fended himself from the attack of his noble | on it, but dissuading from protracting them. Friend. His noble Friend most grievously He then went to two other friends of his, misapprehended him if he thought that he (Lord Brougham) meant to cast on him (the Marquess of Lansdowne) the slightest reflection as to the purity of his conduct. His noble Friend appeared to think he had done so; for his noble Friend defended his own conduct. He had known his noble Friend now upwards of half a century; and he had never known his noble Friend to act so as to require even an explanation. But would not any noble Lord think from what fell from his noble Friend that he (Lord Brougham) had been playing the unworthy part of collecting information, as an eavesdropper, of spying into what passed at a meeting within the walls of a private mansion -of collecting that information from reporters or secret informers? What if that meeting had been attended by from sixty to eighty persons-what if it had been summoned by circular--what if the members when they dispersed, talked of what had passed at the corner of every street-what if they spoke about it in the privacy of every club where persons who were politicians and persons who were not politicians passed their time-what if reports of that private meeting, held at a private mansion, appeared in the newspapers to the length of a column and a half, as he had read in a newspaper that was brought to him by a friend of his, who was not at the meeting, but who was a sincere friend of the Corn Bill? Surely, there was an end of privacy -an end of private information-an end of violating the sanctity of private dwellings-an end of unduly obtaining information by means of secret informers-an end of the advice which his noble Friend had given him, that when next he employed reporters he should provide persons who would give no inaccurate reports. The friend he had mentioned was greatly alarmed at the probable risk to which that meeting exposed the passing of the Corn Bill; and it was told him by a person who was not at the meeting that part of what passed (which was not mentioned in the report) was some advice given respecting the passing of the Coercion Bill. That was suppressed in the report. He then asked why that part was suppressed; he was told that it was thought it ought not to be made public during the debates on the Coercion Bill. There was, therefore, something said at the meeting about the passing of the Coercion Bill; and now they were to be told that advice was given, not to protract the debates and they told him that some members of the meeting had then said, "We will take care that the division on the Coercion Bill does not take place until the Corn Bill has passed in the Lords." His noble Friend had said that the meeting was strongly recommended not to protract the debates on the Coercion Bill. [The Marquess of LANSDOWNE I said, not to unduly protract.] Then his noble Friend had got into a dilemma, for either the advice was qualified, and was not unduly to protract, which meant to protract, but not unduly, or the noble person who gave that advice had no power or influence on those to whom he gave it; for anything less followed, anything more entirely continued and acted against than that advice had been, he (Lord Brougham) had never seen. With respect to the remarks of his noble Friend (Lord Stanley) applying to himself, he must say that a less fair or more extraordinary course he would say, with all kindness to his noble Friend, a more unscrupulous course, than his noble Friend had taken he never saw in any place; for his noble Friend, in order to introduce his quotation-a very excellent joke, he admitted-had put in a word which he (Lord Brougham) had never used, which he never had an idea of using, and which his noble Friend could not have imagined that he used. He never dreamt of using that word—a word which he, at his time of life, as well as his noble Friend at his less advanced time of life, had both of them the greatest possible interest in rasing out of their vocabularies. Such a mere invention was resorted to for the purpose of introducing a quotation in jest. But there was another thing said by his noble Friend of a different kind, of a more serious nature. He was astonished at, and must most indignantly repel and cast from him, the insinuation with which the noble Lord closed his remarks. He (Lord Brougham) stated that he believed the present Government would not fulfil the wishes of those who desired to see a change of Administration; that there would be no change; and his noble Friend took upon him to state that no doubt he (Lord Brougham) was showing, by the zeal of his defence, that he was defending a Government that was not going out. That statement was cheered by some, apparently ignorant of the history of the last seven years, and the proceedings in Parliament during that time. It was cheered by some The EARL of BESBOROUGH wished to say a few words in relation to the meeting to which the noble and learned Lord had referred, and which had taken place at the House of a noble Friend. It was right he should state that the meeting was one of that description the nature of which the noble and learned Lord knew as well as he did. It was held in reference to one particular question, the Coercion Bill; and was in no way connected with the Corn Bill. That meeting took place at the House of his noble Friend, in order that he might consult those with whom he usually acted as to what should be done with that measure: there were present from sixty to seventy, or more persons, and among those a great number connected with Ireland. He asserted, distinctly, that no reference was made to any such proposal as postponing the discussion on the Coercion Bill till the Corn Bill had passed-that there was nothing stated in reference to any connection between different parties, though undoubtedly there were many at that meeting connected with Ireland, who stated distinctly that they had committed themselves to their constituencies to give every opposition in their