proceeded with.

House went into Committee on the Bill pro forma, and resumed. Bill brought up.

printed.

Amendments to be

House adjourned at half-past Eleven. o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS,

Friday, July 17, 1846.

MINUTES.] PUBLIC BILLS.-1 Service of Heirs (Scotland).

3. and passed. Coroners (Ireland); Viscount Hardinge's Annuity; Lord Gough's Annuity; Ropemakers; Spitalfields New Street.

who resided in a parish for a certain period | sideration; and he could not but express should not be removable, did not, techni- his delight that the measure was to be cally speaking, give him a settlement, but in point of practice it was the same thing; for what was settlement in point of practice but the irremovability from that parish? Some of his hon. Friends on that side of the House seemed to think that this question was exceedingly simple in itself, and expressed some surprise that any hon. Member should have suggested the existence of any sort of difficulty; but if he (Mr. Palmer) were not mistaken, the late Secretary for the Home Department was aware of the difficulties that attended this question. He (Mr. Palmer) was not at all sure that the measure would not give rise to a number of appeals in cases where persons in a particular parish thought fit to resist; and it was a question if hon. Members had sufficiently considered all the bearings of the case, and how it would affect certain parishes. It was said by an hon. Member that the great object of the measure was to benefit the poor; but they should take care that in seeking to do so they did not do an act of great injustice to some particular parishes. It was said, also, that this measure was proposed as a sort of recompense to the agricultural interest for the loss they might be supposed to have sustained by the passing of the Corn Law Act; but he did not look upon it as such; and at all events he did not think they should take compensation to themselves at the cost of other parties. He conceived it would be wise and prudent on the part of the right hon. Baronet to postpone further proceeding with this Bill until the report of the Committee for which the noble Lord had proposed to move.

MR. WODEHOUSE also wished the Bill postponed. The circumstances of different parts of the kingdom so much varied, that what was right in one was injurious in another; in the part of the country with which he was connected the injury would be so extensive that he must protest against the measure. The question ought not to be blinked, but it ought to be viewed in all its bearings, and this was a crude measure.

MR. TATTON EGERTON was a witness of the misery resulting in the year 1842, in the manufacturing districts, from the removal of the poor. He did not think that any objection should be taken to this measure because a Committtee was to be appointed next Session for the purpose of taking the law of settlement into con

PETITIONS PRESENTED. From Broadwater, and several other places, for Repeal of Lunatics Act and Lunatic Asylums and Pauper Lunatics Act.-From Railway Passen gers on the Bristol and Birmingham Line, against the Break of Gauge, and praying that the Recommendations of Her Majesty's Commissioners for Establishing a National Uniformity of Gauge may be adopted.-By the Duke of Richmond, from Chichester, against the proposed Measure for Altering the Law of Settlement.-By the Bishop of London, from Thirsk and Bury, for the Better Observance of the Sabbath, and against the Sale of Intoxicating Liquors on that Day; and from the Rector, Churchwardens, and others, of the Parish of Saint Clement Danes, for the Establishment of Public Baths and Washhouses.-From Natives of the Principality of Wales resident in London, praying that Means may be provided for Extending Education to the Poorer Classes in Wales.-From Provincial Synod of Caithness and Sutherland, for the Repeal of all Religious Tests on Admission to Offices in Scotch Universities and Parochial Schools. -From Ayr and Girvan, for Abolishing or Modifying the present Law of Strict Entail (Scotland).

THE PROTEST AGAINST THE CORN IMPORTATION BILL. LORD REDESDALE wished to call attention to the subject which had last evening been discussed, and to the statement which had been made by a noble Lord, that it was incompetent to a Peer to protest against a vote at the taking of which he had not been present. He was aware that there was an impression abroad that this was an irregular proceeding, which impression was founded upon the course that was taken in 1823, when the Duke of Somerset had signed a protest against an Amendment to the Address, he not having been present when the question was put. Having that morning taken down three volumes at random, he (Lord Redesdale) had found the record of three different occasions, in 1678, in 1720, and in 1781, when Peers had done the same thing. It was, therefore, clear that, whether regular or irregular, the practice complained of was no novelty. The Standing Order on this subject was to this effect :

"Ordered-That such Lords as shall make pro

LORD LYNDHURST said, that if the noble Lords when absent from the House had the right of voting by proxy, he did not see what objection there could be to them entering a protest against a measure. After some further conversation the sub-marks of their approbation of his conduct ject dropped.

