H. OF R.]

Apportionment Bill.

[JAN. 18, 1832.

Mr. TRACY, of New York, said he understood that on the present motion the merits of the whole bill were a fair subject for discussion at this time, and he should assume this to be correct in the few observations which he purposed to submit to the committee.

increase. I do not, certainly, wish to see this House di- tion, that the people must be represented where they are, minished, nor, with the present population of the country, and not where they are not. increased beyond what is proposed by the ratio of fortyeight thousand. When gentlemen speak of numerous representatives in State Legislatures, or in the English Parliament, and argue from thence that two hundred and for ty-one members are too few here, I must ask them to remember that local interests and small matters in detail I cannot but regret, said Mr. T., to have witnessed, for constitute extensively subjects of State legislation, which the two last days, the impatience evinced by many gentleis not the fact here; we legislate upon general and national men, while members have been expressing their views or objects. And as to the English Parliament, why, the re- the subject of the apportionment bill, which I consider one presentatives in Congress are expected, all of them, con- of grave moment, and probably as important in its effects stantly to attend and understand the business before them, on the future legislation of this country, as any which will and to participate in it, as most of them do, to the advan- be discussed here during the present session. It was protage of the country, but this is not the case in Parliament; vided in our constitution that the actual enumeration of six hundred there, does not ordinarily give as good a re- our population should be made within three years after the presentation or as large a House as two hundred here. first meeting of Congress, "and within every subsequent Should all the members of Parliament attend as we do here, term of ten years." This subject, then, is one, not of anand participate as we do in the business and debates of the nual recurrence; it never has and never can arise oftener House, the business of the nation would never be done. I than once in ten years, according to the former usages of would not object to forty-six thousand, though I think our Government. It, therefore, becomes peculiarly our forty-eight gives a better House, and is more in accordance duty to canvass the subject fairly and fully; to act with with the past. The honorable gentleman from Massachu- great deliberation and mature reflection in deciding upon setts [Mr. ADAMS] complains of the hardship of losing a its merits; and to endeavor to reconcile the discordant senmember, and almost pronounces it injustice. It is to reply timents of the different members composing this committo this consideration that I rise at this time. Why, sir, the tee. Most of those questions which are acted upon here, ratio of forty-four may do more injustice to the whole peo- present two aspects; and gentlemen, without much diffiple than forty-eight: in having four representatives, we culty, are able to arrive at a conclusion satisfactory to may not have as equal a representation as in losing them their own judgments; but, from the very nature of this from certain States. We are, as to this matter, to look to subject, there might be a great diversity of opinions as the whole, to the relative representation of the States on to details, as every one who proposes an amendment prethis floor; and, if we apply the same rule, we have the sents, in fact, a new side of the question, and, in support same relative representation, whether that represen- of his opinion, is able to urge arguments both cogent and tation be smaller or greater; fractions only make the reasonable. difference, and in this the greatest States are the least sufferers.

The present House of Representatives is composed of two hundred and thirteen members; the bill reported will give us two hundred and thirty-seven; and, should we adopt the proposed amendment, our number would be two hundred and fifty-seven; an average of forty-six be

