STATEMENT OF EDWARD G. HAMILTON, REPRESENTING THE AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION Senator DONAHEY. Give your name and who you represent to the committee reporter. Mr. HAMILTON. My name is Edward G. Hamilton. Senator MCCARRAN. State your name and what organization, if any, you represent, Mr. Hamitlon. Mr. HAMILTON. My name is Edward G. Hamilton, representing the Air Line Pilots Association, and Mr. David L. Behncke, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, is also here. Senator MCCARRAN. Mr. Hamilton, you sent a communication to my office this morning, and on one or two occasions in the past we have had some discussion as to one particular phase of this bill in which you were particularly interested. Mr. HAMILTON. That is right, sir. Senator MCCARRAN. I would like to have you draw that matter to the attention of the committee as to what question it is that you and your organization are interested in and what your views are on this subject. Mr. HAMILTON. I have prepared a statement here, which I should like to read, if it is in order. Senator MCCARRAN. If it is not too long. Mr. HAMILTON. There are just two pages. [Reading:] The Air Line Pilots Association is an organization comprising approximately 90 percent of all pilots and copilots engaged in air transportation, and is affiliated with the American Federation of Labor. We have always been in favor of the regulation of our industry by the Interstate Commerce Commission, and, therefore, have no fault to find with the general purpose of this bill. However, there is a provision in the present Air Mail Act which has been omitted and which we think should be included. refer to section 13. We Section 13 of the Air Mail Act provides protection in the matters of pay and working conditions for all employees in air transportation, and has proved very helpful in maintaining peace and stability in employer-employee relations during the past year. The intent of this section was to maintain the standards of pay and working conditions which were in effect prior to the cancelation of the airmail contracts, and it has accomplished that result. The need for the continuance of this provision was demonstrated recently when one air line attempted to reduce pilots' pay 40 percent as soon as the requirement of the law terminated. Accordingly, the new air mail bill, H. R. 6511, which is now pending before Congress, amends this section so as to continue its provisions in effect indefinitely. This amended section was contained in both the House and the Senate versions of the bill as it passed, and has been retained in the conference report. Therefore, we feel that we are not making an unreasonable request in asking you to consider the following amendment to S. 3027: 'Amend subsection (j) of section 405 by inserting on page 15 after line 2, a new paragraph (5) as follows: 66 6 (5) That the rate of compensation and the working conditions and relations for all pilots and other employees of the holder of such certificate shall conform to decisions made by the National Labor Board, notwithstanding any limitation as to the period of its effectiveness included in any such decision heretofore rendered. This condition shall not be construed as restricting the right of any such employees by collective bargaining to obtain higher rates of compensation or more favorable working conditions and relations."" Regarding the rest of the bill, we have not attempted to make an exhaustive study of it, but leave that to those who are better qualified. We do, however, wish to make two suggestions. First. It is our impression that the bill seems to be a little vague as to the authority to be exercised by the Commission with respect to safety regulations. This function, at present, is administered by the Bureau of Aeronautics of the Department of Commerce by authority of the Air Commerce Act of 1926, as amended June 19, 1934. We believe that this important regulation should be turned over to the Interstate Commerce Commission, and, if such is the intention, it should be stated more clearly. For example, on page 6, line 7, insert after the comma the words "safe methods of operation.' Second. Section 416 authorizes the Commission to establish a Bureau of Air Transport and permits it to employ such experts, etc., as may be needed. We believe this section should go further and require that the inspectors, technicians, etc., at present in the service of the Department of Commerce, but who may be released because of this act, be transferred to the Interstate Commerce Commission. If this is not done much valuable experience will be lost. That is the extent of our statement. any questions, if you have any. We would be glad to answer Senator MCCARRAN. Mr. Hamilton, referring to your first proposed amendment, is it not now covered by S. 2496? Mr. HAMILTON. No; it is not. S. 2496 provides the machinery for settling disputes and what the other section, 13, in the present Air Mail Act provides is practically a prevailing and minimum scale of pay. That is what it amounts to. Senator MCCARRAN. Do you think that the amendment which you propose is essential by reason of other legislation existing? Mr. HAMILTON. We do. We think it fills a gap and completes the protection which we believe we should have and should like to