce.

Q. Can you give the catch for any year?-A. No.

Q. I will take Campobello; can you state how many barrels of herring were caught there any year?-A. I could not; I have no means of knowing.

Q. Take the parish of West Isles; do you know how many were taken there any year?-A. I never fished in Passamaquoddy River. I have known of fish having been taken there.

Q. The fish taken there, I believe, are principally herring and haddock?-A. I understand pollock.

Q. Is pollock taken in great quantities there this year?-A. Yes. Q. Can you state how many boats are employed fishing all round your island?-A. I cannot.

Q. Do you know anything whatever about the fishing on the mainland, in the parish of St. George and Lepreaux?-A. No.

Q. Do you know what is the population of the city of Quebec?—A. I could not say.

Q. Can you tell what is the population of the city of Montreal!-A.'No. Q. Have you any idea at all?—A. I have not.

Q. Can you give the population of Toronto or Ottawa ?-A. No; I never was in those parts.

Q. Will you tell me why it was, in answer to Mr. Foster, that you undertook, on your. oath, to say the catch of fish is so great on your shores that if excluded from the American market there would be no market for them in the Dominion, when you did not know the popula tion of the Dominion cities?-A. We have tried to sell our fish in the Dominion; we sent some up to Canada-to Quebec; some did not pay for the freight. The fish were smoked herring. We have tried to sell them in the Dominion, but found they failed to fetch as much in our markets as in the American markets. If they could not be sold to pay us, they would not pay people to buy them from us at high prices.

Q. When was this notable year when you sent some smoked herring to Quebec-A. Some years ago.

Q. Cannot you give the year?-A. I sent the fish by Mr. Wilson, of Campobello. I suppose it was 15 or 16 years ago.

Q. Can you state whether, at that time, there was not a duty levied in Quebec against New Brunswick fish, for that was before confederation?-A. I don't know, and cannot say as to the duties. They were No. 1 herring, and did not pay expenses.

Q. When you said you sent them by Mr. Wilson, did you mean the late John Wilson, esq.-A. I meant Mr. Edward Wilson, who was drowned.

Q. Was he an island man?—A. He was a Campobello man.

Q. That is the only venture you made in sending fish into Canada.. You sent smoked herring, some so small you could not string them?A. The herring I sent there were not small. The herring put in boxes. must be big enough to string and cure.

Q. Were they not so small you could barely string them?-A. The herring were large enough to string and cure. What I before said was that many herring came into the weirs which are too small to go on the rods.

Q. That shipment was made 15 years ago, and you have never tried the experiment since confederation?-A. Not myself personally.

Q. And yet, notwithstanding that you made only one experiment in sending fish to Canada, and that 15 years ago, before confederation, you testified, in answer to Mr. Foster, that you could not find a market in the Dominion if you were shut out of the American market?—A. When we sell herring at St. John we do not sell them to so good an advantage. Q. When have you sent herring to St. John?-A. I have not sent any personally.

Q. Who did?-A. The people of Grand Manan take some up.

Q. Tell me a single man who has done it.-A. Mr. Morse, of White. head Island. He took up one or two lots of herring during the past winter.

Q. What kind of herring?-A. Smoked No. 1 herring.

Q. You were asked by Mr. Foster how, if the American market was closed, you would go on, and so forth. Do you know anything about what fish can go into the United States free under the Washington Treaty Did you ever hear of the Treaty of Washington at all?-A. No; I don't know I ever did.

Q. Did you ever hear of the Reciprocity Treaty ?-A. I have heard

of it.

Q. Did you ever hear of the Treaty of Washington ?-A. It is what you spoke of, I suppose.

Q. Before I spoke of it, did you ever hear of the Treaty of Washing

ton or know what it meant?-A. I suppose the treaty would be the Reciprocity Treaty.

Q. Do you suppose that would be the old Reciprocity Treaty you spoke of?-A. Yes.

Q. You heard many years ago of the Reciprocity Treaty?—A. I have heard of it.

Q. Do I understand you to say that is the treaty which you suppose is the Treaty of Washington ?-A. Not at present.

Q. Do you say the Reciprocity Treaty and the Washington Treaty are the same, or are they different?—A. The Washington Treaty is what we are now under.