Now, sir, the fractional difference between forty-four and forty-eight thousand is only about forty thousand; certainly too small to rest an objection upon; and, indeed, taking any number from forty-four to fifty-four, the frac-yond our present representation. tional difference does not exceed one hundred and fifty Sir, said Mr. T., I cannot but consider the report of a thousand; not enough to bring into this House three re- respectable committee of this House, to which an importpresentatives. So that, after all, there is nothing here ant subject has been referred, as deserving of great conbut a question of numbers in this House. No State can sideration, and I am generally disposed to receive their complain, if it is best to take forty-eight. Sir, if any State report as based upon correct principles, though I should has claim on this ground, it is Connecticut and Massachu- feel it my duty to scrutinize the same, when that commitsetts least of all. By the ratio of 1810, Connecticut had tee is composed of high-minded, honorable, and intellian unrepresented fraction of sixteen thousand, and Massa- gent gentlemen, from different sections of this country, chusetts one of six thousand only; by the ratio of 1820, and who, I believe, act with a single eye to the public Connecticut had a fraction of thirty-five thousand, and good, and who possess full means of obtaining informa lost a member, as did Vermont, but Massachusetts of only tion on the subject entrusted to them. I would not for three thousand; and yet Massachusetts voted, as she had a slight reasons vary from that report. And I cannot but right to do, in phalanx, to favor her own representation. think that the number which they have reported as the Connecticut, too, was comparatively a small State, and ratio of representation, will do more equal justice than any she could not well afford to lose one-seventh of her repre- other. sentation, but she did; and now, with forty-four, as it is It was correctly remarked the other day by a gentleman wished by Massachusetts, Connecticut will have a fraction from Virginia, [Mr. CRAIG,] that we could not expect to of over thirty-three thousand. Forty-nine would be more arrive at a conclusion without a spirit of conciliation and acceptable to me, individually, than any other number, as mutual concession. I concur with him in his opinion. Unmost favoring Connecticut, but I will be satisfied with for- der the bill as reported, it is true many of the States, over ty-six, which will save Massachusetts and Virginia. I do and above their contemplated number of representatives, not speak of the past with any feeling of unkindness to- would be left with large fractions, and four, to wit, Verwards Massachusetts; but if taking away a member was not mont, Kentucky, Georgia, and New York, with over forty unjust or improper in 1820, it is not now. Sir, I am in thousand each; but were we to adopt any other basis, the favor of a full representation in this House; I wish ever to fractions of these States might be diminished by the opebe able to hear the people; but then they may be less ration; others would be placed in the same situation; heard and attended to by an overgrown representation, what would be the gain of some, would be the loss of than by one of a proper size. I believe the interests of others. It is true, by diminishing the votes proposed, the this country have been fully represented in this House, and fractional parts might be lessened; but, as in the bill reportthat twenty-eight new members is quite equal to the in- ed, these remnants would be relative, and the hardship, in creased population. It is impossible for us to act, in all this respect, not less than now. It becomes our duty to time, upon the principle of preserving to each State its disregard particular hardships, if not too flagrant, and look present representation. Such is the rule of the constitu- totally to the general welfare of this Union. Until the re

JAN. 18, 1832.]

Apportionment Bill.

[H. OF R.

port of the committee was presented, and the tables of too increased numbers. It was remarked the other day, calculation laid before us, as a representation from the by the gentleman from Rhode Island, [Mr. BURGES,] that State of New York, now represented by thirty-four mem- the House of Representatives ought, as near as might be, bers on this floor-under the bill we have thirty-nine, and, to be increased in a ratio with our population; but I canshould the amendment prevail, to have no less than forty- not subscribe to that opinion. It never was done when three members-I was disposed to favor such a ratio, as our representation was much more limited than now; nor it, at least, would not increase our numbers here from that cannot hereafter be done, when our population is so State, and perhaps as great a one as fifty-five or sixty numerous. In 1790, after our first census, with a popu thousand. Perhaps my impressions were too hastily receiv-lation of less than four millions, the number of our repreed, and one consideration, with me, of greater weight sentatives was one hundred and five, and at that rate, with than any other, has induced me to change those impres- a population of more than twelve millions, we should sions. If we should extend beyond forty-eight thousand, have at least four hundred members, a number by far too one independent State in this Union would be deprived of great for convenient legislation. The gentleman from half of her representation here; and if the ratio should not Massachusetts [Mr. DEARBORN] observed the other day, be carried above forty-nine thousand, and one forty-eight that should the amendment be adopted, and the House thousand, she would be left with a fraction sufficiently actually become too numerous after a new census, this large, wanting a few hundred, to entitle her to another might be regulated, and the evil removed. This never representative. I think that the feelings of the citizens of would or could be done by diminishing the number which that respectable State ought to be regarded, and her inte- then might comprise the House. If that gentleman should rests consulted. Justly might she complain of unfairness hold a seat here, after the period referred to, and the evil and illiberality, should this result be produced. I trust which I apprehend should result, I hardly think he would I entertain no feelings for Rhode Island different from be induced to vote to diminish the number which then those which I might possess for any other State which might be here, nor would his State sustain him in so doing. might be placed in the same situation. The case of Dela- The number comprising the popular branch of the Goware has been mentioned as a precedent for a similar vernment never will be diminished. If it must increase, hardship. Under the former census, she was deprived of let it be gradually, and to a limited extent. Now is a faone-half of her representation on this floor. Her case was vorable crisis to establish a precedent, to be followed by truly a hard one, and yet the fraction was far less than our future legislators; and as our population hereafter what would remain to Rhode Island at a ratio of forty-nine may increase, a larger ratio, proportioned to such increase, thousand. The example heretofore set ought not to sanc- should be adopted, and so judiciously as not materally to tion injustice now. enlarge our number here.