power to the Coercion Bill, and that the probability was the discussion would be protracted considerably longer than those connected with the representation of this country might have wished. [Lord BROUGHAM: Beyond the Corn Bill.] No, he did not say that; on the contrary, it was the anxious wish of the meeting that the discussion should not be protracted unnecessarily. The noble Lord in whose House they met more than once pressed them not to protract it longer than was necessary; and he begged once more to repeat that there was no intimation, directly or indirectly, with regard to the Corn Bill as to any advice given to protract the one debate for the purpose of having the other finished. who had not access to know the facts as | detaining them, and would not enter into the his noble Friend (Lord Stanley) knew question before the House, except to say them. He defied any man breathing to that 5s. was no measure for the protection cast the shadow of a shade of an imputa- of the home-market. tion on his motives in defending the measures of the present Government. He asked what he had gained by taking part with the present Government? He called on all the noble Lords who sat there, and with whom he was joined in the defence of their measures, in the defence of their official conduct and Ministerial existence, from his noble and gallant Friend the noble Duke opposite, who knew what he alluded to, down to the latest admitted into the Cabinet, who knew it less, or not at all, as they were not in the Cabinet at the time-he called upon all of them to say if there was the shadow of an imputation upon the motives, the absolute and necessary purity of the motives, which led to his defence of this Government. It was no fault of othersit was his fault, and his fault only, that he was out of office, a supporter merely, and a friend, of the present Government. That Government was no sooner formed than he declined, firmly but respectfully declined, most high and brilliant offers, and coupled with absolute political independence. This should not have been wrung from him but for the imputation conveyed (unintentionally, he believed), by his noble Friend. He certainly had chosen to be unconnected with office, to hold no office, either judicial or otherwise, in, or in connexion with, the present Government, for reasons of his own, for reasons applying to his own personal convenience, and from no want of respect for its Members, from no want of confidence in them, or want of friendship for them individually. He could not allow that debate to close without making this statement. When it was said to a man that the Government was not "likely to change because he defended them so well,' what was it but to cast an imputation on his motives for so defending them? One word more. He had never cast any imputation on the motives of the protection party. He had never blamed them for their opinions, but he had blamed them for not using better tactics for the defeat of this measure. His statement was, that they might have protracted the debate till a change in the Government took place; and that they might thus have defeated the Bill, which he rejoiced they had not: nothing more had he said in the matter. He had to apologize to their Lordships for LORD BROUGHAM: Then my informant has been very much in fault. On Question "To insert after the word wheat' the words 'not being the production of our Colonies, five shillings': Contents 107; Not-Contents 140: Majority 33. So it was resolved in the negative. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Tuesday, June 16, 1846. tice. Reported. County Works Presentments (Ireland) Amend ment. PETITIONS PRESENTED. By several hon. Members, from various places, praying the House to pass a Bill for Compensating Proprietors of Land for Sites for Free Churches (Scotland), and for securing Accommodation to the Congregations. By several hon. Members, from a number of places, for the Better Observance of, and for the Prevention of the Sale of Intoxicating Liquors on the Sabbath.-By Mr. Moffatt, from Merchants and others interested in the Sugar Trade, for Alteration of Duty on Sugar. By Mr. John Abel Smith, from Manufacturers of Tobacco and Snuff in the Port of London, for Reduction of Duty on Tobacco.-From Richard Sargent, of No. 10, Norfolk Street, Strand, in the County of Middle sex, Gentleman, 'praying that leave may be given to an Officer of the House to attend the Trial of an Action in the Court of Queen's Bench, and produce the Maps and Plans of the Great Munster Railway.-From Inhabitants of the Parish of All Saints, Wandsworth, in the County of Surrey, for Revision and Alteration of the Laws relating to Jurors.-By Mr. Richard Hodgson, from Passengers travelling between Birmingham and Bristol by Railway on the 8th, 10th, 11th, and 12th Days of June, and from Persons engaged in the Trade of Public Carriers, for carrying out the Recommendation of Her Majesty's Commissioners, who have lately reported on the Gauge Question, and establish, at the earliest possible Period, a the port of Bristol, any suitable measures should be promoted to form a narrow gauge link from Gloucester to Bristol, and also from Oxford to Basingstoke, or by any other shorter route connecting the proposed Rugby and Oxford line with the South Western Railway. "4. That the South Wales line, and its branches to Monmouth and Hereford, should be permitted to be formed on the broad gauge, as sanctioned by their Act. "5. That the Rugby and Oxford line, and the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton line, should be permitted to be formed on the broad gauge, as sanctioned by their acts; that the Lords of the Committee of the Privy Council for Trade shall exercise the powers conferred upon them by the several Acts, and shall require that additional narrow gauge rails shall forthwith be laid down from Rugby to Oxford, and from Wolverhampton to the junction with the Birmingham and Gloucester line; and that if it should hereafter appear that there is a traffic requiring accommodation on the narrow gauge from the Staffordshire districts to the southern coast, any suitable measure shall be promoted by Parliament to form a narrow gauge link from Oxford to the line of the Birmingham and Gloucester Railway." The subject which he now brought before the House was one of very great importance, and which had created a very National Uniformity of Gauge.