sidered themselves precluded from taking any means which the forms of the House would entitle them to apply to, for endeavouring to carry out their objects. Indeed it would be evident that he could not have made any such agreement, without consulting with his Colleagues in that House, and elsewhere. As to the remarks of the noble Duke respecting change of opinion, he could not see why any man should be censured for an alteration in his sentiments; but on the present occasion nothing of the kind had taken place. There was something in the tone of the noble Duke which he had no reason to expect from him; and he could not but wonder what he had ever seen in him (the Earl of Ripon) to make him think he would be open to the charge he had brought against him. EARL GREY was perfectly aware that it was not absolutely necessary to give notice of amendments; but when important Bills were before the House, it was usual to give notice whenever any amendment, making a great change in the principle of the Bill, was to be brought forward. No such notice had been given in the present instance. The other House, in the exercise of that right, from which he should be sorry to see any departure, certainly could not accept a Bill so altered and sent back. The DUKE of CLEVELAND contended that no notice was necessary. had heard but one opinion of the Bill, He never and that was, that it was the shabbiest thing in the world. He had therefore voted against it, and would repeat the vote whenever he was called on to do so. LORD BROUGHAM said it was competent to any noble Lord to move any amendment in Committee without giving any notice whatever; but still, it was usual to give notice of any important amendment. After some further conversation, Report postponed. 542 question which the noble Earl had just put to him, was one which, if he mistook not, had already been put to his noble Friend the President of the Board of Trade in the course of the debates upon given an answer to that question; and that measure. His noble Friend had to that answer he (Lord Ripon) was also disposed to adhere, viz., that it such an was not possible for any man to give should be satisfactory. The seasons would, answer to such a question as he apprehended, operate upon prices under this Bill just as they had under former Bills relating to the same subject; and, looking at the prices at which corn had ranged under former Corn Bills, he saw there had been nothing but extreme fluctuations in them. He could not help thinkhad recommended those Bills to the adoping, however, that if any of those who tion of Parliament had been called upon at the time to state what would be the prices of corn under their measures, no such questions; or if they had been, the answer would or could have been given to statements of those who gave them would have been falsified by the results. would not himself, therefore, undertake, any more than they had done in regard to to what would be the prices of corn under their measures, to prophesy with respect this Bill. He EARL STANHOPE said, he did not the price in any one year-all he wished ask the Government to say what would be to know was, what would be the price on an whether the price of corn, in short, would average of any number of yearsthis Bill. Not having had an answer to be higher or lower under the operation of his question, he would only say that it was apparent to their Lordships, and it ought to be made known to the country, that this measure forward without any knowHer Majesty's Government were bringing ledge of the question whatever. The EARL of WINCHILSEA must the noble Earl had given to his noble say, that he considered the answer which Friend to be most unsatisfactory. THE CORN IMPORTATION BILL. EARL STANHOPE said, that before their Lordships went into Committee again upon the Corn Importation Bill, he wished to put a question to his noble Friend the the noble Earl the President of the Board The DUKE of RICHMOND said, that if President of the Board of Control. was anxious to learn from his noble Friend which had been put to him by his noble Ile of Control would not answer the question whether he expected that the effect of their Friend, he (the Duke of Richmond) would Corn Bill would be to raise the prices of answer it for him. corn, to leave them where they were, or would turn to a despatch which had lately If their Lordships to depress them? to the Governor General of Canada, they been written by Mr. Secretary Gladstone The EARL of RIPON replied, that the would find that Mr. Gladstone stated that, | silence was observed by the Government on whilst he did not presume to anticipate a subject of such importance, it did cause what were likely to be the precise limits of a suspicion in the country as to their mothe ruling prices of corn after this Bill tives and intentions; and it was in that should have passed, yet that the most sense, and in that sense only, that he competent persons did not think that there used the words which had been complainwould be any reduction below what had beened of. the prices of the last three years, 1843, 1844, and 1845. Now, this was the opinion of a Member of Parliament, and a Cabinet Minister, upon this question of price; and he could not but think that this despatch must have some weight with their Lordships, and the more so from the publicity which had been given to the document, for it was not often in this country that a Secretary of State wrote a despatch to the Governor of a Colony, and then published it in a newspaper before the Governor could have seen it. And, my Lords (said the noble Duke), if I was the Governor General of Canada, I should feel somewhat indignant in reading my instructions for the first time in a public paper. EARL STANHOPE