I am not unconscious of the sensibility felt by the mem- The gentleman from Massachusetts, [Mr. DEARBORN,] bers from New Hampshire and Massachusetts, two of the to illustrate the truth of his arguments in favor of the four States, each of which, by the proposed bill, would amendment, referred to the great number of which the be deprived of one of her present number of representa- British House of Commons is constituted. I know that tives. They are to be commended for this sensibility. body consists of more than six hundred members, but, They entertain a high and correct sense of the honor and except upon the eve of some great and important national dignity of these States. This is as it should be. I have question, not one-half of its members are in their places. listened with great pleasure to the reasons which they Sir, the genius of the British constitution differs much have urged in favor of the amendment, but I am yet un- from ours. Thank God, we have no rotten borough sysconvinced by these arguments. By conceding to these tem. A large proportion of her members are not, like States their present number of representatives, and to ours, the free and voluntary choice of an enlightened namake the same equal to others, forty-six additional mem- tion of freemen, owing to their constituents high accountbers might be added to this body. Now, by this addition, ability, and most of whom are expected to express the would the relative weight or influence of numbers, from sentiments and advocate the interests of their constituents these States, in this branch of our national councils, be on this floor. The pride and interests of our constituents augmented? Massachusetts, at present, is entitled to thir- oblige us to mingle much in the debates of our body. teen members; under the proposed apportionment, she There, but few discuss questions. Observe, sir, in readwould have but twelve. Look at the map of that State; ing the reports on the recent debates in the British House see her limited geographical extent; view her dense po- of Commons on that lately all-absorbing question, the repulation; and, do you not believe that twelve members form bill, how few individuals took a conspicuous part in could well, ably, and to the honor of the State, represent debate. But we have other duties to perform besides her here? That they might become intimately acquainted talking. The business of the nation is entrusted to us; with the habits, manners, feelings, and interests of their it is important and multifarious, and it is the more incumconstituents, and be entirely competent to transact the local business which might accrue in their several districts? I have not understood the reverse of this to be denied; if so, I for one should be disposed to yield much for the interests of that respectable State, as well as for others which might be placed in the same predicament.

bent upon us to act with vigor and despatch, than to talk. What Mr. Jefferson most appropriately terms "the morbid rage of debate," seizes the members of this House. We talk against time and reason, to the injury of our constituents particularly, and the nation in general. A practical illustration of the truth of this assertion transpired In the course of this discussion, reference has been had here a few days since. A number of respectable indivito the additional expense incident to an increased repre- duals (I mean the president and directors of the Bank of sentation; but more important considerations than such the United States) sent a petition to this House, and the operate upon my mind. Nor can I believe that two hun- question was one merely of reference; that is, whether dred and thirty-seven representatives, biennially elected, the paper should be referred to a select committee to be and sent here from the people, would be obnoxious to bri- raised for the purpose of considering that alone, or to a bery, or any other species of corruption. I have too standing committee of this House, to whom the same subhigh an opinion of the integrity and character of the ject-matter had previously been referred. And on this American people to deem it necessary to increase our question nearly twenty gentlemen made speeches, and yet number here to guard against such an improbable evil. a greater number would have done the same, except for While it is of primary importance that the different parts of the Union should be fairly and competently represented in our popular branch, we ought vigilantly to guard against

the enforcement of that salutary and most necessary rule permitting the previous question to be interposed, which, fortunately for the interests of the nation, put a stop to so

H. OF R.]

Apportionment Bill.

