deprecated a war with France; but that our present situation was more ruinous to us than a declared war could be; that at prefent our commerce was plundered unprotected; but that if war was declared, we fhould feek the means of protection. M. X. said, he hoped we fhould not form a connection with Britain; and we answered, that we hoped fo too; that we had all been engaged in our revolution war, and felt its injuries; that it had made the deepest impreffion on us; but that if France fhould attack us, we must seek the best means of felf defence. M. X. again returned to the fubject of money: Said he, gentlemen, you do not fpeak to the point; it is money: it is expected that you will offer money. We faid that we had spoken to that point very explicitly: we had given an answer. No, faid he, you have not: what is your answer? We replied; it is no; no; not a fix-pence. He again called our attention to the dangers which threatened our country, and asked, if it would not be prudent, though we might not make a loan to the nation, to interest an influential friend in our favor. He faid we ought to confider what men we had to treat with; that they difregarded the juftice of our claims, and the reafoning with which we might support them; that they difregarded their own colonies; and confidered themselves as perfectly invulnerable with refpect to us; that we could only acquire an interest among them by a judicious application of money; and it was for us to confider, whether the fituation of cur country did not require that these means fhould be reforted to. We obferved, that the conduct of the French government was fuch as to leave us much reafon to fear, that fhould we give the money, it would effect no good purpose, and would not produce a juft mode of thinking with refpect to us. Proof of this must first be given us. He faid, that when we employed a lawyer, we gave him a fee, without knowing whether the caufe could be gained or not; but it was neceffary to have one, and we paid for his fervices, whether those services were fuccefsful or not: fo in the present state of things, the money must be advanced for the good offices the individuals were to render, whatever might be the effect of thofe good offices. We told him there was no parallel in the cases; that a lawyer, not being to render the judgment, could not command fuccefs; he could only endeavour to obtain it; and confequently, we could only pay him for his endeavours: but the Directory could decide on the iffue of our negociation. It had only to order, that no more American veffels fhould be feized, and to direct thofe, now in cuftody to be restored, and there could be no oppofition to the order. He faid, that all the members of the Di rectory were not difpofed to receive our money that Merlin, for inftance, was paid from another quarter, and would touch no part of the douceur which was to come from us. We replied, that we had understood, that Merlin was paid by the owners of the privateers; and he nodded an affent to the fact. He proceeded to press this fubject with vaft perfeverance. He told us that we paid money to obtain peace with the Algerines, and with the Indians; and that it was doing no more to pay France for peace. To this it was answered, that when our government commenced a treaty with either Algiers or the Indian tribes, it was understood that money was to form the bafis of the treaty, and was its esfential article; that the whole nation knew it, and was prepared to expect it as a thing of course; but that in treating with France, our government had fuppofed, that a propofition, fuch as he spoke of, would, if made by us, give mortal offence. He afked if our government did not know, that nothing was to be obtained here without money? We replied, that our government had not even fufpected fuch a ttate of things. He appeared furprifed at it, and faid, there was not an American in Paris who could not have given that information. We told him, that the letters of our Minister had indicated a very contrary temper in the government of France; and had reprefented it as acting entirely upon principle, and as feeling a very pure and difinterested affection for America. He looked somewhat furprised; and faid briskly to general Pinckney: well, fir, you have been a long time in France and in Holland; what do you think of it? General Pinckney an/wered, that he considered M. X. and i M. Y. as men of truth, and of confequence he could have but one opinion on the subject. He stated, that Hamburgh, and other states of Europe, were obliged to buy a peace; and that it would be equally for our intereft to do fo. Once more he spoke of the danger of a breach with France, and of her power, which nothing could refift. We told him that it would be in vain for us to deny her power, or the folicitude we felt to avoid a conteft with it; that no nation estimated her power more highly than America, or wifhed more to be on amicable terms with her; but that one object was ftill dearer to us than the friendfhip of France, which was our national independence: that America had taken a neutral station: fhe had a right to take it: no nation had a right to force us out of it: that to lend a fum of money to a belligerent power, abounding in every thing requifite for war but money, was to relinquish our neutrality, and take part in the war: to lend this money, under the lafh and coercion of France, was to relinquish the government of ourfelves, and to fubmit to a foreign government impofed upon us by force: that we would make at least one manly ftruggle before we thus furrendered our national independence: that our cafe was different from that of one of the minor nations of Europe; they were unable to maintain their independence, and did not expect to do fo: America was a great, and, fo far as concerned her felf-defence, a powerful nation: she was able to maintain her independence; and muft deferve to lose it, if the permitted it to be wrefted from her that France and Britain had been