Q. Do you believe or understand that the Reciprocity Treaty was a different treaty from the Treaty of Washington, or the same treaty ?—A. The Reciprocity Treaty I suppose to be different from our free trade.

Q. Do you understand that the Reciprocity Treaty was a separate treaty from the Washington Treaty ?-A. Yes.

Q. Did you ever hear of the Washington Treaty until you entered this room?-A. I cannot say I knew the real rules of the Washington Treaty.

Q. Did you ever hear of the Washington Treaty itself until you came into this room-I don't ask you about the rules?—A. Yes; I have heard the treaty spoken of-the Treaty of Washington.

Q. Do you know what any of its provisions are?—A. No.

Q. Do you know as to whether your frozen fish from the island go into the United States free by the Treaty of Washington or under some other treaty-A. By the Washington Treaty, I suppose.

Q. Do you ever do any cod-fishing around the island?-A. I have

done some, which I have spoken of, on a small scale.

Q. Do you catch the cod close inshore or far off?-A. We catch them from in 15 to 35 fathoms of water. We catch them inshore at certain times from half a mile of the shore to 4 or 5 miles occasionally.

Q. Do you catch them from half a mile to 4 or 5 miles of the shore?— A. It depends on where we find the fish.

Q. Where do you find most of them?-A. That is uncertain; some days we find them on one ground and some days on another.

Q. They are all taken, you say, from half a mile to five miles of the shore?-A. I say those I fish.

Q. What do you say about the others?-A. Of course, vessels and large boats go further out, and vessels even go to Grand Manan Bank, which is nearly out of sight of Grand Manan.

Q. How far from the shore?-A. It is 25 miles to the southwst of Grand Manan. You can just see Grand Manan from it on a clear day. There is about as good fishing there as as anywhere for our vessels this year.

Q. How do you know that?-A. People tell me so, and my own relations tell me so.

Q. Do I understand that the boat-fishing is conducted from a half to 4 or 5 miles off?-A. Yes; the principal boat-fishing.

Q. Can you state whether the greater part of the catch is obtained within 2 miles of the shore or 5 miles out?-A. It varies with different seasons. In summer the greater part is caught out. In early spring the fish come inshore. In the fall and cold weather the fish follow the weir herring and we catch them inshore again.

Q. Then the best fishing, taking all the year round, is inshore ?-A. No doubt.

Q. That is for cod?—A. Yes.

Q. Are the herring which are taken in weirs and boats at the island taken very close inshore ?-A. Not far out. There are places with 10 or 11 feet of water between islands, and the fish are all inside of some island.

Q. They are all inshore?—A. Inshore fish we call them.

Q. For what purpose do the Americans buy your frozen fish ?—A. To peddle them; retail them out and dispose of them for consumption by the people. I understand they sell them in large quantities if they can, and if not in small quantities.

Q. Do you know if any Gloucester vessels come down for herringbait with which to go cod-fishing on the Banks?-A. Yes. I have known them come there. Last May I saw two American vessels there, and one of our small vessels go out to them. I was told that Judson Richardson sold one 20 barrels of bait, and the other 25 barrels.

Q. Those vessels were going out to fish cod?-A. Yes. They went direct away. I saw the vessels.

Q. Do American vessels come down and fish along the shore for herring, to your knowledge ?-A. They occasionally have nets; they would likely do so.

Q. Do they do so as a fact ?—A. I do not go on board to know whether they fish for herring or not.

Q. Do you see them lying at anchor close to the island with nets?— A. Not with nets out.

Q. Do you mean to say you have never seen any American vessel for the last seven or eight, or three or four years, fishing for bait close by the island-A. They set a net occasionally, but they generally buy their bait; they would rather buy it.

