Q. Fishing? A. Yes; but I cannot commit my memory to every time and place.

Q. Did you go there every year when you came to the bay to fish?— A. I think that I did.

Q. You generally, as others do, have run down the north side of the island?-A. Well, if I go there, I do. I have run 7 times out of 10 from Canso to Magdalen Islands.

Q. When you and others have come to the bay, have you and they not made a practice of fishing off the north coast of Prince Edward Island ?—A. Í have tried there, I think, every year that I was in the bay, but I cannot tell what my neighbors have done.

Q. Have you not seen other vessels fishing there?-A. Yes. I presume that they were fishing or trying to fish.

Q. Have you any doubt of it at all?-A. No; not in the least.

Q. Off what parts of the island did you use to fish; for instance, did you fish from East Point down to Two Chapels ?-A. Yes; I tried there last year; but I could not command my memory to any other year in particular in this respect, but still I have no doubt that I have done so. Q. It is a well-known fishing-ground to many Gloucester fishermen, is it not?-A. I presume that it is.

Q. Is that not the fact?-A. I have stated that I have fished there, and I have seen my neighbors there.

Q. Have you fished or seen vessels fishing down off Rustico and Malpeque Harbors ?-A. Malpeque-yes. I have fished there and tried there; and I was in Malpeque Harbor last year and one year before.

Q. Going up farther west, off Cascumpeque, Kildare, and North Cape, have you fished there?-A. I do not remember fishing on this side of North Cape, farther than Tignish Chapel.

Q. That is also a fishing ground pretty well known among Gloucester fishermen, and one of the points which you make?—A. I presume so. Q. Did you fish on the other side of North Cape, off Miminegash ?— A. I do not know of such a place.

Q. It lies between North and West Capes?-A. I do not remember fishing there.

Q. When would you go to Prince Edward Island, or would you select any special part of the season to do so?—A. I was there last year dur ing this month.

Q. How was it during previous years, 1864, '65, '67, or '68 ?—A. I cannot commit my memory to the time of the year when I was there; one trip excepted.

Q. Would you go there when you went up to the bay in the spring, or did you do so later, in September or October?-A. Well, I never have been there earlier than in July as I know of.

Q. Do you generally strike the Magdalen Islands during the first trip for mackerel ?-A. Yes. I have gone there 7 times out of 10.

Q. And when would you leave these islands?—A. I fished there until I got my trip, if I found the mackerel there.

Q. I do not notice your having got any one trip at the Magdalen Islands alone.-A. O, I think I have stated that I did get a full trip there.

Q. Have you ever fished on the west shore of New Brunswick, from Miscou down to Richibucto?-A. No; not that I remember of.

Q. You may have done so and have forgotten it?-A. I think not. I think if I had fished there I would remember it.

Q. Did you ever fish in the Bay of Chaleurs ?-A. I have tried there. Q. Have you seen other vessels there?-A. I presume that I have.

Q. You know whether you did or not?-A. I went in to procure

water.

Q. Have you seen other vessels there?—A. Yes.

Q. Fishing?-A. I would not swear to that.

Q. What is your belief?—A. I believe that part, if not all of them, which I saw were coasting-vessels. I have now reference to one time in particular.

Q. Do I understand you to say you have no recollection of ever having seen American vessels fishing in the Bay of Chaleurs ?-A. To my certain knowledge, no.

Q. What do you mean by "certain knowledge"?-A. To my knowledge. The vessels I saw there I suppose were, as to the most of them, coasters. I saw very few, and them only once that I remember of.

Q. Did you try to fish there then?-A. Yes.

Q. On which shore did you do so?-A. I filled with water on the Canadian side and I presume that I tried there.

Q. At what harbor?-A. Cascapediac.

Q. When was this?-A. I think that it was in 1863.

Q. You were then in the Julia Grace ?-A. Yes.

Q. You were never in the Bay of Chaleurs previously?-A. Not to my recollection.

Q. Have you ever fished much up around the Gaspé shore?—A. No. Q. Perhaps you were never to the north of that or at Seven Islands? -A. No.

Q. You have never been there at all?—A. No.

Q. Do you know whether the American fishing fleet go there or not? -A. I do not know.

Q. You have never heard of it?-A. I heard Mr. Friend state outside to-day that he was there.

Q. Before your conversation with Mr. Friend about it to-day have you heard many Americans say that they had fished about Seven Islands, and speak of it as one of the points where they used to fish? A. No.

