the colonies;] and now that he was likely to be again in a minority, might probably feel a return of the same inclination. To grant a motion for papers to be laid before one House, and refuse it to another, was such an indignity, as he hoped the House would not submit to. No argument could be offered to reconcile to common sense the rejection of the motion, except the minister would venture to say, that the Lords are above attending to the affairs of the nation; and that papers on their table may lie unnoticed. His lordship's warmth in his present novel situation, might teach

impolitic measures of ministry. If we had not endeavoured to retrench their liberty, they never could have attained-they never would have sought, independence. He took notice of the flourishing state to which America had attained in a very few years before our invasion of her liberties, and imputed that improvement to the freedom of the laws which Great Britain had given her an epitome of our own government. This was a secret which England first discovered, of rendering her go vernment in the extremities of her wide empire as compact and strong as that of other free nations had been weak and in-him to make allowance for the heat of effectual-their colonists were slaves; Britain had made hers free as herself. In support of this argument he instanced the continued wars, tumults, outrages, and weakness of our governments in the East Indies-because there is no freedom there -they are governed in Leadenhall-street. He thought it necessary, on account of the very distracted state of our affairs in that country, to give notice, that he would, on some future day, move the House to go into a committee on the affairs of the East India Company.

Colonel Barré shewed some humour upon the embarrassment of the noble lord. It was enough to make any premier not only angry, but mad, to see himself reduced to such a dilemma-either to vote that what was proper to be communicated to the Lords, was not fit for the ear of the Commons-or to intreat his friends, who have hitherto carried him through every opposition, to leave him on this occasion in an awkward minority. He wished to know with what grace his lordship could stand up in that House, and say; "the House of Lords, and, through them, all the nation shall know these things; but wisdom and sound policy compel me to keep them a secret from the House of Commons." If the noble lord was of that sentiment, he advised him to carry his patriotism still further, and impeach those ministers, who, contrary to wisdom and sound policy, had dared to betray the King's secrets in the House of Lords. If his lordship would take this step, the colonel was ready to join him, and recommended him for further support to a member then sitting near him (the Solicitor General) who, when he used to divide with minorities, expressed a fondness for impeachments, [alluding to his promised impeachment of lord Hillsborough, for his official conduct, as secretary of state for

those gentlemen, who, glowing with a generous fire, with truth and reason on their sides, are often unfortunately in a minority. The minister deserved from them a similar indulgence, when he accidentally found himself in a minority-a cabinet minority! He concluded with congratulating his lordship on his present happy situ ation.

The Solicitor General spoke against the indefinite latitude of the motion. He contended, that the expressions used in the debate of "granting or refusing" information, did not apply to administration, but to the House granting or refusing the propositions which might come from any of its members individually; therefore the words carried no insult to the House; neither was it any indignity to the members, that information should be refused to one House which had been granted to another: if the House desired it, it could not be refused. The question then was, whether the House should judge it proper to grant or refuse what was desired by some of its members. Gentlemen, who thought it a slight on that House to contest the motion an instant after it was carried in another place, should recollect, that whilst they seemed to support their dignity, they were absolutely trampling upon it; and he wondered any gentleman would venture to say, in that House" the House of Lords have determined to do this, therefore we must do it also."

Mr. Fox observed, that the only argument which had been offered against his motion, was now overturned by the vote of the Lords-the danger of betraying secrets. Those secrets were laid open by the resolution of the upper House; it was therefore no longer an argument to be refuted. He would not recede from the literal extent of the motion. instructions to our commissioners, which

The

matter a little too far, but you must know I have written a book upon the efficacy of this practice, therefore, though every patient we have should die by it, we must continue the bleeding for the credit of my book."-He asked the noble lord, who had often held Mr. Washington and his army very cheap, what idea he entertained of their courage and abilities since he read the accounts arrived that very day?

the noble lord wanted to conceal, were a multuous-bleed them! If they are attackprincipal object to him. He was told of ed with aspirit of insurrection-bleed them! a pending negociation; it had already been If their fever should rise into rebellion— pending for two years, and if it were to bleed them, cries this state-physician! continue for twenty more, the same reason more blood! more blood! still more blood! would hold good till then, against an en- When Dr. Sangrado had persevered in a quiry into the reasons why it had not similar practice of bleeding his patients,succeeded. As yet no visible good effect killing by the very means which he adopthad been experienced from granting the ed as a cure-his man took the liberty to instructions, except the income of 100l. remonstrate upon the necessity of relaxa week to each of the commissioners. The ing in a practice to which thousands of noble lord said, he had mentioned that their patients had fallen sacrifices, and those instructions had been moved for be- which was beginning to bring their names fore, and refused for the reason now ad- into disrepute. The doctor answered, vanced. It was not right to disclose them" I believe we have, indeed, carried the at that time. Is that, then, never to be granted, which has been once refused? Is the glorious right of being ignorant of public affairs never to be given up? Are we to tell our constituents, we are not fit to be trusted with the knowledge of public transactions-that they are only to be communicated to the House of Lords? I may be told, said he, we are contending for a very trifling matter, and that when all the steps taken towards a pacification are laid before us, they will amount to nothing: their effect will, of course, be nothing. Yet, I contend, that those two nothings will amount to something. You know, Mr. Speaker, that in your profession there is a form of returning a writ nihil; yet, Sir, you well know, that a return of two nihils amounts to a scire facias, which is a powerful something. Now, the something that would be produced by the two nihils which may be returned to us upon the present enquiry, will be a conviction to the nation, as well as to this House, of the incapacity or absolute disinclination in administration to put an end to the distractions with which this empire is torn; and enable us to apply an effectual remedy to those disorders, before the folly, madness, or wickedness of ministers shall have brought us to a state of irretrievable ruin. By shewing us the causes why past negociations have failed, it will point out a mode of proceeding, which may be free from those difficulties that have caused our past miscarriages. Convinced, perhaps, of the inefficacy of violent remedies, we may learn, though late, to prescribe lenitives. For the two years that a certain noble lord (G. Germain) has presided over American affairs, the most violent, scalping, tomahawk measures have been pursued:-bleeding has been his only prescription. If a people deprived of their ancient rights are grown tu

