ting this provision in the constitution be a notice to the parties, that they must keep within certain limits in making contracts with this State?

Mr. HARRIS. It might be sufficient if he had possession of the State archives to see what had been already contracted.

Mr. CLARKE, of Johnson. He can have them if he desires. Now if this article is to go into

the constitution it should be made effective. It is charged, and avowed upon this floor, that the present article of the constitution has been violated, that a larger amount of indebtedness has

been incurred than the constitution authorizes. Then what is the effect of such an article in our constitution? Do our people save a single dollar by it, or are they protected from the burden of indebtedness? Not at all. Then if gentle- | men are so anxious to protect the State from these burdens, let them do that which will accomplish their object, and not merely throw a tub to the whale, not merely put in something that is of no account, except to enable them to cry out to the "dear people"-see what we have done to protect you.

Mr. WILSON. Suppose this amendment is adopted, and the legislature goes on and creates a debt that exceeds the limits prescribed in the constitution, and orders an appropriation to pay the excess; where will the responsibility rest? Mr. CLARKE, of Johnson. I will tell the gentleman where the responsibility will rest; it will fall upon the proper parties, in this way: If the legislature does pass a law increasing the amount of State indebtedness beyond the limits prescribed in the constitution, the State officers, if they are honest in the discharge of their duties, will refuse to pay the appropriation thus made. And then the party contracted with can sue out his writ of mandamus to compel the officer to audit his account, and the question will be brought before the courts, and tested practically as it should be.

Mr. WILSON. Another question; suppose this amendment is not adopted, and we do not provide in the constitution, in so many words, that all such debts shall be void, but merely provide that the State shall not contract debts to an amount exceeding two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Then suppose the legislature does contract a debt of three hundred thousand dollars. Would not the effect be the same? Will the amendment now proposed make this article any stronger than it would be without that amendment?

Mr. CLARKE, of Johnson. I will answer the gentleman by referring him to the facts as they are said to exist under our present constitution. It is argued here that the amount of State indebtedness now exceeds the limitation prescribed in the present constitution; yet no officer has acted so as to bring the matter before the courts for their decision. But if you put this amendment in the constitution, and make the officer a particeps criminis in the act, he will hesitate before he acts as he has now done.

[February 6th.

Mr. WILSON. But is there any difference in the legal effect of the two propositions?

Mr. CLARKE, of Johnson. I think there is a difference in this way: This amendment will be a notice to the world, and especially to the officers of the State, who are disposed to be honest, and to live up to the constitution, and will lead them to refuse to pay, and thus force the other party to sue out a writ of mandamus

to test the matter.

State shall not contract a debt exceeding two Mr. WILSON. Is not the provision, that the hundred thousand dollars a notice to all the

world?

the officers of the State will be likely to argue Mr. CLARKE, of Johnson. Certainly but from the past, and say, no complaint was made before, and we will pay this time.

Mr. HALL. I do not believe this amendment

is at all necessary, and I would not say one word upon the subject, if we could leave the constitution in the same condition in which it now stands. The gentleman from Benton, (Mr. Traer,) and others here, most confidently assert, that the present constitution has been violated. Now I really do not know whether it has been or not. I would be unwilling to make such an assertion until I knew all the facts involved, and the manner in which the liability, that now exists, has been created.

As to this amendment, if it is to have the effect claimed for it by the gentleman from Johnson, (Mr. Clarke,) I shall most certainly oppose it. We have been in the habit of making our appropriations two years in advance, and there bas never been a time when there was money enough in the treasury to meet all those appropriations. The legislature passes a law which creates & liability against the State, though the time for the payment of the money has not arrived. There never can be a liability against the State, unless as authorized by the legislature of the State, acting under the constitution. Whenever they pass a law authorizing the creation of a debt against the State, the constitution goes along with that law, and you have to decide whether there is a conflict between the law and the constitution, and the constitution must be the controlling and governing law.

