in the past, white men, who are unfamiliar with the problems of the islands and too often moved by assumptions of the superiority of the white race. Plenty of Virgin Islanders are capable of holding the higher positions under the governor and lieutenant governor.

3. As the act now reads, the final legislative authority over the combined councils is a veto by the President of the United States. The final legislative authority over laws passed by the separate municipal councils is the Congress of the United States. There seems to us no valid reason for creating two veto powers at Washington. The ultimate veto power outside the councils should be the Congress of the United States, not the President, who would ordinarily sustain the vetos of his appointee, the governor.

4. We understand that a revised form of the bill submitted by the Department of the Interior has eliminated the resident commissioner at Washington, who, like the commissioners of Puerto Rico and the Philippines, would sit in the House of Representatives with the right to debate but without the right to vote. It is highly desirable that such a commissioner should sit in the House, particularly if congressional power to veto all island legislation is included.

We trust that the committee will report the bill with these amendments and that it may be enacted in the present session. The Virgin Islands have been far too long deprived of an established form of government through which they may develop their own institutions, and at the same time maintain a definite and satisfactory relationship to the Federal Government.

We are, on behalf of the American Civil Liberties Union,

Very sincerely yours,

Is Governor Cramer here?

ARTHUR GARFIELD HAYS, General Counsel.
ROGER GOLDWIN, Director.

HARRY F. WARD, Chairman.

Governor CRAMER. Yes, sir. Mr. UNDERHILL. Mr. Chairman, before we start in with the testimony, I would like to make one or two observations. The first is that, following a policy which we have recently adopted in the House and Senate, instead of considering an organic act for the Virgin Islands, we ought to consider independence for the Virgin Islands and grant them the privilege of conducting their own affairs in their own way. The second is that personally I do not believe we ought to carry on these hearings without the presence of the governor, Mr. Pearson, who I understand is in the hospital.

The third is that these islands were acquired by our Government for defensive purposes. I believe that was the purpose when they were acquired and I believe that purpose still maintains. If we continue in the possession of them, we ought to continue along that particular line, and an organic act therefore is not at all necessary. A further extension of suffrage there would interfere, probably, and we would have differences of opinion arising all the time.

I do not believe that this organic act as I have read it through hurriedly is going to make for any better relations.

Lastly, this is so late in the session that our efforts will be unproductive of results and that it is a waste of time of this committee and of the Congress and a waste of expense to which the committee may be put in holding these hearings, to continue along this line.

The CHAIRMAN. I have here a letter from the chairman of the Colonial Council of St. Croix, which states in effect that Joseph Alexander and Arnold M. Golden, have been appointed representatives of the Colonial Council of St. Croix and should be here for the day fixed for the hearings. Are Messrs. Alexander and Golden present?

Mr. ALEXANDER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I submit to the chairman of the House committee that in view of the fact that a delegation has at considerable expense come from the Virgin Islands to present their views in regard to the organic act, we should proceed with the hearings, notwithstanding the objection that has been made.

Mr. UNDERHILL. Mr. Chairman, I do not wish to be discourteous to this delegation that has come up here, but during my service on this committee we have had several delegations who have appeared before us, and it has been quite a drain on their treasuries down there to send them here. Of course, I have been pleased to see them at all times. I suppose this practice will continue indefinitely and these gentlemen or others in their place will be sent here from time to time to present their views.

So far as I am concerned, I am getting through with my service and will have no voice here in the future. But I do not believe that this committee or Congress is going to pass an act which takes from the United States powers which are now vested in it and puts them into the hands of the people down there.

The CHAIRMAN. May I suggest that it apparently takes a long time to pass an organic act for any one of our colonial possessions. This is probably as likely to be a step in the right direction as any that we may take. A very carefully prepared draft has come from the Secretary of the Interior, which will be introduced as a bill and printed by to-morrow.

I think in view of the fact that the Governor of the Virgin Islands has pressed the matter and asked us to consider it, and has presented a bill, and in view of the fact that the lieutenant governor is present and the delegates are present, we ought to proceed with the hearings. Mr. UNDERHILL. What does the chairman think about turning them loose?

The CHAIRMAN. I should be unwilling to turn them loose.

Mr. HARE. Regardless of our individual opinions as to the propriety or wisdom of the legislation, I think, in view of the fact that this bill was introduced early in the session, and the chairman of the Committee on Territories and Insular Affairs of the Senate has been arranging for this hearing for some time, with the knowledge of the chairman of the Insular Affairs Committee of the House and in view of the fact that the representatives from the islands are here—that is, the lieutenant governor and the delegates from the council-I think it would be very unfortunate if we did not hear them at this time. and take their testimiony.