Q. Do they often come to buy bait?-A. Yes. There have been half a dozen during the summer.

Q. What is the average size of vessels which come in for bait?—A. Vessels ranging from 40 to 60 tons.

Q. Where do American vessels go to get the bait?-A. Wherever they can find it. They come to North Head, and if it is not to be had there, they come to Long Island.

Q. You know that the herring spawn at the island, and that it is a breeding ground for them?-A. Yes.

Q. That is, North Head?-A. South Head is the spawning ground for herring.

Q. That is a great spawning-ground?-A. Yes.

Q. Did you ever know American vessels come there ?-A. They come in the fall and buy herring, but I never knew them set a net.

Q. Do you know what is the close season for herring ?-A. From 15th July to 25th September, I think.

Q. Is it not from 15th June to 15th October?-A. It is during three months, I think.

Q. During that time, you know, it is unlawful to take herring ?-A. Yes; that is, during the close season.

Q. Do you know if Americans have come in and taken herring off this very ground?-A. I don't know it myself.

Q. Did you ever hear of it?-A. I can't say I did.

Q. Where did you hear that American fishermen came in during the close season and took herring?—A. I did not say I did.

Q. Where was it you got the idea?-A. I never heard that American fishermen came in and set their nets on the spawning ground during the close season. There were 19 sail of Bankers, Gloucester vessels, two years ago this fall, which came and anchored between two islands, off

Sea Cove. The people sold them herrings. I saw the vessels going out. But I was not told they set any nets, or anything of the kind.

Q. How did they get the herring?—A. They bought them from the people.

Q. How far do you live from South Head, the breeding ground for herring-A. Fifteen or sixteen miles.

Q. Can you see it from where you live?-A. No.

Q. Then you don't know what is going on there ?-A. Vessels might come in and go out and I not see them. I saw the vessels I have mentioned in the fall getting herring; but I never heard that they went in and caught fish during the three months they are not allowed to take them.

Q. Does Mr. McLaughlin live near the breeding-ground?—A. Quite

near.

Q. He would know, would he not?-A. He would know if the ves sels were there.

Q. You stated that the people of the island were first, to your idea, to set trawls?-A. The first I heard of trawling-fishing.

Q. Will you state the names of those on the island who first set trawl-nets?—A. There are a great many of them. I can tell you the names of some; but a great many people have moved in there during the last five or six years whom I don't know.

Q. How long ago was it that you first heard of trawl-fishing ?—A. The first time I heard of them setting trawls was three summers ago, I think. They might have been trawl-fishing before that. There have been three summers' trawl-fishing on our coast.

Q. That is the first time you ever heard of it?—A. Yes. It is three years ago that the people spoke of it.

Q. You never heard of the system of trawl-fishing before you heard that it was followed by some people in your island ?—A. Yes.

Q. Where?-A. I have talked with Maine fishermen, and they told me they had used trawls, and they considered it hurt the fishing.

Q. Did they tell you that the trawl-fishing had destroyed their fisher. ies?-A. They considered it was a wasteful way and destroyed them. Q. Did they tell you their fisheries were destroyed by trawl-fishing?— A. Five years ago I talked with Mr. Smith and Mr. Wickerton about trawl-fishing.

Q. That was the first time you ever heard of trawl-fishing?—A. Yes; the first time I ever had any conversation about it.

Q. And two years after that you heard of your people setting trawls?A. Three summers ago the people of North Head commenced.

Q. Do the Americans trawl very much in the waters round the island-A. Probably when the fish are there; the fish have not been there so much.

Q. Have the Americans been trawling there during the last four or five years?-A. The people say they have had trawls out.

Q. And you believe that mode is destructive to fishing?-A. That is what the people who use trawls tell me. I never use trawls.

Q. The reason is because you do not think it a proper mode of fish. ing?-A. I don't think it is a proper way to fish.

Q. And yet the Americans come in year after year and use trawls. Have you seen them use trawls this year?-A. I have not been out fishing.

Q. Have you heard of it ?—A. They have not come in. American fishermen were close inshore when the fish were course they used trawls the same as our men did.

Last fall the there, and of