But here is a provision proposed, which gentlemen say will have this effect: if the legislature make appropriations at any time, or make contracts by which the liability to be created against the State, will cause the total amount of the indebtedness of the State to exceed the sum of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars here provided for, then the whole contract is void. Or to illustrate the matter in another way: if the State, speaking through its legislature, should come to the conclusion that it would be a proper policy and a wise measure to build two or three or more of the charitable institutions, which this State so much needs, and which would prove so beneficial to the State, and they enter into a contract by which they agree that buildings to cost half a million of dollars shall be erected, there will be a contract exceeding

WILSON-MARVIN-GILLASPY-PALMER.

the amount bere prescribed, which the State in it compulsory upon the State to repudiate? It the progress of these improvements will be call-strikes me that such is the drift of the argument, ed upon to meet. This amendment, it seems to to prevent the people from paying any debt me, will prevent the State from doing any such that may be contracted beyond the limits here thing as that. There may perhaps be a debt of prescribed. two hundred and fifty thousand dollars already against the State, funded and paying interest. And you will be prevented from anticipating the resources of this State, and creating liabilities for the future.

Mr. GILLASPY. I certainly supposed that this question was settled yesterday, in Committee of the Whole. Not being possessed of the legal ability of some other gentlemen upon this floor, I was, for one, satisfied to depend upon It is this tying down the hands of a great and the opinions of those gentlemen, as to the legal growing State, like the State of Iowa, and put- and proper construction of the report of the ting shackles upon what would otherwise be- committee as amended, and of the present concome a giant, that I consider as totally unneces-stitution, and also as to what was a funded sary. I do not apprehend any danger of any debt.

very mischievous violation of the constitution. But I only rose to perform a duty to the honThere may be a technical violation, an acciden-orable and distinguished gentleman from Bental, an unwitting violation of it, but not a bona fide violation. And there has not been-I assert for the honor of my State, that there cannot have been-a wilful violation of the constitution. If the legislature has passed the boundary assigned them by the constitution, it has been accidentally done, as bodies and individuals are all liable to do. But I am not afraid to trust our leg-guments which have been brought forward here islature with this matter as it now stands. I do not want this cramping section to go into the constitution, and I hope the convention will not adopt it. This article is well enough as it stands, and sufficiently binding; and the attention of the world is sufficiently called to it.

SOLOMON-CLARKE-HARRIS-HALL-GILLAS PY-ELLS.

of Henry, Clarke of Johnson, Ells, Emerson, this motion, but I do so at the earnest request Gower, Palmer, Peters, Price, Scott, Winchester, and Young.

Friday]

HARRIS-GILLASPY-ELLS-CLARKE

[February 6th,

ing laws, as for any other purpose. I confess convention is going to draw from their pockets. I am not prepared to vote upon the provis-Hence, I am in favor of progressing as rapidly ions of this report. I am of opinion now that I as possible; and it does seem to me, if gentlemen shall support the main features of it, but there would pay more attention to the business of this are some features here to which I object, and I convention, and let outside matters alone, they want to have time to examine further and see if would be better prepared to act when subjects I am right in my opinions upon this subject. I come up here for their consideration, and not get hope, therefore, that farther time will be given up here and ask for the postponement of matfor this question. ters that have been before committees where they have made speeches upon them and have exaLiined them.

It may be that the gentleman from Wapello [Mr. Gillaspy] has business to transact at home of more importance to him than the work before this Convention. If so, I have no doubt he can be excused from attending here. I think we can get along without him. [Laughter.] But I think we should so do our work here that the people of the State may be satisfied with it. What is our private business in comparison with the framing the fundamental law of this State? Let us do that well, and not complain of the length of time it may require. Mr. HARRIS. I must say with my friend from Wapello (Mr. Gillaspy) that my cogitations and calculations in regard to this report have been completely upset by what I learned concerning it this morning. I find that the printed copy laid upon my table does not contain as many sections as the one read by the Secretary. But still I am not disposed to be quite so sharp in my strictures as that gentleman seems disposed to be. The mistake may have been unintentional upon the part of the printer. I do not know how that may be.

