the armatures to be repaired, and when returned, which was after considerable time, the bill was just about the same as the gentleman has stated. I have come to the conclusion that such work can be done cheaper at home. If you have a machine shop, do not have it too extensive or too elaborate. Have it in accordance with the size of the road.

REMARKS OF MR. WILLIAM M. RAMSEY.

Mr. William M. Ramsey: I agree with the gentleman, speaking in regard to drawing the line at certain points in the manufacture of parts in your own machine shops. The company which Mr. Henry and myself represent here has a pretty fully-equipped shop. I have prepared a few figures, which may interest you, and I will say that our observation for the past three years has confirmed the views expressed by the Committee on the subject, and those gentlemen who have spoken. We had nearly all the raw material finished for the first three months, and found the cost beyond our reach, which compelled us to put in lathes and machinery. and finish it completely, and now we buy the raw material and finish it ourselves. There is a point where we draw the line, and that is a point at which some gentlemen will differ with me, and that is in the matter of gear cutting.

We produce parts at prices about fifty per cent, less than the price we paid to the supply companies during the early stages. In the matter of gear wheels, we could not figure that there was any economy for us to cut them ourselves. A machine company, such as is springing up all over the country now, with ten or fifteen gear cutters side by side, and lathes of the most approved type of Brown and Sharp cutters, certainly will produce gear wheels of the most approved quality as to workmanship, at very much less cost than one man to whom you pay three dollars and a half a day, in your own shop, and have your machine idle half the time, or more than half the time. We cannot manufacture gear wheels as cheap as we can buy them.

I will give you some figures, which show exactly the cost to us of different parts of the motors, compared with what they cost us formerly.

STATEMENT OF COST OF MANUFACTURE OF MOTOR PARTS.

Cost of Intermediate Pinion - Sprague No. 6, of rawhide, with brass flanges-$5.55, for which we formerly paid from $8.00 to $14.00, from which we get an average life of five months.

Sprague No. 6 Armature Pinion, made the same way, costs us $3.46, and we get an average life of 5 months. Formerly cost from $7.00 to $11.00 each.

COST OF BUILDING COMMUTATOR COMPLETE, AS FOLLOWS:

Billings & Spencer's drop forge bars

5 lbs. mica at $1.00

I Cast-iron core, charcoal iron, 36 lbs., at 2jc..

I Brass washer, 3 lbs., at 18c....

1 Brass nut, 3 lbs., at 18c.

Total...

Labor-Cutting mica and making insulation

Setting up and testing

Lathe-work on core and segments..

Lathe-work on nut and washer

Drilling and tapping..

Milling

Total cost

.$10 08

5 00
90

63

63

$17 24

$0 95

70

2 45

75

95

25

$23 29

We have built commutators for from $5.00 to $6.00 cheaper, but have had the best of success with these perfectly made commutators.

It costs us 6 cents per car per day for armature bearings, using A No. I Babbitt, at 22 cents per pound. They average 5 months life each.

We make trolley harps for 25 cents each, which formerly cost us $2.75 each.

For which we formerly paid the home company $72.00.

COST OF WINDING FIELD COIL-INCLUDING ALL MATERIAL.

Mr. Payne: I will ask the gentleman if he has his repair shop under the charge of an electrical engineer or a mechanical engineer?

Mr. Ramsey: Our company employs both.

Mr. Payne: Where are the lines drawn?

Mr. Ramsey: The mechanical engineer is reponsible for all mechanical work. The engineers work in harmony. I represent the electrical department, and our mechanical engineer is here. We have always worked harmoniously together.

Mr. Payne: Do you press off your wheels?

Mr. Ramsey: No, sir; we pay one dollar and forty cents each to have this done in Allegheny City.

operate.

REMARKS OF MR. CHARLES W. WASON.

Mr. Charles W. Wason: I think there is one point, outside of the machine shop, that should be taken into consideration in the repairs of motors, namely, the pits in which you do your work; the manner of handling the motors, to facilitate putting them on and taking them off the cars. The number and length of the pits should be, of course, in proportion to the number of cars you There is such a thing as having the pit too long. I think it ought not to be longer than to take three cars, because, if you have it longer, you have got to take four or five cars out, and the one you want first is bound to be the last one to be taken out. shops the pits are so arranged that you can get four cars over them, but three are all we take in each pit. We have an hydraulic lift underneath the car, running on the track. One is at the exhibition hall, which we have found very serviceable, and when I tell you that we have taken off two motors and put two on, and had the car running out in thirty minutes, you will be sure it is a handy apparatus. We have taken an armature out, and put one in, and had the car running on the road in five minThe facility of handling the motors in your pit will greatly help your men, and I think it is as essential as a complete machine

In our

utes.

shop.