have. Senator MCCARRAN. Will you leave a copy of that proposed amendment with the committee so they may have it? Mr. HAMILTON. It is in the statement. Senator MCCARRAN. Now, one other matter, dealing with the question of the removal of all control of air transportation from the Department of Commerce: It is not the intention of the author of this bill that there should be removed from the Department of Commerce the present facilities. This control has been operated, I think, successfully and very efficiently by the Department of Commerce. This bill would not affect the Department of Commerce in its present operation. We would merely recommend the placing over in the hands of the I. C. C. certain further powers, as for instance, of safety devices that the I. C. C. might see fit to recommend or install or cause to be installed. It is not the intention of the author of this bill, then, to transfer or to interfere with the present facilities and the present operation under the Department of Commerce. With that in mind, do you care to comment? Mr. HAMILTON. We still believe that regulations such as safety regulations should be removed from the Executive branch of the Government and placed under the Commission so that it can be treated and regulated in the same manner that the rates and so on are adjusted. I understand that safety is one of the functions of the Interstate Commerce Commission in connection with the railroads, and safety is of vital concern to the public and to the employees, especially those who are in the air, and to the company, and we believe that those important matters, which incidentally are covered in and recognized by the certificate authorizing an air line to operate, should be handled in a judicial or quasi-judicial manner. Senator MCCARRAN. Well, if under subdivisions 3 and 4, on page 6, your very idea is sought to be carried out, would that not meet the views that you have? Mr. HAMILTON. I see, where it says, "to approve or disapprove"? Well, now, in paragraph 4 it says, "to approve or disapprove, in whole or in part, any and all rules or regulations of any other department"it does not seem to me to be very clear as to how they are going to do that. Now, up here in paragraph 3 it says they are going to promote the development of safe and efficient air transportation by prescribing and revising, at least annually, the minimum standards respecting the types of equipment to be used, and the quality of service. But they do not prescribe the safe methods of operation, and it would seem to me that is where these regulations should be prescribed. Senator MCCARRAN. It is rather the idea of the author that this, in place of taking anything from the Department of Commerce, augments and adds to the safety of the industry by placing another agency, working coordinately with the Department of Commerce in some respects. Mr. HAMILTON. Yes. Senator MCCARRAN. As, for instance, the Department of Commerce, might issue a permit, an air-worthiness certificate, so-called. Mr. HAMILTON. Yes. Senator MCCARRAN. While this Commission, the Interstate Commerce Commission, might go further in its determination as to airworthiness. Senator TRUMAN. Senator, do you not think the responsibility ought to be in one place? Senator MCCARRAN. I beg your pardon? Senator TRUMAN. Do you not think the responsibility ought to be in one place? I have been told only God can secure cooperation between two departments. I think that is true. Senator MCCARRAN. I do not dispute that. Senator DONAHEY. There is a saving clause here that the President may authorize the establishment, modification, or annulment of such rule or regulation. Senator MCCARRAN. Now, to Senator Truman's suggestion, let me draw the Senator's attention to subdivision 4 on page 6, which prescribes that the Commission may approve or disapprove, in whole or in part, any and all rules and regulations of any other department of the Government which affects the Commission's powers and duties under this part. Senator TRUMAN. Why not let the Commission make the rules, then? Senator MCCARRAN. That is the idea of section 3 just above. But the dealing with and using of those rules and regulations has been effectively and, I think efficiently carried out by the Commerce Department and they have a very comprehensive machinery. Senator TRUMAN. There is no doubt about that. Mr. HAMILTON. May I add another word. The way we see this set-up is this: The Department of Commerce, as you say, is doing a very good job in the regulation of air lines at the present time, but the fact remains it is an entirely different kind of a job than was done before the change of administration. Now, the same thing is going to happen again when the administration changes. They will have an entirely new group, new ideas, and there never will be stability so far as safety is concerned-——— Senator MCCARRAN. Except as Mr. HAMILTON. Just one more thought; pardon me. Mr. HAMILTON. The Secretary of Commerce, under the Air Commerce Act, expressly has the supreme power to change the regulations by whim. He can overnight, if he sees fit, strike out a regulation, and that condition, it seems to me, opens itself, or leaves itself wide open to vicious lobbying. Senator DONAHEY. And confusion. Mr. HAMILTON. And confusion. Senator MCCARRAN. Those are all the comments