I made a request the other day to have a report postponed, and stated that I was entirely unprepared to consider it at that time. I urged the postponement as trongly as I could, but my arguments did not seem to have much effect upon gentlemen here, for my request was not granted. and I suppose gentlemen can prepare themselves as well to consider this report now, as I could the other day to consider the one then before us. Besides, if we go into Committee of the Whole, there will be a great deal of discussion, and all the points will be considered in every view in which they can be presented.

Mr. GILLASPY. I will say to my friend from Davenport [Mr. Ells] that I have business at home of far more importance to me than the three dollars a day that I get here. However, I will say that I came here to do the business of the State, and to discharge what I conceived to be my duty, and to endeavor to meet the expectations of the people of the State, and particularly those who sent me here, And I undertake to say that, so far as I know the expectations of the people all over the State, it was the universal opinion that this Covention would get through their work here at the farthest, within three weeks from the time it assembled here.

I do not expect to have to ask the convention to excuse me in order that I may go home and attend to my business there. I represent a constituency that have a deep interest in the action of this convention; and not only in that, but also as to the money that the delay of this

Mr. ELLS. I wish to know a little concerning the opinions of those who sent me here, in regard to this report. I intend to return to Davenport to-morrow, if I have an opportunity. I have sent over one of these reports already, and I want to know what my people think about it. It is a little stronger than I expected it would be, and I want to consult with them about it. I want time to consider this subject before I am called upon to act here in regard to it.

Mr. CLARKE, of Henry. I will say in expla nation of the fact of this report being brought in here in this imperfect state, that it was made out in a great hurry, a portion of it being written out here while the business of the convention was going on. It was handed to the printer with directions that a proof should be furnished, and also that it should be printed only on one side of the sheet. That was not done, from some cause, and there were also found some typographical and other errors in the printed copies brought up and distributed. It was shown to the printer, and he at once offered to set up the type and reprint the report, without any extra charge to the State. The gentleman from Wapello [Mr. Gillaspy] can therefore relieve his mind from any anxiety in this particular.

In regard to his other remark advising me to leave to other gentlemen, who desire this postponement, the responsibility of the motion, I will say that I do not consider that there is any great responsibility involved in the matter.There are certain gentlemen here who, no doubt, can discharge their duty to their consciences, and to the people of their respective districts without much trouble or preparation. And they are those who have nothing to do but to come in here and vote against amending the constitution in any particular. They are one idea men, and that one idea is to stick fast to the old landmarks. Such gentlemen do not need much time or preparation, so long as they have a copy of the old constitution before them. All they have to do is to turn to any particular article in it, and find out whether the one reported by the committee is exactly like that one, with every "t" crossed, and every "i" dotted, as in the old constitution. If it is not, they can then vote against it. But other gentlemen here are not so happily situated. Some of us represent constituencies who desire and expect that changes will be made; and we desire to give some examination and deliberation to all propositions made here for such changes in the present constitution. We desire to be prepared to defend and advoca te them, if they are worthy; and if they

are not, to oppose them and prevent their adop

tion.

[February 6th

It is due to ourselves and to the people at large, and not merely to those gentlemen who ask for this postponement, that we should allow every member here full time to prepare himself to act understandingly upon every report that comes before us. I have too much confidence in gentlemen to refuse this request. If they come to me aid say they are not prepared to consider any particular subject, and want further time for deliberation, I will not charge that they are influenced by any ulterior design, that is not proper, much less will I insinuate that they are only desirous to increase the time for which they will receive their three dollars a day! I be-commodated myself. (Laughter.) Now if genlieve we are all as anxious to go home as the gentleman from Wapello [Mr. Gillaspy]; but we will not get home any sooner by attempting to drive these matters through in a hurry. More obstacles will be thrown in the way by members who have not examined these matters, and matured their opinions upon them, than if we allow them time to get ready, and come in here and vote without discussion.

