Q. Where did they fish?-A. At the Magdalens, off Bradley and Orphan.

Q. For codfish ?-A. Yes.

Q. You sent them away without any bait at all?-A. Yes.

Q. What bait did they catch?-A. Herring.

Q. With nets?—A. Yes.

Q. In 1867 you sent a vessel in again?-A. Yes.

Q. Did she take bait ?—A. Yes.

Q. Were you in her?-A. No, I was home.

Q. Where did she fish?—A. About the Cape Breton shore.

Q. Why did she not go to the Magdalens right off? That is your favorite grounds.-A. I do not know. I was not master.

Q. Did you give no directions to the master?-A. No.

Q. You gave him a roving commission to go where he liked ?—A. Yes.

Q. And in fact he didn't go to the Magdalens ?-A. No.
Q. You have no idea why he didn't go?-A. No.

Q. Are you serious about that, that you don't know why he didn't go?-A. I don't know anything about it. He steered his own ship.

Q. Was he a good captain, an experienced captain ?-A. Yes.

Q. It never entered your head that he would not go because it was dangerous?-A. All that I looked out for was that he got a license.

Q. But a license would not save him from storms? It never struck you that he didn't go there because it was dangerous?—A. I didn't care where he went, as long as he got plenty of fish.

Q. Did he get a full fare?-A. he got 80 barrels.

Q. How long was she doing it?-A. Six weeks.

Q. How many barrels would she carry?-A. About 400 barrels.

Q. Then he started when he got 80 barrels and didn't go to the Magdalens? Didn't you ask him why he didn't go to the Magdalens, and whether he went to the bight of the Island? You didn't ask him at all? Do you believe he stayed all around the shores of Cape Breton?— A. I think he did.

Q. He told you so ?-A. I do not know what conversation he had. Q. How is it possible that you can say you think he stayed around those shores? Are you serious in saying that he stayed around there?— A. All I know is that he went fishing aud returned. I heard him tell about being around Cape Breton.

Q. He came back with about one-third of a cargo, and you never asked him why he didn't leave the Cape Breton shores? How far is it from Cape Breton to the Magdalen Islands?-A. About 50 miles, I think.

Q. He could run over there in a short time?—A. In a few hours. Q. And you never took the pains to inquire why he didn't go? Did you ever ask him why he didn't fish around Prince Edward Island?— A. I don't know, I am sure.

Q. Well, was he communicative enough to tell you he got those eighty barrels inshore, within three miles? Did he tell you that?-A. I don't know whether he did or not. I know he had a license.

Q. Is the inshore fishery considered a good fishery upon Cape Breton and the island?-A. The inshore fishery around Cape Breton is good. They catch more there than anywhere.

Q. How about the island? Is it considered a good fishery?—A. I never knew any vessels get any great hauls inshore.

Q. Do you consider the inshore fishery around Prince Edward Island good?-A. Not within three miles.

Q. You think it is worth nothing?-A. Nothing; it is worthless.

Q. In 1855 was it worth anything?-A. No; there were just a few. Q. Immediately after the Reciprocity Treaty it became useless, did it? A. I don't know; I never was catching any mackerel, only those 20 barrels.

Q. You never were on the island yourself at all, fishing, except in 1851-A. That is all. In 1855 I fished awhile in there.

Q. Where then ?—A. Off Souris.

Q. Close in?-A. Three or four miles. I suppose it was within the limits.

Q. If you were three or four miles you were not within the limits.A. We were close in.

Q. Do you mean within three miles?-A. Yes.

Q. Although you knew the inshore fishing was no good, you took out a license and paid $50 odd for it?-A. $81.

Q. Although you thought it was worth nothing. That is a curious. thing, is it not?-A. Well, I had a new vessel, worth $11,000, and I didn't care to lose her. She might go inshore and get caught, and I might have a lawsuit, and so it might cost more than she was worth to get her back.

Q. Then you paid not because you wanted to fish inshore, but because you were afraid the cruisers would catch you, although fishing outside? -A. That is the very idea.

Q. But you paid $81 for the privilege of fishing inshore, although you knew it was worth nothing?-A. I instructed the captain to buy a license, and not to risk the vessel in there.

Q. You had a pretty good reason for that. You supposed he would probably fish inshore?-A. I didn't know whether he would fish inshore or not. I didn't ask him, and I didn't know whether he fished in there or not. All I knew was that he fished around the shores of Cape Breton and Prince Edward Island.

Q. Did you ever send a vessel in since ?-A. Not for mackerel.

Q. You stated in answer to Mr. Trescot that you would rather have the duties put on and be excluded from British waters; do you mean that-A. I do.