The principle was plain-the lower the ratio, the premature and unnecessary a discussion. This is but one stated. of the many instances which I have witnessed here of a less amount of fractions. That any fraction should exist, disposition to talk, without any practical benefit to be ex- was to be regretted; he should vote in favor of the lower pected. Why are our tables loaded with petitions, resolu- number, because it would produce greater equality of retions, and bills? One great cause is, we expend too much presentation throughout the country. It was said that the time in useless debate. Many subjects are now before us, smaller number could better transact business. How is it which have been submitted for many previous sessions with the present House? Do we not do business? Do We have no right to inwithout being brought to a final decision. Every alternate not the people rather require an increase than restriction session of Congress continues almost six months; and we of the numbers of the House? then adjourn without completing one-half of the business quire what is most agreeable or convenient to ourselves before us. As we now legislate, the whole year would personally. The question is, what do the people require? be an insufficient time to enable us to do what we ought Gentlemen talk of the expense of an increase of the to do. I think I can trace this delay in business to a com- House. Sir, when the people cannot afford to maintain a I have been informed that early legis- House of Representatives of the proper size, let them say He should vote for the largest number that could petent cause. lation in this House did not take the same course; that, so. when our numbers were comparatively small, the sessions conveniently do business together. were short, and all the business of the nation was promptly done.

Mr. Chairman, look at the other branch of Congress. Their number is small; they have not the power to interrupt the freedom of debate by interposing the previous question, and they have other important and onerous official duties to discharge besides those of legislation; but I mean with the excepthey are always in advance of us. tion of the last session, when a great portion of their time was taken up in sitting as a court to try an impeachEntertaining these views, I cannot be convinced but that too great an increase of the numbers who constitute this House, will retard legislation, and, therefore, I shall vote against the amendment, and support the bill as originally reported.

ment.

Mr. THOMAS went into a general defence of the principles adopted by the committee in forming the report, and vindicated them from any imputation of referring to the situation of their respective States, in establishing the ratio reported by them.

Mr. BURD said it is an important subject; one of great concern to the several States, and especially to the Union. This Government is to be kept in wholesome action by proper checks and balances; the States preserving their independent character, and the citizens of all the States represented in the great assembly of the nation. This, emphatically, is the republican branch of the Government. To this Congress of the nation representatives are elected biennially; coming immediately from the people, and returning to them, and to them to give an account of their Sir, during the time I have been a member of the doings. The other branch is one supposed to be of a House, have not often trespassed on the time of the grave cast, and a more deliberative body, and more removIt is, he said, of consequence committee or House by my remarks, and even now I have ed from the people; and, by its organization, exercising a done it unwillingly. I had hoped that some member from high controlling power. If there be danger from any, certhe State, a portion of which I have the honor to repre- that the different branches of the Government be kept in sent, of more practical experience in legislation than my-wholesome action. self, would have expressed his views, and what I believe, tainly that from the popular branch is least to be dreaded. in a considerable degree, are the feelings of our State. It has proved but nothing more than flows from its own It has no patronage--no offices to bestow, or Then how can a moderate increase The remarks which I have made are imperfect, the sug-action. gestions of the moment; and if I have been so fortunate comparatively none. as to convey my ideas intelligibly to the committee, I shall of this body be dangerous? It may be somewhat inconvenient, and may be unwieldy, but cannot be dangerous. be satisfied. We have now tried our form of GoI am not of opinion, said Mr. B., that the people are their own worst enemies. vernment for fifty years, and have no reason to doubt the permanency of it. Knowledge is power; enlighten the public mind, and good fruits will follow. Then what is the state of this Union? Have the old thirteen been less paAre they triotic, less talented, less virtuous, or less brave, than the new States? I answer, no; emphatically, no. The institutions of these States will bear a less so now? that is the question. To that, for one, I respond, no. comparison with any in the world. In most of these States man is taken in infancy, and carefully educated. This education is general, and improves man in his moral We live in a Government of laws and physical nature. and will an enlightened man be more likely to break them than one not so? I say not. These observations are made, not to take from the new States the merit which they have their lands are fertile, their climate generally good, their mineral productions of great amount, and their waters calculated to take their produce from their doors. They have, in the spirit of the age, advanced in manufactures, internal improvements, and the arts; their population, virtuous, talented, brave, and enterprising. Their popu lation, from these causes, have, of course, vastly increas ed, and may it continue to increase; and, as these States become more densely populated, may they have, as they will have, an increased representation in this House. The institutions of Pennsylvania, and her natural advantages, show that she will lose nothing. Our citizens go to the far West, but others come from abroad. The nurture of