-By several hon. Members, from various places, against the Abolition of existing Vicar and Parishioners of Boldre, in the County of South-great degree of interest in the country for Religious Tests in the Universities of Scotland. - From ampton, against the Union of the Sees of Saint Asaph and Bangor, but providing for the Immediate Appointment of a Bishop to the Newly Erected See of Manchester.-By Mr. O'Connell, from Irish Residents in England, against the Protection of Life Ireland) Bill.-By several hon. Members, from various places, against the Rating of Tenements Bill. RAILWAYS-THE BROAD AND NARROW GAUGE. SIR G. CLERK rose, pursuant to notice, to move adoption of the recommendations contained in the Minute of the Board of Trade of the 6th of June, 1846, on Report of Commissioners for Inquiring into the Gauge of Railways, as follows: some time past. It was the question of the hon. Member for Stockport, agreed to an Address to Her Majesty for the appoint"1. That no line of railway shall hereafter be ment of a Commission to inquire what formed on any other than the four feet eight and a half inch gauge, excepting lines to the south of measures could be taken to ensure unithe existing line from London to Bristol, and ex-formity of gauge, and secure the public cepting small branches of a few miles in length, in immediate connexion with the Great Western and South Western Railways; but that no such line, as above excepted, shall be sanctioned by Parliament, unless a special Report shall have been made by the Committee on the Bill, setting forth the reasons which have led the Committee to advise that such line should be formed on any other than the four feet eight and a half inch gauge. 2. That, unless by the consent of the Legislature, it shall not be permitted to the directors of any railway company to alter the gauge of such railway. "3. That, in order to complete the general chain of narrow gauge communication from the north of England to the southern coasts, and to The from the inconveniences which had been his duty to ask the House practically to that that expense could be thrown upon agree in the conclusions to which the the public. Nor even could they be called Commission had come. He believed, in on to adopt the modified measure of laying the first place, that no difference of opin- down a narrow gauge by the side of their ion existed as to the great inconvenience broad one. Next came the case of those which a want of uniformity of gauge in all railways which had received the sanction the railroads throughout Great Britain oc- of Parliament on the broad gauge princicasioned, or that wherever a break of ple, and which were in a course of congauge occurred, there an interruption of struction. First in importance of these the communication took place; and the ef- was the South Devon Railway, a considerfect was to detract from that convenience able part of which was constructed, and which the public derived from that rapid the whole was in rapid progress. This and cheap communication they now had by line, it appeared, was substantially an exmeans of railroads. But, while admitting tension of the Great Western; and if an all these things, there were other consider- alteration of the gauge was required on ations which required to be borne in mind. that line, the effect would but be to introWhen it was remembered that the Legis- duce a new break of gauge at Exeter, or lature had sanctioned more than one width at whatever other point that railway might of railways, and that a vast amount of ca-join the Great Western. The same reapital had been expended on these different sons had induced the Commissioners and gauges, it would be a matter of very great the Board of Trade to give a preference to difficulty, almost of impossibility, to re- the line through South Wales that was in quire, at the present moment, that either connexion with the Great Western Railparty should alter their gauge. The Com-way; because, although it was true that missioners felt that very strongly. They hereafter there might be very extensive stated, that they felt it would be impossible traffic between South and North Wales, to call on parties so situated, to make, at their and the manufacturing districts of Engown expense, an alteration which it was land, yet it had been thought important to calculated would cost at least 1,000,000l. secure a line from London to Pembroke, sterling. Nor were they prepared, on the and Fishguard on one gauge, so as to seother hand, to recommend that so large a cure an uniform communication without incharge as this should be thrown on the terruption with our naval establishment at public. As, then, it did not seem pos- Pembroke. It was, therefore, thought sible to bring all railways to the uniform better that the South Wales line and its standard of width, the next thing was to branches should be on the broad gauge, as consider how far the inconveniences attend- sanctioned by the Act of Parliament. But ing a want of uniformity could be miti- there were two other lines to which the gated, or brought within the smallest li- sanction of Parliament had been obtained mits. Various mechanical contrivances last Session. Those to which he had alwere submitted to the Commission; but, ready referred, ran in an easterly and wesalthough they admitted their great inge-terly direction. But one of the two to nuity, they were not prepared to say that which he now referred, passed considerably any of them were calculated altogether to to the northward of the Great Western remove the evils attending a break of main line. In the Act for the Oxford and gauge. The question was, therefore, nar- Rugby Railway, a clause had been introrowed to the consideration of what