I think that our machine shop comprises about the same numDer of tools that the reports suggests. We have ninety motor cars, and I think we have no superfluous tools. Some we do not use all the time. I am confident that we save money. Of course, local conditions will vary. In order to take our apparatus to a

machine shop, we would have to cart it five miles. That must be taken into consideration. We have more than paid for all our machinery, I am confident, in the three years we have had it in our machine shop, without taking into consideration the amount of cartage we would have had to pay. I am confident that taking the motors from under the car, rather than raising the car body up, is preferable. I know that some have the other method, but we have found our own very advantageous and complete. If any of the gentlemen care to take the trouble of going out to our shops to-morrow, you will see our manner of taking cars off the

motors.

Mr. Lawless Do you have a traveling crane in your shop?

Mr. Wason: A traveling crane that hangs on both sides, and stretches across the shop, is not practicable, owing to the trolley wire stretching through the building. We have a crane on either side, and the post in the middle, taking the motor from the left and transferring it to a car on the right. We have also found advantageous a small four wheel truck. The motor is lowered on the truck, and is wheeled away, without lifting again, until it is put in order and ready to be placed under the car again.

We have a thirty-five H. P. Sprague stationary motor, to run our machinery, which we put in three years ago, and have not had any trouble with it. We are doing but ten to twelve horse power work with it; all we do is to start and stop it, and put a little oil in the oil boxes once a month, and that is all the attention it requires. It is run from the street-railroad circuit, and is as nearly perfect as possible. I think it will run fifty years.

REMARKS OF MR. GEORGE W. BAUMHOFF.

Mr. George W. Baumhoff: In connection with what has just been stated by Messrs. Ramsey and Wason, it affords me pleasure to say that some time ago I made a personal inspection of the various workshops and other departments of railroads operated by electric power. I am personally indebted, and now take this opportunity to express my thanks, to both Messrs. Ramsey and Wason for much valuable information that I received from them, particularly from Mr. Ramsey's master mechanic, Mr. McDonald, and Mr. Wason, both of whom took great delight in showing the many improvements that they had made in their systems. I trust that each of you who is interested, or about to be

interested, in the operation of an electric railway, will take this occasion to avail himself of the kind invitation to visit Mr. Wason's repair shops.

I desire to say, in connection with this question, that the road with which I am connected has in daily operation about eightyfive cars. We do not find it profitable to manufacture material for all our requirements. It is necessary, of course, to rewind the armatures. We do a great deal of manufacturing, but sometimes find it more profitable to buy of the numerous supply dealers. When we started out, about three years ago, we found the prices for the various material connected with the operation of an electric railway so high that we were compelled, for our own protection, to inaugurate a machine shop system. In doing so, we found it profitable to press on our own wheels. We also found it profitable to manufacture our commutators and cut our pinions and gears. In connection with the cutting of gears there is another important consideration, and that is the material from which the gears are made. The iron in the shape of soft metal will naturally cut easier, but it stands to reason that they will wear out quicker than when cut from metal cast with a view of durability. We have our gears cast in blanks, and do our own cutting. Our shops are operated by an electric motor, such as Mr. Wason has just described, which has now been in use for upwards of two and one-half years, and has not cost us anything for repairs, other than the repairs to the brushes.

REMARKS OF MR. ROBERT MCCULLOCH.

Mr. Robert McCulloch, of St. Louis: For the benefit of the Association I am willing to give my experience in the matter of machine shops. Not having gone into the electrical operation of our roads at that time, my remarks apply only to the machine shop for a cable road. Some years ago, for the sake of convenience, we began to establish a machine shop. In a little while we had implements and tools for doing all of our repair work. The chief engineer of the power house, being a sort of intermediate superintendent, had charge of the machine shop under my direction. It worked very well for a time until, being very much engrossed in other matters, I personally neglected the machine. shop for some little time. It began to grow and assumed such proportions that it was about the biggest part of the road. There