and we had been conning them over, and preparing ourselves to act upon what we thought was the subject to be considered, they should have made the corrections, and furnished us with perfect copies before this time. And again, I suppose it is in the power of every member here to speak an hour or two hours upon every question that comes up; that takes up much more time than is at all necessary. And I would suggest, that perhaps it would be better for members to give merely a synopsis of what they have in their minds, and not tell us all they know every time they speak.

Now in regard to the reference the gentleman from Wapello (Mr. Gillaspy,) has made to outside matters, which gentlemen may attend to here. I do not think it is courteous, or kind, for us to attempt to follow every member about the city, and see how he uses up his time, whether attending lectures, or doing anything else, when he is not required to be present upon committees, or in convention. It is an espionage which is simply unmanly and contemptible. I think all such references as these are improper, and out of place, and I trust they will cease. If gentlemen say they are not prepared to act in regard to any matter before us, no charge that they have been misspending their time should be made here, and go upon the record. Let every man stand by what he says himself. If he says he is not prepared, let that be the end of it.

The motion I have submitted, is simply a motion to make this report the subject for consideration on a particular day. If the gentleman from Wapello is prepared to consider it now, then he need not devote any more attention to it, until it again comes up, but attend to something else. If any gentleman is not prepared, then he can prepare himself in the meantime, and perhaps then be able to vote without discussion, or discuss it with benefit to others.

Mr. MARVIN. I should be decidedly opposed to postponing this report, had all the members been furnished with correctly printed copies of it. I do think that some of us have reason to complain that we have been furnished with imperfect copies of this report, while others have had corrected copies. Indeed, I have been unable to obtain several reports that have been made. They were not on my desk, and when I enquired for them, none were to be had. It seems to me, that when the committee discovered that this printed report was full of errors, and had been laid upon our tables in that shape,

Mr. HALL. I am one of the most accommodating men in the world, provided I can be ac

tlemen wish to check this work of constitution making, I am willing to adjourn for two or three months, and go home, and then come back again. But I am unwilling to lose my time for gentlemen to undergo a schooling, during our deliberations, and thus extend our session. Let us adjourn, and go home for one, two, or four weeks. I do not care how long, even if it be six months, if it is necessary. But while we are here, I do not like to be continually postponing all these matters upon which we are to act. I hope this convention will proceed regularly with its business. If we progress slowly, let us at least do something. I hope this report will be made the special order for this afternoon, and let us go on with it as well as we can. Its consideration will take up time enough at the best.

Mr. CLARKE, of Johnson. I am willing to divide the responsibility of asking the postponement of this subject, with the gentleman from Henry, [Mr. Clarke,] and the gentleman from Scott, [Mr. Ells]. While I am as anxious that this Convention should adjourn at the earliest possible period, and perhaps I am making as many and as great sacrifices in attending here, as any member upon this floor, I am free to confess that I prefer to sacrifice my own interests to the object of discharging my duty here prop erly. And I am also free to confess that I am not now prepared to act upon this subject, for the simple reason, that we are kept here from early morning till late at night, and when I leave here, I am too exhausted and worn out to examine these reports. It is very easy for gentlemen upon the other side to act upon this matter, and press subjects to a consideration, for whatever may be the shape of the Constitution we send out they can leave this hall and say to the people, whether justly or not, that they are not responsible for it.

Now, I do not misstate the fact, when I say that this question of corporations had more to do with the calling of this Convention, than any other question that may come before us. And the majority here should consider well upon it, for while gentlemen upon the other side are pressing us to its consideration and saying they are prepared to act, they have openly avowed, from time to time, their opposition to all banks. And their organ in this city, comes out here with