Q. If that is the case, how do you account for it that so many Ameri can fishermen went into the gulf and ran the risk of being captured, if they are all of your opinion?-A. I do not know whether I take your meaning.

(Question repeated.) Well.

Q. You say you would rather have the duty paid; you think you would make more money; you are speaking as a fisherman?-A. Yes. Q. You would have a better market for your fish? Under the pres ent system the consumer gets his fish cheaper, does he not? You would make the consumer pay that $200 duty. You would sell your fish $200 higher? A. Yes.

Mr. TRESCOT. That is political economy.

Mr. THOMSON. Why did you ask him?

Mr. TRESCOT. I asked him simply which system he would prefer.

Mr. THOMSON. I am asking him why.

Q. And you say the reason is that you would get so much money in your pocket at the expense of the people that eat fish. Is not that the whole story?-A. Certainly.

Q. So that if Mr. Trescot lived in the same place and was partial to mackerel you would make him pay more and he would have to lose it! Now, you spoke about getting bait for codfish on you own shores. Don't

you know that the Gloucester fishermen run down to Grand Mahan to get bait in the spring and other seasons as well?-A. I do know it.

Q. Don't you know that the fishermen of your coast also run to the coast of Nova Scotia and get bait, ice, &c., for cod-fishing ?—A. I do. Q. Why do they not get it on your own shores ?-A. It is handier to their fishing grounds.

Q. Isn't it handy to get it before they leave? Why do they not do so?-A. The vessels I have reference to were fishing on our own coasts. Q. Have you plenty of bait on your own coast, squid and all that?— A. Yes.

Q. Then the story of the bluefish coming down and eating up all the bait and killing the squid is nonsense?-A. They are there in the spring and one school in September.

Q. In the mean time, where do the bluefish get their food? We heard yesterday that they were there depopulating the waters altogether?A. The bluefish drive the squid inshore. That is where we get the greater part of it.

Q. The squid are driven in by the bluefish-A. Yes. Well, they come in there and they have always come in since I was a bɔy.

Q. The bluefish come after them?-A. Yes.

Q. And eat them?-A. I bet they do.

Q. They leave enough for you to get bait? Now, are you serious about that?-A. Yes. They come in, and the first thing that you know the squid will be all gone.

Q. How long do they stay?-A. Sometimes a fortnight and sometimes a month.

Q. I thought you said the first thing you knew they were gone? What do you mean by that if they stay a month ?-A. They are there twentynine days, and the first thing you know they are gone.

Q. Now you state that they stay a month?-A. Sometimes a month and sometimes a fortnight. Sometimes they stay all summer.

Q. What are the bluefish doing?-A. Eating them.

Q. While the bluefish are doing this are you getting bait ?—A. Some years we are and some we are not.

Q. You don't get squid every year?-A. No.

Q. What else?-A. We can go down the coast of Maine and get pogies.

Q. Do you use pogies for cod fish?-A. Yes; it is the best bait. Q. Is it the best bait?-A. No; one of the best. Squid is the best. Q. What better bait is there than pogies ?-A. The squid and mackerel are better.

Q. And the herring?-A. They are equally good.

Q. Why do you say that pogy is one of the best baits when you admit that herring is equally good, and that two others, the squid and mackerel, are better?-A. Well, for the Georges the pogies are best. They keep longer in ice.

Q. You cannot fish with salt bait to any practical purpose? Can you, practically, for codfish use anything else?-A. Salt clams and sliv. ers. Going on the Banks fishing, most of our vessels carry clams; some carry slivers.

Q. Do you use salt bait for any other purpose than trawling?—A. Pogy bait? We grind it up for mackerel-bait.

Q. I am speaking of cod fishing. Do you use it for any other purpose than trawling?-A. Salt bait? I do not understand your ques

Q. Do you use salt bait for any other kind of fishing than trawling?— A. We use it hand-lining also.

Q. Which do you use it for most, hand-lining or trawling?—A. That depends on the way we fish..

Q. Is salt bait just as good as fresh ?-A. Fresh bait is the best.
Q. Is it not more generally used?-A. When you can get it.

Q. If you can, it is much better than salt?-A. Yes.

Q. Practically, the salt bait cannot compete with the fresh bait ?—A. No; it is not as good as fresh.

Q. Don't the vessels that run over here from the United States, and get bait from Nova Scotia, use fresh bait altogether?—A. Yes; the Cape Ann vessels do.