Mr. CLAY, of Alabama, said he should not go into the discussion of the general question. That had been so fully debated in all its views, as to render it unnecessary for He had heard him to take up the time of the committee. the statement of the various principles with interest, particularly the avowal of democratical principles, pro hac vice, by the gentleman from Maryland. He was opposed to any increase of the present number of representatives on this floor. If any favor should be extended to States, it should certainly be to the new States, because they are constantly increasing. At the ratio of forty-four thousand the fractions of Alabama and Mississippi will be forty-two thousand. Will this be just? In less than three months after taking the census, their increase would more than make up this deficiency. If favor is to be shown to any, by arranging small fractions to them, it should surely be to those States whose increase is the most rapid. As to the proper size of this House, he would inquire whether gentleman had found, in the facility of transacting business with its present number, two hundred and thirteen, an argument in favor of its further increase?

Mr. REED, of Massachusetts, said the gentleman from Alabama had contended that if any favor was to be shown, it should be to the most flourishing States.

Mr. CLAY explained by saying he did not intimate that the prosperity of the States should have any thing to do with representation; but that the smallest fractions should be arranged, if possible, to those States which increased the fastest.

Mr. REED said it was the same in substance as he had

JAN. 19, 1832.]

Domestic Manufactures.

[H. OF R.

men is easy, and employment in abundance of course, and believed, pretty well ascertained that the matters involv population increasing. I would be content with our pre-ed in the general subject of the tariff had been referred sent representation; but can this be the case? We say we partly to the Committee of Ways and Means, and partly are progressing, and our numbers increasing rapidly. to the Committee on Manufactures. There was not the Our roads and canals, and the liberality of our institutions, smallest disposition on the part of the committee to which invite the foreigner to settle amongst us. This is the case he belonged to interfere in the slightest degree with the with the Western States; but how is it East? An exten- department of the Committee of Ways and Means. What sive seaboard; their citizens engaged in trade in every the House would do with the resolution, which, though country and every clime; the dangers of a seafaring life, coming from the Committee of Ways and Means, related and the constant emigation West, carry off their inhabit-almost entirely and exclusively to the subject of manufacants. It is true many of them came here from the West-tures, it was for the House to determine.

ern States; but then they are Western men, and no longer Mr. McDUFFIE now expressed a determination to respecially represent their ancient friends. Shall we then new his motion, but covet the rights of the Eastern States, and of the old and patriotic State of Virginia? I hope not. Let us be content with our advantages, and not wish to take from our neighbors.

Mr. BRIGGS, of Massachusetts, next obtained the floor; but it being now past four o'clock, after a few prefatory words, he moved that the committee rise.

It rose accordingly, and reported progress, when the House immediately adjourned.

THURSDAY, JANUARY 19.

DOMESTIC MANUFACTURES.

Mr. ADAMS, from the Committee on Manufactures, reported the following resolution:

Mr. CAMBRELENG suggested to him that it would be a better course to move for the consideration of the other resolution.

To this Mr. McDUFFIE objected, since, as both reso. lutions referred almost precisely to the same thing, it would be an anomaly to pass them both.

Mr. TAYLOR now called for the reading of both resolutions, and they were accordingly read as follows: [Resolution reported by the Committee on Manufactures.] Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury be directed to obtain information as to the quantities and kinds of the several articles manufactured in the United States during the year, particularly those of iron, cotton, wool, hemp, and sugar, and the cost thereof; and also the quanResolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury be direct-tities and cost of similar articles imported from abroad ed to obtain information as to the quantities and kinds of during the same year; and that he lay the same before the several articles manufactured in the United States this House as early as may be practicable during the preduring the year, particularly those of iron, cotton, wool, sent session of Congress, together with such information hemp, and sugar, and the cost thereof; and also the quan- as he may deem material, and such suggestions as he may tities and cost of similar articles imported from abroad du- think useful, with a view to the adjustment of the tariff, ring the same year; and that he lay the same before this after the payment of the public debt. House as early as may be practicable during the present [Resolution reported by the Committee of Ways and Means.] session of Congress, together with such information as he may deem material, and such suggestions as he may think useful, with a view to the adjustment of the tariff, after the payment of the public debt.

Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury be requested to collect such facts and information as may be in his power, of the extent and condition, generally, of Mr. ADAMS stated that he had been instructed by the the manufactures of wool, cotton, hemp, iron, sugar, committee to ask of the House that the rule which re-salt, and such other articles as are manufactured to a conquires that calls on the department should lie for one day on the table, should in this case be suspended, in order that the resolution might be acted upon without delay. The question being put, the House agreed to suspend the rule, and to consider the resolution at this time.

Mr. McDUFFIE said that he should like to know from the Chair whether the consideration of this resolution would take precedence of that which had been offered by the Committee of Ways and Means some days since upon the same subject.

The CHAIR replying in the affirmative,

Mr. MCDUFFIE then said that he should move to lay the resolution on the table. The resolution reported by the Committee of Ways and Means had been prepared by the Secretary of the Treasury himself. He thereupon made his motion, but withdrew it at the request of

siderable extent in the United States; and report the same to this House as early as may be practicable during the present session, for the use of Congress; and that he be also requested, in transmitting the aforesaid information, to accompany it with such a tariff of duties upon imports, as in his opinion may be best adapted to the advancement of the public interest.

Mr. ADAMS now requested that if both resolutions were to be considered, the House would take up that which he had reported by itself.

Mr. DAVIS inquired of the Chair whether the two resolutions were not identical. The only difference he could perceive between them was, that the one proposed that the Secretary should be requested, and the other that he should be directed, to furnish the requisite information, in which respect he believed the report of the gentleman of Massachusetts had the advantage in point of correctness.

Mr. ADAMS, who said that the reason why the Committee on Manufactures desired to have this resolution acted upon immediately, was, that they could not per- The CHAIR, after considering the two resolutions, deform the duty which had been assigned them without the cided that they were not identical; the one being specific, information therein called for. The chairman of the Com- and the other general in its character. mittee of Ways and Means had stated that the resolution Mr. L. CONDICT now said that the Committee on offered in the name of that committee had been concert- Manufactures found themselves unable to act on the subed between himself and the Secretary of the Treasury. ject which had been referred to them without the inforMr. A. also could state that the resolution now offered by mation called for by the resolution. It was true that the the Committee on Manufactures was in consequence of a resolution from the Committee of Ways and Means did communication which he, as the chairman of that commit- embrace within its requirements the information sought tee, had had with the same public officer. It was not for by that now before the House; but it was so framed as him to decide whether the House should adopt both re- to take the whole subject out of the hands of the Comsolutions, and whether, if they did, the two resolutions mittee on Manufactures entirely. The committee found should be sent to two different committees. It was, he an interminable debate interposed between them and

VOL. VIII.-100

H. OF R.]

Patents.--Bank of Erie.

[JAN. 19, 1832.

the information sought by the previous resolution; and formation precisely in the form that he wished it; but

until that debate should come to an end, the facts could when calls came from their side of the House, a different not by that resolution be obtained. This had led the Com- doctrine seemed to prevail. However, with the undermittee on Manufactures to direct that the present resolu- standing that the resolution of the gentleman from South tion be offered. Carolina should next be taken up, he would withdraw Mr. C. proposed to amend the resolution by striking his amendment, and he withdrew it accordingly. The therefrom the words "after the payment of the public question was thereupon put, and the resolution was debt." The resolution, as it now stood, went in effect to propose that the Secretary should report a tariff graduated on the assumption that the national debt had been paid; but it was probable Congress might determine to repeal or modify some of the items of the existing tariff before the public debt should have been paid.

The question being put, the amendment was carried; and, on the suggestion of Mr. CONDICT, the blank in the resolution after the word "year" was filled by inserting the words "ending the 30th September, 1831."

adopted.

It was then immediately put on Mr. McDUFFIE's resolution; which was also agreed to.

PATENTS.