mea-duced, authorizing the Board of Trade to sures could be adopted to prevent the fur- call on the company to run a double line of ther extension of the existing inconveni-rail-one suited to the narrow gauge as ence, and to reduce it as to existing well as the wide gauge rail. railroads, and those which were in pro- rule applied to a portion (not to the whole) gress of construction, to the narrowest of the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverpossible limits. First, then, as to rail-verhampton line. This was considered roads which had been for some time constructed, and were open to the public. As he had already said, it was felt to be utterly impossible to call on the Great Western Railway Company to incur the expense of altering their gauge (involving, as it did, an alteration of the whole of their carriages and stock); or, on the other hand, The same more just and equitable than to require that the companies in question should alter their gauge. It was felt, also, that if a break of gauge must take place, it would be less inconvenient at Oxford than at Rugby. The Board of Trade were also anxious, in furtherance of the recommendations of the Commissioners, to accom plish this double line of rail on the lines in of the gauge. They thought it most desiquestion; because, after the Oxford and rable, however, that such an alteration Rugby line crossed the Great Western, if should have been made if any equitable ara narrow gauge communication were open- rangement could have been agreed upon. ed to the South Western line, a continuous There was no subject to which the noble communication on the narrow gauge would Lord the President of the Board of Trade be afforded between the manufacturing and himself (Sir G. Clerk) had given more atdistricts of England and the port of tention than to the discovery of such equiSouthampton on the one hand, and those table means; but they had been totally unother parts of the south of England where able to discover any that would not entail the narrow gauge prevailed. With respect, great injustice to the parties, or expense however, to Bills now before Parliament, to the public; and they considered that, on and any other railroads hereafter to be the whole, any great or material inconveconstructed, they were disposed to concur nience would be prevented by the modificain the recommendation of the Gauge Com- tion which he now proposed. With respect missioners, that Parliament should sanction to the two lines, as to which they proposed none but the narrow gauge of four feet that there should be double lines of rails, eight and a half inches; at the same time, he begged to say that that was not a systhat recommendation would not be adopted tem which they were prepared to recomwithout qualification, or it would extend mend generally; but he should add, that the very inconvenience which it was desired they also proposed that that arrangement to remove because all the extensions of should take effect on that part of the Birthe South Wales line lay to the south of mingham and Bristol railway which lay that line, and would have no communica- between Gloucester and Bristol. There were tion with London by the Great Western serious objections to the adoption of such a Railway, if they were obliged to construct system generally, and they were not pretheir lines on the narrow gauge, without pared to recommend it, more especially not creating a break of gauge at every point its indefinite extension in the northern where those lines touched the Great Wes-parts of England. By the proposed artern. It had been thought necessary to rangements, it was by no means intended confine permission for constructing new railways on the broad gauge to lines stretching only a few miles from the main line of the Great Western, and which were made for the purpose of opening communications with the populous towns in the neighbourhood, but which were not to form, hereafter, parts of any longer line communicating with the manufacturing districts. If, then, the House agreed with the Commissioners in their recommendation, they would be prepared to resist any attempts that might be made to extend the broad gauge to the northward of the Great Western, unless in the cases he had just mentioned. The Commissioners also were of opinion that in every case of such short branch lines from the Great Western, the Committees should report specially to the House. The Resolutions proposed by the Board of Trade, therefore, coincided with the recommendations of the Gauge Commission, except with respect to those lines south of the Great Western, which he had already specified, and those short lines to the north to which he had last referred. He had already stated the opinion of the Commission, that it was impossible to call upon the public or the Great Western Company to be at the expense of an alteration to create a prejudice against any other more general scheme for constructing a railway on the narrow gauge that should run from the north to the south-from the manufacturing districts to the port of Southampton. They thought also that there should be an unbroken gauge from Birmingham to Bristol. The place where the evil of the break of gauge was most felt was at Gloucester, because the greater portion of the traffic to Gloucester was intendcd, not for Gloucester, but for Bristol, which was the great port. These were the measures which, after the best consideration of the Report of the Gauge Commission, the Government had felt it their duty to propose. They were in accordance with the recommendations of the Gauge Commission, modified, however, in reference to the Great Western and its subordinate lines. Provision was made for an unbroken communication on the narrow gauge to Bristol, and to the south. The proposition now made could not be considered a complete remedy; but the Government had gone as far as lay in their power. It was a question whether it was desirable to ask the Great Western to alter its gauge from the broad to the narrow. The system of railroads was in its infancy. The Commis |