Q. Don't they from Gloucester as well?-A. The Gloucester vessels use fresh bait altogether.

Q. They run up the bay of Fundy to Grand Manan ?-A. Yes.

Q. They don't care for salt bait ?-A. No. They have a different way of fishing from our vessels.

Q. How different?-A. They make shorter trips on the whole. Our vessels make a long trip. They are full of salt bait and provisions, and calculate to see no port until they return again.

Q. Don't the Cape Ann vessels do that?-A. Most of them make short trips, I think.

Q. What do you mean by that?-A. They get their fish and go out and use it, and then come back for more. They get a good deal of bait at Sandy Point.

Q. Where is that?-A. It is at Cape Cod.

Q. That is the first trip, I suppose. Do they come back after they use that or get it elsewhere? They use that up?-A. Yes; the weirs are taken up about the 1st of June.

Q. Then where do they go to get bait?-A. They get a great deal of bait on the coast of Maine-pogies.

Q. Do they come back to the coast of Maine afterward to get more bait, after they run out?-A. I don't think they do-those at the Grand Bank.

Q. Where do they go to get bait? Don't they go to the Newfoundland coast—A. I think they do.

Q. Do you know they do?-A. I never had any vessels but one do it. Q. Don't you know from people telling you ?—A. I think they do. Q. That is a considerable privilege, is it not, to be able to come into our waters to get bait without going all the way back to the coast of Maine or Massachusetts? What do you say to that? Say it is not if you like.-A. I don't know. I never had any vessel that went. I could not tell except about my own.

Q. You never heard the people that are engaged in the business say it was a privilege?-A. No; I never heard the Cape Ann people. I never had any dealings with it, and do not know anything about it.

Q. As a practical fisherman, do you know or do you believe it to be a privilege?-A. It is no privilege to us.

Q. If you don't engage in the fisheries it is no privilege, but for those engaged in the fisheries, is it not? Say that it is not or say that it is.A. The privilege would be the result arising from it.

Q. I do not care in what light you consider it. I want to know whether you consider it a privilege or not?-A. I do not know. I never had any vessels do it.

Q. As a practical fisherman, I again ask you to give me an answer, if you will, or decline to say whether you do not consider it a privilege for

these vessels to be able to land on the coast of Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, or Cape Breton to get bait and go back?—A. I have known vessels come down and spend a month and not got bait and then go back. Q. Is that any answer to my question ?-A. I cannot say whether it is any privilege or not. I do not know.

Q. Can you swear that you have no opinion, either? That is the question I put.-A. I have never formed any opinion about it.

Q. And you won't form one now for me, will you? I suppose it would not take any length of time. Suppose you sit down and form an opinion?-A. I do not form opinions without evidence to show me which way to decide.

Q. In point of fact, then, I understand you to swear that you have no facts before you upon which you can form an opinion and that you have formed none?-A. I have none, as far as the Cape Ann fishermen are concerned, that I am interested in.

Q. As far as your fishermen are concerned, they do not go there?—A. Where?

Q. Do they use this privilege-I mean your own vessels ?-A. No; well, they go to Newfoundland sometimes.

Q. Is that a privilege? Perhaps you have formed an opinion about that?-A. I never had but one vessel go in, and that was disastrous to

me.

Q. Was it in consequence of that privilege that she met with disas ter?-A. She was out late and didn't come in until Christmas. If she

Mг. THOMSON proceeds to put a question.

Mr. TRESCOT. Let him finish his answer.

Mr. THOMSON. I didn't ask him about vessels going in. He answered my question and said he had only one vessel that went in and that was disastrous. I asked him if he considered that disaster overtook him because of this privilege.

Mr. FOSTER. He was proceeding to answer that very question.

By Mr. Thomson :

Q. Do you think this disaster overtook you because of this privilege--A. No, certainly, because she would have got her bait and taken her fish and come home if the squid had been there.

Q. You wish us to understand that if you had not been tempted by this privilege your vessel would not have suffered the loss?-A. Yes. O. Do you say for that reason that this privilege is a mere deception and a snare?-A. I think as far as Provincetown is concerned that it is worthless.

Q. Why is it worthless; because they send no vessels there?-A. Because the vessels that go with salt bait return quick and with full fares.

Q. Then the Provincetown vessels don't avail themselves of this privilege-A. They do some.

Q. Those that go with salt bait ?—A. No.

Q. Didn't you tell me just now it was worthless, because they went with salt bait and returned with full fares?-A. I do say that.

Q. Don't you want the Commissioners to understand that all the Provincetown vessels go with salt bait ?-A. I wish them to understand that those that go with salt bait make better voyages and return with better fares.

Q. Do any Provincetown vessels go for fresh bait?-A. They carry fresh bait sometimes leaving Provincetown.