I have made a sort of classification of the answers received, and the result is as follows:

IO CARS OR LESS.

Received answers from 16 roads: 14 of these buy all supplies and repair parts, and have not a machine of any kind; the other two have a drill press, small lathe and blacksmithing outfit.

10 TO 20 CARS.

Received answers from 13 roads: seven of these have partially equipped machine shops, do all ordinary repairs, and manufacture many parts for renewals; the other six have not a machine of any kind.

20 TO 30 CARS.

Received answers from 10 roads: six of these have well-equipped machineshops, do all repairs, and manufacture most parts for renewals; the other four have not a machine of any kind.

30 TO 50 CARS.

Received answers from six roads: of these one has not a machine of any kind; one has only a wheel press; two have a drill press, lathe and blacksmithing outfit; the other two have fully equipped shops and do all repairs and make nearly all supply parts.

50 OR MORE CARS.

Received answers from 12; two of these have only a drill press, lathe and blacksmithing outfit; nine have complete shops equipped with machines of all kinds and manufacture about everything necessary to maintain the equipment; one has a very extensive manufacturing establishment, outside of a complete repair shop, and also maintains a brass foundry.

The remaining roads from which I received answers had no definite information to give. One or two said that they were getting ready to establish shops, and others were undecided what they would do.

Out of the 66 roads heard from, 36 were winding their own motor armatures and field coils, and the cost of armatures varied from $17 the lowest, to $75 the highest; the average was about $35, including all labor and material.

Fifteen roads had wood-working machinery, consisting principally of sawtable, band-saw, surface-planer, and mortising machine.

Seven roads are cutting their gears, but some of them find it no cheaper than to buy. They think, however, that the work and material are better, and for that reason it pays them. Others make all gears and think there is a saving in

cost.

Eight roads are building their cars, while several are rebuilding old cars, but make no new ones.

I will give now a few of the prices for which supply parts are being made in the shops of the different roads. These figures are an average taken from II roads which are using Sprague, T-H., and Westinghouse, double reduction

motors.

Refilling commutator (copper bars)...

Two halves armature bearing, T. & H., $3.96, single Sprague.

Two halves axle bearing

Brush holder...

Rocker arm, T. & H., $1.00, Sprague...

$18 50

1 85

350

I 35

Int. pinion (steel).

Int. shaft (steel), T. & H., $10.00, Sprague..

3 00

3.00

4 20

3 88 5 66

358

I 06

The average price for which roads sell scrap car wheels is $13.65 per gross ton; the lowest being $8, and the highest $20.

Some roads have kept no account of cost of making repair parts, and therefore could give no prices. It is unnecessary to say that it would be wise to do so. Being anxious to know, myself, and thinking it might be of benefit to many others, I asked the roads to give an opinion as to which of the different types of motors gave them the most trouble. With but two exceptions, the single reduction costs less to maintain.

Nineteen roads are employing an Electrical Engineer, and four have a Superintendent and Electrical Engineer combined.

In regard to my own experience, I will say simply that it fully coincides with the information just presented to you. I have no doubt, whatever, that there is economy in maintaining repair shops, and even manufacturing supply parts. Of course what will apply to some roads will not to others. Some roads are too small to think of its being profitable, but many others will find it to their advantage if they will look at the matter in all its parts.

I will not attempt to recommend the number and kind of machines a road ought to have, as it will depend largely on the number of cars they operate, but I have made up a list of machines which I find the majority of those having machine-shops are using, and should judge that it covers those most necessary

for the work.

One set of Emery Grinders.

One Grindstone.

Necessary bench tools and fittings for machines.

One 10 H. P. Motor to run machinery.

Of course roads with a great number of cars would need to duplicate some of these machines, and add some others not mentioned.

After having considered this subject and shown you what conclusions have been arrived at, both theoretically and practically, I want to add, that in order to make a success of running a machine shop in connection with an electric road, it will be necessary to employ an Electrical Engineer. By this I do not mean a handy-man, or a man who styles himself an electrician, just because he has had a few months' experience in the electrical business, but one who has a theoretical, as well as a practical, knowledge of mechanical and electrical engineering.

In conclusion, I wish to say that I have endeavored to be as impartial as possible in what I have said, and have tried to present the subject in a comprehensive manner. I hope that discussion will follow the reading of this paper, for although some of us are fully persuaded that machine shops are economical, yet, I think, none of us are so prejudiced that we could not be convinced, should it be proven to the contrary. Let us get at the truth, whatever it is! Very respectfully submitted,

JOHN H. BICKFORD,

Committee.