at war for near fifty years of the last hundred, and might probably be at war for fifty years of the century to come; that America had no motives which could induce her to involve herself in thofe wars; and that if she now preferved her neutrality and her independence, it was moft probable that he would not in future be afraid, as fhe had been for four years paft but it the now furrendered her rights of felf-government to France, or permitted them to be torn from her, he could not expect to recover them, or to remain neutral in any future war. He faid that France had lent us money during our revolution war, and only required that we fhould now exhibit the fame friendship for her. We answered, that the cafes were very different; that America folicited a loan from France, and left her at liberty to grant or refufe it; but that France demanded it from America, and left us no choice on the subject. We also told him there was another difference in the cafes; that the money was lent by France for great national and French objects; it was lent to maim a rival and an enemy whom the hated that the money, if lent by America, would not be for any American objects, but to enable France to extend ftill further her conquefts. The converfation continued for nearly two hours; and the public and private advance of money was preffed and repreffed in a variety of forms. At length M. X. faid that he did not blame us; that our determination was certainly proper, if we could keep it but he fhow ed decidedly his opinion to be that we could not keep it. He faid that he would communicate, as nearly as he could, our converfation to the Minifter, or to M. Y. to be given by him to the Minifter; we are not certain which. We then feparated. On the 22d of October, M. Z. a French Gentleman of refpectable character, informed Mr. Gerry, that M. Talleyrand, Minifter of foreign relations, who profeffed to be well difpofed towards the United States, had expected to have seen the American Minifters frequently in their private capacities; and to have conferred with them individually on the objects of their miffion; and had authorized M. Z. to make this communication to Mr. Gerry. The latter fent for his colleagues; and a conference was held with M. Z. on the subject; in which General Pinckney and General Marfhall expreffed their opinions, that not being acquainted with M. Talleyrand, they could not, with propriety, call on him; but, that according to the cuftom of France, he might expect this of Mr. Gerry from a previous acquaintance in America. This Mr. Gerry reluctantly complied with on the 23d. and with M. Z. called on M. Talleyrand, who, not being then at his office, appointed the 28th for the interview. After the first introduction, M. Talleyrand began the conference. He faid, that the Directory had paffed an arrête, which he offered for perufal, in which they had demanded of the envoys an explanation of fome parts, and a reparation for others, of the Prefident's fpeech to Congress, of the 16th of May laft: he was fenfible, he faid, that difficulties would exift on the part of the envoys relative to this demand; but that by their offering money, he thought he could prevent the effect of the arrête. M. Z. at the request of Mr. Gerry, having stated that the envoys have no fuch powers; M. Talleyrand replied, they can in fuch cafe take a power on themselves; and propofed that they fhould make a loan. Mr. Gerry then addreffed M. Talleyrand diftinctly in English, which he faid he understood, and stated, that the uneafinefs of the Diectory refulting from the Prefident's speech, was a subject unconnected with the objects of the miffion that M. Barras, in his fpeech to Mr. Munroe, on his recall, had expreffed himself in a manner difpleafing to the government and citizens of the United States; that the President, as the envoys conceived, had made fuch obfervations on M. Barras' fpeech as were neceffary to vindicate the honor of the United States; that this was not confidered by our government as a fubject of difpute between the two nations; that having no inftructions refpecting it, we could not make any explanations or reparations relating to it; and that M. Talleyrand himfelf was fufficiently acquainted with the conftitution of the United States to be convinced of the truth of these observations. Mr. Gerry further stated, that the powers of the envoys, as they conceived, were adequate to the difcuffion ard adjustment of all points of real difference between the two nations; that they could alter and amend the treaty; or, if neceffary, form a new one; that the United States were anxiously defirous of removing all caufes of complaint between themselves and France, and of renewing their former friendship and intercourse, on terms which should be mutually honorable and beneficial to the two nations; but not on any other terms; that as to a loan, we had no powers whatever to make one that : if we were to attempt it, we should deceive himself and the Directory likewife, which, as men of honor, we could not do; but that we could fend one of our number for inftructions on this propofition, if deemed expedient, provided that the other objects of the negociation could be difcuffed and adjusted; that as he had expreffed a defire to confer with the envoys individually, it was the wifh of Mr. Gerry that fuch a conference fhould take place, and their opinions thus be afcertained, which he conceived corresponded with his own in the particulars mentioned. M. Talleyrand, in anfwer, faid, he should be glad to confer with the other envoys individually, but that this matter about the money must be fettled directly, without fending to America; that he would not com, municate the arrête for a week; and that if we could adjust the difficulty refpecting the fpeech, an application would neverthelefs go to the United States for a loan. A courier arriving at this moment from Italy, and M. Talleyrand appearing impatient to read the letters, Mr. Gerry took leave of him