LORD BROUGHAM observed, that having already expressed most unreservedly his concurrence in the views of the noble Duke (the Duke of Richmond) with respect to the annuities proposed to be given to Lord Hardinge and Lord Gough, it was unnecessary that he should say more on the subject at present; but he could not avoid offering a remark in reference to the observation which had just fallen from the same noble Duke respecting that illustrious man Sir Charles Napier. He believed that The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE moved neither in this nor any other country did the Third Reading of these Bills.

the history of war present to the notice of The DUKE of RICHMOND did not rise men a more gallant soldier or a more able to oppose this Bill being read a third commander than Sir Charles Napier. Not time, after the decision to which their even in India, the land of battles, had galLordships had come on the preceding even-lantry more dauntless or military skill more

namely, the question of the gauge on which railways were formed; and the object of the resolutions was to determine the gauge on which existing railways should be permitted to remain, and to establish some regulation with respect to the gauge on which railways at present in the course of construction, or to be hereafter constructed, should be made. He would take that opportunity of observing that the 4 feet 83

admirable been displayed than were exhibited at the battles of Meance and Hydrabad. His noble Friend, the noble Duke who now usually sat on the cross benches (the Duke of Wellington), had himself borne testimony to this fact; and he admitted that never in any engagement had any general been more prodigal of his person than Sir Charles Napier in the engagements in question. Not only had he shown himself a soldier of the most un-inch gauge, on which the great majority of daunted personal heroism, but he had achieved higher glory still, by displaying talents of generalship which it would be difficult to parallel, and a degree of strategetical skill which challenged the warmest admiration. It would be in vain to search our history, brilliant though it was in glorious exploits, for actions of military skill to transcend, he had almost said to match, those of Sir Charles Napier. No doubt it was a delicate matter to offer an observation on, but he must say he could not well derstand why services such as those of Sir Charles Napier should have been passed over with so little notice.

The DUKE of GRAFTON admitted the high claims which these great generals possessed on the gratitude of the Legislature and the public; but it was to be regretted that the nation did not appear to be sufficiently sensible of the depth and magnitude of the acknowledgments which were due to Divine Providence, to whose interposition all successes were to be attributed.

Bills read 3a. and passed.

THE QUESTION OF THE GAUGES. The EARL of DALHOUSIE rose to bring forward the Resolutions with respect to the Gauge question, of which he had formerly given notice. The noble Earl said that he should have brought them forward at an earlier period, had it not been for the late change in the Government; and he then undertook the task in consequence solely of a request to that effect from his noble Friend the President of the Board of Trade (the Earl of Clarendon). As the grounds of those resolutions were very fully stated in the Minute of the Board of Trade presented to that and to the other House of Parliament, and as they were founded on the Report of the Gauge Commissioners, he did not feel it necessary to occupy their Lordships' time at any great length on that occasion. Those resolutions did not refer to the railway system generally, but related exclusively to one point

our railways had been constructed, had not been originally adopted upon any fixed principle, or from any proofs of its superiority, but solely from the accidental circumstance that that was the usual width of the waggons which ran on tram roads at the period when railways were first introduced. At the end of the year 1844 there were in this country about 1,900 miles of railway on the narrow gauge system, and about 300 miles on the broad gauge system. But the question of the break of gauge had not up to that time arisen. At the commencement of the year 1845, however, when the enormous number of about 250 Railway Bills came before Parliament, the question had been raised, and especially with two lines—namely, the line from Oxford to Rugby, and the line from Oxford to Worcester and Wolverhampton. Commissioners were subsequently appointed to inquire into the gauge question. Very strong attacks had been made on the report of these Commissioners, and their judgment and impartiality had been severely impugned. But, after having inquired into the observations made in their report, and the objections urged against it, he felt bound to state, in justice to those Gentlemen, that he entertained the highest opinion not only of the ability and the industry with which they had discharged the difficult task intrusted to them, but of their entire fairness and impartiality. The Commissioners had come to the conclusion that a break of gauge was a very serious evil; and further, that there were no mechanical means of mitigating that evil. They were of opinion, therefore, that a uniformity of gauge was most desirable, and they afterwards proceeded to consider how it might be attained. After having read several extracts from the evidence given before the Commissioners, the noble Earl proceeded to observe that the Report which they had made on this subject had been referred to the department of the late Government to which the consideration of such matters was usually left; and the Board of Trade