Q. Nor Gaspé ?—A. I could not say as to that.

Q. Have you heard them speak of fishing around the Gaspé shore ?A. That is near Bonaventure, is it not?

Q. Yes.-A. Well, I presume that I have.

Q. Do you not know whether you have or not?-A. I should not want to swear to it.

Q. Have you a doubt in your own mind about this part being spoken of as one of the points where they caught mackerel?-A. We are talking about fishing all the time when on our trips, and I would not swear that I have heard of it during my voyages.

Q. Or that you have not ?-A. No; we are talking about the fishing grounds all the time while fishing, and a man may have mentioned that last year, and still I would not remember it.

Q. Have you ever heard them talk about Prince Edward Island as one of their fishing grounds?—A. Yes.

Q. Often?-A. Yes.

Q. Many of them ?-A. Plenty of them.

Q. A great many of them ?-A. Yes.

Q. You know a great many people, or some at any rate, from Prince Edward Island who have sailed from Gloucester in fishing vessels?—A. I know some-yes.

Q. And you have heard the island constantly and often talked of?-A. Yes.

Q. Have you heard the Cape Breton shore, between Cheticamp and Margaree and around Margaree Island, spoken of as one of the fishing grounds of American fishermen ?-A. Yes.

Q. Often?-A. Yes.

Q. And as one of the best fishing grounds?—A. I never heard it spoken of in that way.

Q. Have you ever heard it mentioned as a place where the best fish are taken in the fall?-A. No.

Q. In 1864 you were in the Joseph Storey, and you stated at first that you got your first trip at the Magdalen Islands, and afterward you corrected yourself and said that was wrong; what really is the fact?-A. The fact is that I caught the whole trip at the Magdalen Islands, and I do not think that I altered that statement.

Q. I understood you to alter it.-A. If I did, I was wrong. I caught them all at the Magdalen Islands.

Q. How far out around the Magdalen Islands did you fish?—A. When I speak of fishing round them, I mean inshore, and off shore I could not determine the distance round, but the distances off shore would vary from 2 to 30 miles.

Q. Is the bulk of the fish caught near the shores of these islands?— A. The bulk of mine was not so taken.

Q. Is the bulk of the fish taken near their shores by other people?— A. I do not know.

Q. You have no knowledge of what others have caught there?—A. No more than seeing their vessels fishing where I was.

Q. You really cannot tell whether the bulk of the fish is caught inshore there or not?-A. Other vessels might have done so, but I did not.

Q. What proportion of yours was caught there within the three-mile limit?-A. A small proportion; possibly from 15 to 25 barrels in the trip I made there.

Q. That number out of 270 or 280?—A. Yes.

Q. And the rest were caught from 15 to 20 miles from the islands?— A. From 2 to 30 miles off.

Q. During that trip?-A. And in fact during every trip I was there. Q. Did you fish on Bank Bradley during your first trip?-A. No. I fished then entirely at the Magdalen Islands.

Q. And where did you fish on your second trip?-A. At the Magdalen islands.

Q. That year?-A. Yes.

Q. You caught it altogether there?-A. Yes.

Q. And on your third trip you fished about East Point and Marga ree, and caught three-quarters of your fish within the three-mile limit. How much did you catch on your third trip that year?-A. 240 barrels, and I caught them at Margaree Island.

Q. How far from the island?-A. It is difficult to determine that. I presume that I caught three-quarters of that trip within the limits. Q. Would you like to swear that you caught one-quarter of it outside the three-mile limit?-A. I should.

Q. Why?-A. Because I fished well off shore.

Q. And you are perfectly clear in your recollection as to three-quar ters of the trip being taken inside and one-quarter of it outside of the limits? A. Yes; to the best of my judgment.

Q. Is that the only time when you fished around Margaree ?-A. Yes; that year.

Q. Did you fish there at any other time?-A. I believe not.

Q. Then, so far as you personally are concerned, the fish caught about Margaree are taken in the proportion of three-quarters inside and onequarter outside of the 3-mile limit; and that, and that alone, has been your experience?-A. That is my experience.

Q. In 1865, you went in the same vessel. Where did you then get your first trip?-A. At the Magdalen Islands.

Q. With the same result as during previous years?-A. I presume so. Q. You did not fish on Bank Bradley at all?-A. Not on my first trip the second year.

Q. And during your second trip that year you caught some off North Cape and some on Bank Bradley. How far off North Cape was it?—A. I think I caught my second trip, in 1865, at the Magdalen Jslands, and I think I stated so; but if I did not do so there, I caught them off North Cape.

Q. You are not sure where you took them; but if you fished at North Cape, how far off from it were you?-A. I think I stated that I fished at the Magdalen Islands on that trip, and I think I said so; but that has nothing to do with it. My memory is bad.