He said, a few days ago he dropped a suspicion of some division in administration, conceived from the circumstance of reading the King's Speech at the house of a certain noble lord on the day before it was delivered in parliament. The premier then contradicted him, and talked largely of their unanimity; but, now, his words were verified, from the different sentiment of ministers in the upper and lower House: and hence he was warranted, he thought, in drawing this conclusion-that he, whose sentiments seemed most reasonable, was the most inconsistent in his conduct. The noble lord at the head of the Treasury always professed a disposition for peace; yet would not give any proofs that he had taken a single step towards obtaining it: but the minister in another House had ever declared, that it was his opinion nothing ought to be done by us towards a pacification; he, therefore, shewed no objection to produce papers, which, in testimony of his consistency, would shew that nothing had been done. The hon. gentleman concluded with a suggestion to those members who talked sometimes of being independent in their principles, though they constantly supported administration;-telling them, if they did not on this occasion stand up for the dignity of the House, they could never after wipe away the imputation of being mere puppets to the minister, without one principle of reason, pride, or honour.

well as from the conviction of many other | given them the very occasion, and have matters which my mind possesses, but they not inserted themselves in the busiwhich the present is not the proper timeness? If you were at this moment in treaty to explain them in, I now take upon me to assert directly, and in terms, that your sovereignty over America is abolished and gone for ever. I could say the same of your Navigation Act; but I will not enter upon that subject, particularly on this occasion. The House seems unwilling to be told this. I will only repeat what I said on a like occasion, and upon a like temper of the House-if the House is not disposed to believe this, if the House is unwilling to hear it, they will remember that they have been told it; that they have been forewarned of it; and I repeat as a truth in actual event, the sovereignty of this country over America is abolished and gone for ever; the Navigation Act is annihilated.

Of what use, then, are these papers, commissions, instructions, or any other papers formed under an act of parliament, which supposes that sovereignty to exist? of what use or power is any act of parliament respecting that country? of what import are our debates on this subject? It may be matter of amusement for different sides of the House, to continue endless and fruitless disputes, and abuse one another on this subject; but it is of no import to the Americans; it is of no real import to the point of business in this pressing crisis. Until you shall be convinced that you are no longer sovereigns over America, but that the United States are an independent, sovereign people-until you are prepared to treat with them as such; it is of no consequence at all, what schemes or plans of conciliation this side the House, or that, may adopt. I have at this time told you the fact, which I have just now declared, in order that ye may no longer amuse and abuse yourselves with impracticable ideas. And as of the sovereignty, so I say of the Navigation Act. You must no longer expect to reason, or act, as though that still existed, or would be any longer permitted to have effect. The Americans have repealed it, and it is annihilated with the powers of Europe. Those persons who hear me, may remember, that at the beginning of this business, I told them, that the House of Bourbon only wanted an occasion to dispute the ground of our Act of Navigation, and that they would insert them selves in this business (if they had no other views) to this very point. We have

with America on that point, it is not in her power to grant you terms consonant to that Act; they could meet you only on such terms as are not contrary to, and incongruous with, their engagements with France. Desirous as they were of a commercial treaty with Spain, "they could not propose any terms to his Catholic majesty, but such as were not inconsistent with their engagements with France, or disagreeable to his most Christian majesty." In the very same predicament must they meet you whenever they come to treat with you. To speak precisely, they have not as yet any actual, definitive treaty with France, but the two powers are under stipulations and convention, in which they perfectly understand each other. All the treaty that this country can ever expect with America, is fœderal, and that, probably, only commercial. In such treaty, perhaps, you may obtain favourable terms; but exclusive terms of trade you must never more expect. They are determined to maintain their independence at all events. The Dutch, in their distress, hawked about the offer of the sovereignty of their country. They offered it to the duke of Anjou; they offered it to Henry the 3rd of France; they offered it to Eli zabeth of England; but the Americans will never offer that of their country to any power on earth. They have a quite different measure in reserve; which perhaps I may on some future occasion explain. They are determined at all events to be independent; and they will be so. All, then, that remains for us, if we meant to adopt what is really practicable, is to take such ground as is actually left to us. Let us appoint a committee to take into consideration, and revise all our laws respecting the government, revenues, and trade of America, and of our commerce in Europe. And let us, on such revision, adapt our laws to our actual, not our ima ginary state. I was once called upon by a noble lord, who is, I am sure, as uniform in his wishes for peace, as he is in his spirit for conducting the war, to propose such a committee two or three years ago. I wish it had then been come into. I will now, in my turn, call upon that noble lord. This, in my opinion, is the only thing we have left to do, or can do. As to the papers called for, they are of no more consequence than so much waste

paper. Nothing can have been done, no- | any other terms but being acknowledged thing ever will be done in that line; so I care not whether the House grants the motion or not.