lowed by a Bill (as some seemed to think they ought, to be operative) carrying out and embodying the spirit they contained, might have the effect of influencing the decisions of Parliament with reference to the drafting of all future Railway Bills, into which clauses in accordance with these resolutions might be inserted. Some of their Lordships might say they ought to have a more grand and comprehensive scheme than the present; that, in carrying out the recommendation of the Commissioners for the establishment of uniformity of gauge, they would do something more extensive; but it appeared to him that these resolutions were of a more practical and useful nature, and he would be satisfied to forego the credit of introducing a grander or more comprehensive system, if he had the satisfaction of inducing their Lordships to adopt that which he believed would be a more just and practical remedy for the arrest of the evils which they all acknowledged existed in the break of gauge in the railway communication of this country. The noble Earl concluded by moving the following Resolutions:

had accordingly devoted the most serious | chester and Southampton Bill, which he and anxious intention to so important a understood had passed the other House of subject; and the result of their delibera- Parliament. These resolutions, if not foltions was contained in the minutes which their Lordships of the Committee of the Council for Trade had furnished. The Board of Trade had felt, as well as the Commissioners, the full difficulty of this subject of establishing uniformity of gauge; but they had endeavoured to deal with it as well as they could after giving all the circumstances of the case the fullest consideration which they could bestow. They found that it would involve an expense of not less than about one million sterling to alter the existing broad gauge lines to the narrow; and they did not consider it would be fair or just to the broad gauge companies to compel them to incur such an expense, and more especially as these companies had the greatest claims upon the public tenderness, in consequence of the great improvements which they had effected in railway travelling, both with respect to speed and safety. Such a compulsion wonld be a breach of faith that they could not approve of, secing that those companies had laid down their works under the sanction of Acts of Parliament; neither could the Board of Trade recommend that the sum should be contributed by the Exchequer, nor by the narrow gauge companies. Either of these three courses would be unjust, or unreasonable, or both. Therefore, as they could not compel the companies at present formed on the broad gauge to change to the narrow, it behoved them to consider how they might best arrange this matter with reference to the railways in course of construction and extension, as well as those that were in existence, or might be hereafter proposed. Some had recommended that the country should be divided into districts, and that the broad gauge should be adopted in one, and the narrow in another. But this course the Board of Trade deemed objectionable, and they had accordingly decided against it; and if the House adopted the resolutions which he had then to propose, and which had already been agreed to by the House of Commons, he thought it would tend much to the public convenience. The noble Earl then proceeded to refer in detail to the circumstances under which the Board of Trade had sanctioned the recommendations conveyed in the resolutions, to which latter he also alluded. One proviso had, in the end of the third resolution, he 5. That it is the Opinion of this House that it observed, reference especially to the Man-is not expedient to alter the provisions of the Acts

"1. That it is the Opinion of this House, that no Line of Railway should hereafter be formed on any other than the Four Feet Eight and a Half Inches Gauge, excepting Lines to the South of the small Branches of a few Miles in Length, in imexisting Line from London to Bristol, and excepting mediate Connexion with the Great Western and South Wales Railways; but that no such Line as above excepted should be sanctioned by Pariiament unless a Special Report shall have been made by the Committee on the Bill, setting forth the Reasons which have led the Committee to advise that such a Line should be formed on any other than the Four Feet Eight and a Half Inches Gauge.

"2. That it is the Opinion of this House that Provision should be made by Law to prevent the Directors of any Railway Company from altering the Gauge of such Railway.