Q. You do not recollect where you caught that second trip?-A. I think now that I caught one trip in that vessel about North Cape; but I cannot exactly say whether it was that trip or a trip in the ensuing year.

Q. If you caught them at North Cape, can you tell what you took inside and what outside of 3 or 4 miles from the shore ?-A. In that case I caught a small proportion of the trip inside the limits.

Q. When you fished off Prince Edward Island, was it your practice to run in and drift off?-A. If the wind was off shore, I would do so; but if the wind was inshore, I would not.

Q. You do not fish inshore at Prince Edward Island with an inshore wind?-A. No.

Q. Is it not a fact that 5 days out of 6 during the fishing season, the wind there blows offshore ?-A. That was not the case when I was there. The little I have been there was usually in September. Then the weather sets in blowy and it gets blustery. You are as likely to get the wind from the northwest as from the southwest at this time in my experience. Where I was one could fish, I think, as well with a northwest wind as if it was from the southwest.

Q. You do not mean to say that you fished within the 3 miles of the shore with a northwest wind?-A. I could do so down at Georgetown. Q. And I dare say you have done so ?-A. I do not remember particularly of having done so.

Q. Have you ever fished off Georgetown?-A. Not that I remember of. I have not fished nearer it than on Fisherman's Bank.

Q. That is about 7 miles from East Point?-A. I think it is more than that, but I do not remember the exact distance.

Q. When you spoke of having taken your third trip that year between the Magdalen Islands and Cape Breton, did you mean that you caught them off North Cape, C. B., or between the Magdalen Islands and Margaree, or partly in one place and partly in another?-A. I mean between Entry Island and Cheticamp, or between that and Cape North. Q. How far offshore are the fish generally taken about Cheticamp?— A. Farther off than about Margaree.

Q. How far off?-A. When I speak of fishing inshore, I mean fishing from 3 to 5 and 8 miles from the shore.

Q. How far off shore have you been accustomed to fish about Cheticamp?-A. From 2 to 8 and 9 miles.

Q. Have you caught many fish within the 3-mile limit there?-A. No. Q. You have never fished there often ?-A. I fished there part of one trip.

Q. And that is all?-A. Yes.

Q. The next year, 1869, you fished in the same vessel, taking the first trip off the Magdalen Islands; the second off North Cape, and the third around the Magdalen Islands, East Point, and Cape George; what proportion of the third trip was taken off East Point and Cape George, and what proportion within the limit?—A. From 25 to 30 barrels.

Q. You said you did that on the second trip that year?-A. I presume that I did.

Q. You said that the third trip was a mixed trip, and that you caught some of the fish at the Magdalen Islands, but the most of them about East Point and Cape George ?-A. I do not remember saying that I took the most of them there. I stated that it was what I call a mixed trip. Some were caught at the Magdalen Islands; some between these islands and Cheticamp, some between that and East Point, and some between that and Fisherman's Bank.

Q. You kept no account of what were taken within the limits, and of what were not so caught in 1866 ?—A. No.

Q. Had you a license in 1866?-A. Yes.

Q. So you had a right to go inshore, and you did not keep any special account regarding your catch ?-A. Yes; as far as the license is concerned.

Q. You stated the gulf inshore fisheries were of no use?—A. I did not say they were of no use; at least I do not remember of having done so.

Q. Why then did you take out a license and pay for it?-A. One reason why I did so was my owners advised me to do it; and another reason was, if I was in and made a harbor and wanted to try inshore, I wished to do so without running the risk of being taken.

Q. You could make a harbor without a license?-A. Certainly. I said that if I was inshore in a harbor, I might try for fish within the limits. Q. Then the inshore fisheries are of some value?—A. If you can catch any fish inshore-yes.

Q. Have you seen many boats fishing along the coast of Prince Edward Island?-A. I have; some.

Q. Only a few, I suppose?-A. I have seen as many as 30 at a time, I think, while passing along the shore.

Q. Do you know of any place in the world where there is a better boat-fishery than there is off Prince Edward Island?-A. I could not say; I was never boat-fishing.

Q. Have you seen as many as 30 boats there in one place ?-A. I saw them along the island. I do not think there is a place about the island with 30 boats, where I could see them fishing from my vessel's deck.

Q. How far off could you see them?-A. Four miles, I presume. Q. Would it surprise you to learn that in some of the harbors of the island there are as many as 150 and 180 boats?-A. No; I do not doubt your word.

Q. When you saw those boats fishing how far off from the shore were they?-A. From 2 to 7 miles off the island.

Q. What size was a boat which fished 7 miles off shore?-A. I presume that it was an open boat. I know in fact that most of them were open boats, but I could not give their dimensions. I would not wish to try to do so.