you see fit to make? Mr. HAMILTON. I think that covers our views, Senator. Mr. HAMILTON. Thank you. (Thereupon, the witness left the committee table.) Senator MCCARRAN. I am going to call Capt. Edward Rickenbacker. STATEMENT OF EDWARD V. RICKENBACKER, GENERAL MANAGER, EASTERN AIR LINES, VICE PRESIDENT, NORTH AMERICAN AVIATION Senator MCCARRAN. Please state your name and what, if any, organization you represent. Captain RICKENBACKER. Edward V. Rickenbacker. Senator MCCARRAN. What is your business or profession? Captain RICKENBACKER. I am general manager of the Eastern Air Lines, vice president of North American Aviation, of which Eastern Air Lines is a division. Senator MCCARRAN. Captain Rickenbacker, you are familiar with the bill now before the committee. I might ask you to comment, if you will, and give the committee the benefit of your experience and observation with reference to this bill. Captain RICKENBACKER. Senator, I have not had the opportunity to study the bill in detail, to the extent that I would like to, but I cannot help but feel that in principle the bill is very sound. There has been a very definite effort made toward a constructive program which, as I understand it, has been the wish of the President in the statements he has made. There are a few objections that might be raised from what I have seen of it. And I think probably after they have been analyzed that the author would have no objection to amending it in accordance with the benefits to the majority. One particular item that I refer to is found on page 14, section 3, lines 13 to 22, where there is included a provision which should definitely be eliminated from the act. The fact that this section prevents any air carrier or airport operator from engaging in the "manufacture or sale of aircraft or engines or parts thereof, or other materials or accessories" would not only prevent a scheduled air transport operator from maintaining a valuable public service to all aviation by carrying a stock of parts and accessories, but would also eliminate 95 percent of the existing distributors and dealers of commercial aircraft manufacturing companies. Hundreds of small oper ators in every State in the Union either operate airports or offer charter service in connection with their aircraft sales agencies. In other words, I think that the same desired end could be accomplished without destroying the opportunity of these hundreds of small dealers and distributors to render this service. And I am sure that the author, after analyzing it thoroughly, would have no objection to amending the bill so as not to interfere with the activities of these organizations. As an illustration, under the act as now written, we as an air-line operator would not be permitted to set up or have, as we call it, a "used-car department" for the sale of obsolete equipment. We must have that because of the constant progress of the business. We must also be in a position to be able to buy parts to keep that equipment in shape or to prepare it for sale. I specifically think in terms of the United Aircraft Air Transport at Cheyenne. They operate equipment that uses practically all Pratt-Whitney motive power. They have a distributing agency for that particular community. They can afford to render an exceptionally high standard of service, due to the fact that they have the inventory and must have it through natural necessity to take care of their own business and thereby render the aviation industry as a whole a service that the little 2 by 4 dealer would not be able to render, due to lack of demand, et cetera. Senator MCCARRAN. Captain Rickenbacker, I do not like to interrupt, but would your own organization or you, yourself, mind preparing an amendment to submit to the committee that they might consider it, carrying out the views you have? Captain RICKENBACKER. Yes, sir. Senator MCCARRAN. And in that respect I want to say, and I want to say this to the committee, that the author of this bill welcomes amendments that will carry out the spirit of the bill, looking to the progress of the science and the progress of the industry. We are not at all wedded to any language here. We are simply looking forward in the endeavor to promote the best interests of the industry. Senator DONAHEY. And which are not prejudicial to the public welfare. Senator MCCARRAN. That is it. Captain RICKENBACKER. I assumed that. And as you read that particular part of the act, you can readily see that it would be very helpful to a lot of small dealers and distributors. As an illustration, the average distributor and agent for commercial aircraft has to do so many things that involve the ownership or the leasing of an airport, he may be chartering planes, and he may be selling gasoline, he may be selling plane parts, and he has to do that in order to make both ends meet, because the market is not sufficient for him to have the earning power necessary by the simple selling of new aircraft alone to take care of his expenses. I am sure that no one would object to that. Senator DONAHEY. You will draw the amendments and present them to the committee as soon as possible? Captain RICKENBACKER. Sir? Senator DONAHEY. You will draw the amendments and present them to the committee as soon as possible? - Captain RICKENBACKER. We will be very glad to do it. |