"3. That in order to complete the general Chain of Narrow Gauge Communication from the North of England in the Southern Coast, and to the Port of Bristol, any suitable Measure be promoted to form a Narrow Gauge Link from Gloucester to Bristol; and also from Oxford to Basingstoke, or by any shorter Route connecting the proposed Rugby and Oxford Line with the South-Western Railway, without Prejudice, however, to the Foruniform Gauge, and by a direct Route, the North mation of any other Line, also connecting upon an of England with the Southern Coast.

4. That it is the Opinion of this House that it is expedient that the South Wales Line and its formed on the Broad Gauge.

Branches to Monmouth and Hereford should be

for forming a Line of Railway from Rugby to Ox- of. In his opinion, these resolutions would ford, and for forming a Line of Railway from Ox-be found powerless for good; and he was ford to Worcester and Wolverhampton, with respect to the Gauge on which they may be formed, or with respect to the Powers therein conferred on the Board of Trade."

not, therefore, inclined to look upon them with any particular favour. It appeared to him that the laying down of a double line would compel the adoption of broadgauge carriages. If they were to mix the broad gauge and narrow gauge carriages, they would be running the risk of accidents occurring, particularly as regarded passenger trains. He believed that the two accidents which had occurred on the Great Western line had arisen from the circumstance of the carriages being of too light a description. With regard to the transfer of merchandize by slower trains, he did not think that the objection arising from the mixing of carriages was entitled to the same weight. He was not, however, inclined to oppose the resolutions, for they might be of some service; but he would impress on the noble Lord the President of the Board of Trade the expediency of even now instituting an inves

LORD REDESDALE said, although there might be a general concurrence with the views and resolutions of the noble Earl, few persons would be satisfied with the state in which these resolutions would leave the question under discussion. He regretted the adoption of these resolutions for one reason, and that was that they seemed to preclude the hope of this country ever possessing uniformity of guage; a matter which all parties unconnected with railroads were so unanimous in believing was a most desirable object to accomplish. It would be, in fact, the only thing creditable to this Empire, which had distinguished itself by the first introduction of this system; but if not adopted, he feared that England, which had originated railway communication, would present nothing to future ages but a bungling and com-tigation as to what was the best gauge, and plicated system, when it ought to have been more perfect than that of any other country. He thought that great blame attached to the Commission for not having reported what in their opinion was the best gauge. It was, he thought, impossible even for those most interested in the narrow gauge to deny that, as far as increased speed was concerned, the advantage was decidedly in favour of the broad gauge. The point, therefore, which the Commission should have determined was what gauge was most for the advantage of public. He believed that if they had recommended a medium gauge, many of the difficulties would have been got rid of, and that such a recommendation would have met with little or no opposition if it had reference to rail- LORD KINNAIRD had given notice of ways now in the course of being con- a Motion on the subject, but, in consestructed, and to those which hereafter quence of what had fallen from the noble might be constructed. He believed if Lord opposite, he should defer bringing it such a medium gauge had been recommend- forward until some future day, when he ed and so applied, that in a few years the hoped the noble Lord would give him his number of railways constructed upon that support. He thought it was a great misrecommendation would have been so great, fortune that the Commissioners had not that the old lines would have found them- inquired as to what was the best gauge for selves under the necessity of adopting a si- the public, instead of limiting their inmilar arrangement; and he did not think that quiries to the merits of the two gauges at the existing gauges could have had any rea-present in existence. He believed if they son to complain if Parliament had sanctioned such a gauge. He thought the present resolutions objectionable, inasmuch as they contemplated two gauges throughout the country, and because they would do nothing to check the evils at present complained

the one most likely to be ultimately beneficial to the country. If an announcement of such an investigation were made, it would make the public aware that a uniformity of gauge had not been lost sight of. If, on the contrary, they passed these resolutions without any such announcement, the impression would at once be created that the two gauges at present in existence were to be continued, with all their rivalry. He hoped the noble Lord at the head of the Board of Trade would turn his attention to the subject, and make some declaration of his views, so that the public should not imagine that the country was to be subjected to the grievous evil of having two gauges.

had gone into the inquiry as to a medium gauge, that they would have made a very different report. He thought the present resolutions objectionable, inasmuch as they tied them up to the adoption of an inferior gauge.