DISCUSSION ENSUING.

The Vice-President: If there is no objection, the report will be received and spread upon the minutes. There being no objection, it is so ordered. The report is now open for discussion.

REMARKS OF MR. HENRY C. PAYNE.

Mr. Henry C. Payne: I do not think this report should go upon the records without discussion. I think every street-railway man recognizes the fact that in his machine shop lies the secret of the successful operation of the road, so far as producing results to the stockholders goes; and for one I would like very much to have the matter discussed by gentlemen who have had experience. There are a good many points that we are very undecided about; and I have no doubt that the question whether all the repairs and the manufacture of parts ought to be under the control of a master mechanic, either with or without electrical knowledge, would give rise to a very interesting discussion. know there is a difference of opinion among gentlemen that I have talked with, and I think it is a matter that could be dis

cussed with profit to the individual members of the Association. There is no doubt that favorable financial results in the operation of a road come very largely from economy in the machine shop. That is the experience, I think, of all electrical railroads. That is where the money is often wasted. That is where we can learn more than in any other branch of the business.

Mr. Richardson Will you not please start the discussion.

Mr. Payne: I do not feel competent to do it. I do not like to talk on matters I do not know about. I think, however, that any one who has watched the matter will bear me out, that in the machine shop, in the repairs to motors and cars, there is room for a great waste of money.

Mr. Richardson; I think it is evident that the writer of this report is a man of wide experience. I infer it from this, where he says from personal experience he can say that there is much material on the market to-day that is not up to the standard. Why? Simply because the makers of it do not understand thoroughly the requirements of the business.

REMARKS OF MR. FREDERICK S. WARDWELL.

Mr. Frederick S. Wardwell: I was in Mr. Payne's city a day or so ago, and I think that the question of repair shops might well be discussed. The repair shop, if it is not well provided for, will be the largest institution there is about your premises. I have noticed in a number of cities that motors are running without curtains, gear boxes are off, and pinions exposed to the dust. In cities where they have a sharp sand, I will warrant the gears will last only about one-half as long as in the central cities where they have a soft soil. If you do not take care of the motors, you can take your repair shop and make a fine organization of it. You will want a consulting and active engineer, and a master mechanic; you will also want three or four machinists at four dollars a day. You will need a brass foundry, iron foundry and a blacksmith shop, if the motors are not properly taken care of. I find that three motors are all one man wants to take care of, and I do not think this is an exception.

REMARKS OF MR. F. S. HOLMES.

Mr. F. S. Holmes: Some years ago I was manager of an electric light station having a capacity of 5,000 incandescent lamps

and 150 arcs. We had alternating current dynamos. At the commencement of my experience we had no repair shop. In case we burned out an armature, it went to the manufacturer, was repaired and returned. The cost of rewinding a 1,200-light armature and express charges reached about one hundred and fifty dollars. After two or three such experiences we rigged up a couple of wooden horses We bought wire and supplies and hired a mechanic, a young man, who became the superintendent of the shop later on, and was an enthusiast at his work. We rewound these armatures for between twenty-five and thirty dollars.

Mr. Payne: Was he an electrician?

Mr. Holmes: There was an electrician in connection with the station, but this mechanic was not able to go into involved questions. We had arc lights that were hung in the streets, and occasionally they would drop into the street, and the frame would be broken. We did not find it necessary, as the gentleman suggested, to maintain an iron and a brass foundry; but we did make patterns of our iron and brass repairs; had castings made for them, but finished the castings ourselves. We had in the shop none of the elaborate outlay of materials and implements spoken of. We had one machine lathe, about ten or twelve-inch swing, and hand tools. Our experience with that shop was that repair work was reduced from twenty-five to thirty-three per cent. of its previous cost when done outside.

REMARKS OF MR. EDWARD J. LAWLESS.

Mr. Edward J. Lawless There is no question that machine shops, on a proper scale, are desirable for a cable or an electric road. The great trouble is that the shop, when once started, keeps growing. It is astonishing, when you get a good mechanic or machinist, how he likes to get new and expensive tools, and, unless you keep a close watch, the first thing you know you have a shop that would supply half a dozen roads. One thing you ought not to do, and that is, go into the bolt or gear cutting business. These articles, as now made, you can get reasonable enough. I have had the same experience as my friend has just stated in reference to large machine armatures. We were troubled a great deal with Jersey lightning-the real article--and we had, I think, no less than six burnt out in succession.

We sent