again rose, and said he must beg to be allowed to ask another question of the noble Earl (Earl Ripon). Ile wished to be informed whether the intention of the Government was by this Bill to raise prices, to lower them, or to leave them where they were? The noble Earl need not surely be under the necessity of going into any very abstruse calculation in order to answer a question so simple as that, as it was merely what the Government intended that he wished to be informed of. If the great autocrat of the Government would condescend to communicate to the Cabinet what was his intention as to prices under this measure, or if he had communicated it, he did trust that the noble Earl would tell them what it was. The EARL of RIPON said, the question of the noble Earl appeared to him to be pretty much the same as his former one, and he could, therefore, give him no other answer than he had already given. EARL STANHOPE retorted, that they could only judge of the intentions of the Government from their suspicious silence. The EARL of RIPON observed, that he objected to the noble Earl using such words as suspicious silence." What right had the noble Earl to term their silence "suspicious?" He (Lord Ripon) acted from a sense of his duty, and he would not submit to imputations of this kind. EARL STANHOPE said, that he had not meant to say anything offensive to the noble Earl; but he must say, that when EARL GREY said, that though the Government, in the exercise of their discretion, had thought proper not to answer the question which had been put to them with respect to their intention in regard to the range of prices under this Bill, he hoped he (Earl Grey) might be permitted, as a humble supporter of the measure, to state his own views as to what was the object of it in that respect. He apprehended that the object of this measure was, not to secure 80s. a quarter for wheat, as was the professed object of the Bill of 1815-not 60s., as was calculated upon by the promoters of the measure of 1828-not to obtain 55s. as was expected under the Bill of 1842— but to secure to the country a sufficiency of corn at a natural price, be that price what it might. The EARL of STRADBROKE said, he had merely risen to protest against what the noble Earl (Earl Grey) on the Opposition benches had stated to have been the professed object of the existing Corn Law, and of the previous Acts. The intention of those measures had not been, as the noble Earl had stated, to secure 80s. in 1815, or 60s. in 1828, or 55s. in 1842, but only to protect the agriculturist of this country against foreign competition. The EARL of RIPON here moved the Order of the Day; and House in Committee accordingly. CORN IMPORTATION BILL follow. consequences would The EARL of WICKLOW was bound to accept the explanation of the noble Earl; but no doubt many of their Lordships had advocated this Bill on that ground; and it was a very rational ground for so doing in respect of the other sorts of grain named | price of corn would fall, but that if it did in the Bill. He could assure their Lord- fall, such and such ships, that it was not with any satisfaction to himself that he had undertaken this duty; and if it was objected to him that he had not given any formal notice of his intention to move this Amendment, he could only say that one of his chief reasons for not having done so was this-that he had indeed the whole argument of "cheap hoped, until the last moment, that some bread" depended upon it. But he wished one of the noble Lords opposite, to whom, now rather to take the argument of those he must observe, an Amendment of this who said that this measure would remove nature more consistently belonged, would the fluctuations of the sliding-scale; and as have brought this proposition forward. to that, his opinion was, that the effect of Feeling that the Amendment would im- a sliding-scale would be to equalize prices, prove the Bill, he had taken upon himself if it were formed on a right foundation, the not very agreeable task of originating and that the present sliding-scale had it himself. The question had been so failed, as it certainly had, from a defect in thoroughly discussed on its general princi- the machinery by which it was carried into ples, that he would confine himself, as far operation. Upon the whole, however, as possible, to the particular subject of his considering the circumstances of this counAmendment. His noble Friend at the try, he thought that a fixed duty was the Table had put some very pertinent ques- best. He had stated that opinion several tions to the Government in regard to the years ago; but then both parties were effect of this measure, which might have united in thinking that protection to the been answered, and he thought ought to farmer was the main object, and he yielded have been answered. Almost every noble to the general impression. If, then, the Lord who had spoken had ventured an great object were to prevent fluctuations, opinion upon that matter. Some noble he need not produce any arguments to Lords had stated that their opinion de- show that his Amendment could not have cidedly was, that the price of corn would the effect of making the price variable, for fall; and they had urged that as a strong the fluctuations must be precisely the same reason for supporting the Bill. Others without this duty as with it; and that he had thought that its effect would be not to put forward as a strong and invincible arlower the price of corn, but to produce gument in favour of it, because, whilst the steadiness, and prevent fluctuation; and public lost nothing, and the consumer lost the noble Earl opposite (Earl of Clarendon) nothing, the public revenue would be the might be considered the representative of