immediately. He followed to the door, and defired. M. Z. to repeat to Mr. Gerry, what he, M. Talleyrand, had faid to him. Mr. Gerry then returned to his quarters with M. Z. took down the particulars of this interview, as before ftated, fent for Generals Pinckney and Marshall, and read it to them in the prefence of M. Z. who confirmed it. Generals Pinckney and Marshall then desired M. Z. to inform M. Talleyrand that they had nothing to add to this conference, and did not wish that the arrête might be delayed on their account. October 29th. M. X. again called on us. He faid, M. Talleyrand was extremely anxious to be of fervice to us, and had requested that one more effort fhould be made to induce us to enable him to be fo. A great deal of the fame converfation which had paffed at our former interviews was repeated. The power and the haughtiness of France wasagain difplayed to us. We were told that the deftruction of England was inevitable; and that the wealth and arts of that nation would naturally pafs over to America, if that event should find us in peace. To this obfervation we replied, that France would probably forbid America to receive them, in like manner as she had forbid Switzerland to permit the refidence in its country of a British minifter. We told him alfo, that we were fenfible of the value of peace, and therefore fought, it unremittingly, but that it was real peace we fought for, and real peace only which could be defirable. The fum of his propofition was, that if we would pay, by way of fees, (that was his expreffion) the fum of money demanded for private ufe, the Directory would not receive us; but would permit us to remain in Paris as we now were; and we fhould be received by M. Talleyrand, until one of us could go to America and confult our government on the subject of the loan. Thefe were the circumftances, he faid, under which the minister of Portugal had treated. We asked him if, in the mean time, the Directory would order the American property not yet paffed into the hands of the privateerfmen, to be reftored? He faid explicitly, that they would not. We asked him, whether they would fufpend further depredations on our commerce? He faid they would not: but M. Talleyrand obferved, that on this fubject we could not fuftain much additional injury, because the winter feafon was approaching, when few additional captures could be made. We told him that France had taken violently from America more than fifteen millions of dollars, and treated us in every respect as enemies, in return for the friendship we had manifected for her; that we had come to endeavour to restore harmony to the two nations, and to obtain compenfation for the injuries our countrymen had fuftained; and that in lieu of this compenfation, we were told, that if we would pay twelve hundred thousand livres, we might be permitted to remain in Paris; which would only give us the benefit of feeing the plays and operas of Paris for the winter, that we might have time to ask from our country to exhauft her refources for France, whofe depredations would be continued. He again ftated, that by this procedure we should fufpend a war; and that perhaps in five or fix months power might change hands. We told him that what we wished to fee in France was a temper fincerely friendly to the United States, and really difpofed to do us juftice; that if we could perceive this, we might not fo much regard a little money, fuch as he stated to be ufual, although we should hazard ourselves by giving it; but that we faw only evidences of the most extreme hofti. lity toward us: war was made upon us fo far as France could make it in the prevent state of things; and it was not even propofed, that on receiving our money this war fhould ceafe; we had no reason to believe that a poffible benefit could refult from it; and we defired him to say that we would not give a fhilling, unlefs American property unjustly captured was previously restored, and further hoftilities fufpended; and that unless this was done, we did not conceive that we could even confult our government concerning a loan; that if the Directory would receive us and commence negociations, and any thing occurred which rendered a confultation of the government neceffary, one of us would return to America for that purpose. He faid that without this money we fhould be obliged to quit Paris; and that we ought to confider the confequences: the property of the Americans would be confifcated, and their veffels in port embargoed. We told him that unless there was a hope of a real reconciliation, these evils could not be prevented by us; and the little delay we might obtain would only increase them; that our million had induced many of our countrymen to trust their veffels into the ports of France, and that if we remained in Paris, that very circumftance would increase the number; and confequently the injury which our countrymen would fuftain, if France could permit herself so to violate her own engagements and the laws of nations. He expreffed a wish, that M. Y. fhould fee us once more. We told him that a vifit from M. Y. as a private gentleman, would always be agreeable to us; but if he came only with the expectation that we should stipulate advances of money, without previously establishing a folid and permanent reconciliation, he might fave himtelf the trouble of the application, because it was a fubject we had confidered maturely, and on which we were inmoveable. He parted with us, faying, if that was the cafe, it would `not be worth while for M. Y. to come. In the evening, while Gen. Pinckney and Gen. Marthall were abfent, M. Y, and M. X. called, and were invited by Mr. Gerry to breakfast with us the next morning. October 30th. Immediately after breakfast the subject was refumed. M. Y. fpoke without interruption for near an hour, He faid that he was defirous of making a laft effort to ferve us, by propofing fomething which might accommodate the differences between the two nations; that what he was |