Mr. TAYLOR, from the Committee on the subject of the employment of additional clerks in the Patent Office, the Patent Laws, reported a joint resolution authorizing to record the unrecorded patents for useful inventions. Mr. TAYLOR, of New York, explained the grounds of the resolution. thousand patents remained at this time unrecorded in the He stated the surprising fact that six Patent Office. He also stated that in some cases where suits had been instituted by patentees, and applications been deposited in the office, the original specifications consequently made for copies of specifications which had were nowhere to be found; and thus the inventors who

Mr. CARSON now moved to amend the resolution by striking out the words "reduction of the tariff," and inserting "the present duties in such a manner that the revenue, as derived from all sources, shall not exceed the actual necessities of Government." Mr. C. observed, in support of the amendment, that it must be obvious to all, that, after the payment of the public debt, no greater had complied with the law, and paid their fees for having amount of revenue would be requisite than that which was needed to defray the expenses of the Government. evidence necessary to sustain their rights in the courts of their inventions secured to them, were deprived of the How much that would be, he did not undertake precisely the United States. to say; but it was a fair subject of inquiry from the Trea- which it appeared that the balance of $103,000, derived Mr. T. presented a statement, from sury Department. Mr. McDUFFIE said that he should not press his mo- the expenses of the office, had been carried to the account from the payment of fees, and remaining over and above tion to lay the resolution on the table, in the understanding of clerk hire, but, owing to the provision of an act passed that, if it was adopted, that reported from the Committee in 1818, could not be applied to the object intended. of Ways and Means would be considered in its turn; and The committee preferred the measure now proposed to a if both were to be adopted, he should be disposed to per- permanent increase of the number of clerks in the Patent mit the gentleman from Massachusetts to have his resolu- Office. The arrears of labor to be done would occupy the tion passed in the form he had himself given it. time of fourteen or fifteen clerks for a whole year. hoped the amendment therefore would not be pressed. the emergency was somewhat pressing, the committee He wished it, however, to be distinctly understood, that, in had chosen the form of a joint resolution to encountering voting for the resolution, he did so, because it was the the delay of a bill. The resolution was thereupon ordered to a second reading to-morrow.

He

wish of the Committee on Manufactures that such a call should be made, although it was entirely unsatisfactory to himself.

Mr. HOFFMAN expressed his hope that the course suggested by the gentleman from South Carolina would be pursued, and that the House would not encumber the resolution with matter such as the committee who report ed it considered irrelevant. He believed, however, with due submission, that a part of the facts called for could not be got from the treasury. The organization of that department, and the sources from which this information was to be drawn, were such that it never could be come at, except by a call for persons and papers, in order that the facts might be verified by oath. He hoped that the whole truth would be elicited, and that the resolution would remain in such a form as the committee had chosen to give it. He had no regard as to what quarter an inquiry came from, or for what purpose it was made, provided the information sought were useful and important. He should vote against the amendment.

BANK OF ERIE.

As

The bill empowering the Secretary of the Treasury to compromise the claims of the United States on the Commercial Bank of Erie, came up as the unfinished business of yesterday morning, and the debate upon it was resumed by

Mr. CAMBRELENG, who, though unwilling to oppose the bill, did not wish the Secretary of the Treasury should have the responsibility of its introduction.

Mr. INGERSOLL thought it strange that the gentleman from New York, without finding fault with the merits of the bill, should object to it because a general power, extending to all similar cases, was not conferred by it upon the Secretary.

Mr. WHITTLESEY again went into a statement more detailed than that he had given yesterday, of the nature and origin of the debt owed by the bank to the United States, in which he corrected the misapprehension of the Mr. CARSON disclaimed any wish to embarrass the reporter that the bank was in his vicinity. [The bank is committee. He could not, however, forbear to remark, at Erie-the gentleman resides at Canfield. The places, that when gentlemen on one side of a great question though not close to each other, lie in the same region of moved a call, their design could be embarrassed-amend- country.] He strenuously vindicated the bank from all ments were brought forward, discussions gone into, and imputation of fraud, and imputed its failure entirely to long speeches made, all, as it would seem, from the fear the general pressure of the times when it had taken place. that the information sought might prove injurious to the He repeated the expression of his conviction, that, unless American system. He had not offered the amendment the compromise should speedily be effected, the debt from any want of respect for the committee. But he would prove a total loss. thought the time had arrived when the people ought to A desultory debate continued for some time between know the actual amount requisite to meet the wants of Messrs. HOFFMAN, CAMBRELENG, and McDUFFIE, Government; the sum beyond which their represent- on the propriety of investing the treasury with a general atives ought not to go in laying taxes upon them. But power, the danger of a precedent like this, when banks they were now told that every gentleman must have in-had dishonestly failed, and the true intent and meaning of