gainer; and he could see no conceivable the first class. That noble Earl thought reason in the subject itself, why the Gothat the price would fall, and he had illus-vernment should needlessly throw away so trated the consequences of that, by saying large an amount of revenue. But even that if it fell from 50s. to 40s., it would supposing that his proposition should have cause a saving of 12,000,000l. to the the effect of raising the average price of wheat consumers of this country; but the wheat to the extent of the additional duty, noble Earl did not seem to consider to if the greater object of preventing fluctuawhat extent that argument might be push- tion were attained, could any evil conseed. He seemed to forget that that quences result? None. As regarded the 12,000,000l., though gained to the con- working classes, the farmers, and the revesumer, would be lost to the country. If nue of the State, and as regarded also the that amount were to be transferred from landed proprietors of the country, that the consumers of wheat to the producers in small addition of price would be advantathis country-the country would sustain geous rather than prejudicial. The fixity no loss; but if, under reduced prices to be of price being attained, surely the working caused by this Bill, there should be a trans- classes could not suffer from this alterafer from the consumers of wheat to the tion. producers of foreign countries, then that which was saved to the consumers of wheat would be lost to the country. The EARL of CLARENDON said, he There had been much discussion on what regulated the rate of wages; and he admitted that the fluctuating price of corn did not regulate the rate of wages; but that many other things entered into the consideration; but, cæteris paribus, in the T long run the fixed price of corn must affect the rate of wages; and, therefore, to the labourer it would not matter if the price were slightly raised, because, in the long run, his wages must rise in proportion. Then, as to the farmer; with his fixed charges on the land, the poor and other rates, he must be benefited by the change. As to the revenue derivable from this source in the run of years, it would amount to not less than 1,000,000l. sterling; and when noble Lords opposite came into office, as soon they must, and proposed and carried those alterations in the sugar duties, in which he thought they were right, and from which they expected a large accession of revenue, with these means they might reduce at least one-half of the income tax. He could not help remarking how studiously noble Lords had avoided all reference to the landed interest in this debate; the reason was clear-they were anxious to avoid all possibility even of suspicion of interested motives; but, in taking that course, they had done, he thought, an injustice to a most useful and necessary class of the community. They might talk of the great advantage of pushing their commerce to the ends of the world, and of the blessings of free trade; but the best, the surest, and the greatest market for the manufacturing industry of the country was that called the home market, which the landed interest afforded. There had, however, been some allusion to the landed interest, and it came from a quarter from which he should least have expected it. The right rev. Prelate who had introduced that matter, had shown, at all events, that if oratorical powers were a qualification for that Bench, no man deserved it better than himself. But he (Lord Wicklow) was surprised to hear with what complacency the right rev. Prelate, recently elevated to honours and rank, seemed to contemplate a change by which the landed interest would be ousted from their property. The right rev. Prelate had stated, that when he visited his diocese he had found the habitations of the poor in a miserable condition; and that the rectors had told him that it arose from the poverty of the landlord; and then the right rev. Prelate rejoiced that the result of this measure would be such a change of property as would remove such incompetent possessors of property. Now, he had endeavoured to conceive what sort of man that landlord might be. He had conceived him a person who, from a long line of an Su cestors, had inherited this property; and who, relying upon the faith of the protection which the Legislature had given, had attempted to make charges upon his land for family purposes; and he believed that the transfer of property from such hands would be attended with indelible injury to the whole country. He had endeavoured to turn over in his mind the objections which could be urged to his Amendment, and the first argument which suggested itself, taking the form of a question, was this-" Will you tax the food of the people?" But the answer which would naturally be given to the question was, if it were wrong to tax the food of the people, why was it that they taxed every necessary of life, and all food, except corn?— why should they leave corn the only untaxed article of consumption? gar was as much a necessary of life as wheat; indeed, if they took the whole Empire, including Scotland and Ireland, it was more so-and yet they taxed sugar. Now, his noble and learned Friend had stated that there was a broad distinction between duties imposed for revenue, and duties imposed for protection. That, where a duty was imposed equally upon all, it became revenue; but where it was confined to one article, it was protection: now, without quarrelling with that definition, he did not see that it had much to do with the argument. He wanted a duty for revenue, and he did not want it the less because others considered that it would operate as a protection. If laid on, it operated both as revenue and protection; and whenever they might be able to dispense with their Customs altogether, and to get commerce perfectly free, he would willingly give up the duty on corn; but all political economists agreed that customs duties were the best mode of taxation, and it was clear that they must exist as long as this country existed. He therefore said, that it was due to the farming interest of the country to continue protection, though for the purposes of revenue. And here he must say, that he could not understand why the noble Lords on the Opposition side should now turn round upon this subject, except for the sake of imitating the example of those who sat opposite to them— and discard all their former opinions. But he thought they might suspect a reason which the noble Lords would not avow; indeed he believed that if that most impolitic and imprudent letter which had been written by a noble Lord at the end be disagreeable to Canada, would be most unwise. Upon all these grounds, therefore, he begged to move— "That instead of 1s., there be a duty of 5s. on wheat imported after the 1st of February, 1849." of last year, evidently intended to embar- | Colonies; and he begged to ask, was it rass a Government, and not written with not desirable at present to satisfy Canada? any notion of the consequences that would Let them look to the state of affairs in follow; he believed that, but for that im- that part of the world, would any one say prudent and most unfortunate letter, those that the war now raging between America noble Lords opposite would now be sitting and Mexico would not be attended with on that side of the House, with the oppor- serious consequences? If successful, the tunity of proposing their own measure, Americans would only be more proud, and and satisfying and gratifying the country. more inclined to dictate unreasonable terms He knew, of course, that the effect of to this country; and if unsuccessful, which carrying his Amendment must, at present, was not likely, they would then seek some be to defeat the Bill; but he was most other ground for the display of their eneranxious so to do-for this reason, that gies and valour. Certainly to take the they might get a better and more service-present moment for any step which would able Bill. He did not want any slidingscale he did not think a sliding-scale applicable to the circumstances of this country-but he was anxious to set this vexatious question at rest; and he was convinced that it was impossible to do so by this present Bill. Those who expected that, were, in his opinion, as ignorant of the state of feeling in the agricultural population as they were ignorant of what was passing in another hemisphere; and he believed, that if they succumbed to the power of the Anti-Corn-Law League, the agitation which that body had excited would be but a slight whisper, in comparison with the roaring tempest which they were raising about their ears. The agricultural population of this country were far too proud and independent to suffer themselves to be trodden upon in this manner; they would be ready enough to sacrifice their own interests, if others were called upon to make the same sacrifice; but when they saw a new principle applied to them, and to them alone, they would never be satisfied with it; and therefore, he was anxious to give to the noble Lords opposite an opportunity of ingratiating themselves with the country. If noble Lords opposite came into office, and introduced such a Bill as he proposed, they would give satisfaction to the country; and if that was the case, what signified a little delay? He asked whether it was not well known that every man in that House, except a few leaders, in their consciences preferred such a measure; and was it creditable then to that House to be influenced by other considerations? He believed that the rejection of the Bill for the purpose of an Amendment of this sort, would give satisfaction to the agricultural population, and no dissatisfaction to manufacturers, who were divided on the effect of the measure. In his Amendment he had however excepted the corn of our own The MARQUESS of CLANRICARDE said, that his opinions upon the general subject of the debate being known, he should not have troubled their Lordships if it had not been for the reference made by the noble. Earl to the noble Lords on the Opposition side; and as he (the Marquess of Clanricarde) was old-fashioned enough to desire to be consistent, he would show to their Lordships that in supporting this measure he was acting in perfect consistency with his former conduct. He would remind their Lordships, that in 1841, when he seconded the Address moved by his lamented friend Lord Spencer, the debate turned on whether a moderate fixed duty should be substituted for the then existing protection to agriculture. In that debate both himself and the noble Earl expressed their opinion that it was desirable that the protection to agriculture should be reduced as speedily and as safely as possible: consequently, it was clear his opinion had undergone no change; and the noble Earl who had now introduced this Bill, and who upon the occasion he referred to had moved the Amendment to the Address, drew particular attention to their remarks, and said that their object was clearly free trade. In explanation, he had stated that he wished certainly to come gradually to the abolition of all protective duties, because he did not agree with his noble Friend (Lord Spencer) in thinking that they could at that time be safely repealed at once. Now as regarded the Amendment of the noble Earl, he was of opinion that it would fail in its objectit would be not even a remnant of protection for the country. He (the Marquess of Clanricarde) was not one of those who |