Mr. UNDERHILL. I shall not insist. I have said what I had in mind. Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. Chairman, had the point been raised before these representatives came here, I would agree with Mr. Underhill. But I think, as these representatives are here, this committee should have the hearings. Personally, I doubt if this legislation will pass this Congress. It will be up for consideration in future sessions and then these hearings will be available.

The CHAIRMAN. The reason for the late date of the hearings is that we have tried to serve the convenience of those who had to come from the Virgin Islands. The hearings otherwise could have been held in December.

Mr. WILLIAMS. Of course, while the governor is not here, he can get a copy of these hearings and read them.

Mr. JENKINS. Mr. Chairman, I agree with the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Williams. I should be very happy to stay here and hear these gentlemen, if I could, but I have another important committee meeting that I must attend. I am very sorry that I have to go and can not stay. I should like to say that I do not quite agree with Mr. Underhill.

Of course, I know he is more or less facetious about it. Before I go I want to say that personally I feel it is a fine thing that these men can come up from the Virgin Islands and appear before the Congress of the United States and present their views and have their day in court.

With that, Mr. Chairman, I ask to be excused.

Mr. HARE. Mr. Chairman, of course, we all regret that Governor Pearson can not be present. But since he states in his letter, which the chairman has read, that the lieutenant governor, Mr. Cramer, has given considerable attention to the preparation of this bill, even if the governor were present he would probably suggest that Mr. Cramer present the views of the proponents of this legislation.

The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen, I have been handed a letter from the executive secretary of the American Virgin Islands Civic and Industrial Association, 239 West 136 Street, New York City, signed by the executive secretary and sworn to before one Williams, a notary public of New York County. The letter reads as follows:

JANUARY 17, 1933. TO THE JOINT COMMITTEE OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE AND HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ON TERRITORIES AND INSULAR AFFAIRS,

Washington, D. C.

GENTLEMEN: The Virgin Islands Civic and Industrial Association, a nonpartisan organization, composed of natives resident on the mainland cooperating with the Federal Government of the United States in the rehabilitation program of the islands, begs most respectfully that its president, Mr. Ashley L. Totten (duly elected for this specific purpose), be permitted to present oral arguments in support of the following provisions:

1. For the immediate passage of the new organic act known as bill S. 5227. 2. For the continuity of the program started by Gov. Paul M. Pearson and the new civil administration.

3. That if found practicable and will serve to the economic well-being of the islands, the establishment of a naval base (not a naval government) be made at the island of St. Thomas.

Respectfully submitted.

ANDREW C. PEDRO, Executive Secretary.

Mr. UNDERHILL. What is meant by that last paragraph?

The CHAIRMAN. Is Mr. Totten present?

Mr. TOTTEN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. We will hear Mr. Totten in due time and then Mr. Underhill can find out what is meant by the last paragraph. Now we will hear the lieutenant governor.

STATEMENT OF HON. LAWRENCE W. CRAMER, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR VIRGIN ISLANDS OF THE UNITED STATES Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. Mr. Chairman, I do not believe that any suggestion of giving the Virgin Islands independence would be very popular down there. I believe that the islanders are rather keenly aware of the fact that their interests are definitely with the United States. I do not believe that any desire on their part for

autonomy would go to the extent of demanding it, if they had to have independence at the same time. Their lines of trade and commerce have been with the United States for many, many years. I think the controlling reason, when the matter was discussed locally of changing over from Danish sovereignty to American sovereignty, for the councils unanimously voting for a change of sovereignty, was the fact that trade relations had been chiefly between the Virgin Islands and the United States. I do not think that there is any local feeling for independence.

Now, whether or not national interests might require that Congress give independence, without consulting the local people, I do not know; I can not express an opinion about that.

I have worked on the organic act for a year and a half and have had the pleasure of working with a committee in St. Croix. During that time we did not feel that it was a matter of most vital importance; that is, in this sense, that there existed no great dangers and grave wrongs that had to be righted; instead, it was rather thought that the drafting of a permanent Government act was something that needed to be done in order to clarify some of the existing questions, especially relating to the legal arrangements of the local government. If you will look at the act of March 3, 1917, you will find that it contains what appears to be the possibility of a twofold interpretation. In section 1 of that act it is said that all military, civil and judicial powers necessary to govern the Virgin Islands shall be vested in a governor.

In section 2 of that same act, the wording is to the effect that the election provisions, the provisions relating to franchise, the electoral franchise of the Amalienborg Code, promulgated in 1906, shall be carried forward and shall continue in force and effect, and also other local laws.

Now, there is a question, at least in my mind, as to whether or not the whole of this 1906 Amalienborg Code is carried forward. If it is not, there are some very serious questions as to the source of authority of the legislative power and possibly also some question as to any limitations on the executive power.

Mr. UNDERHILL. What do you think of these limitations on the executive power provided for?

Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. Provided for here?

Mr. UNDERHILL. Yes.

Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. Personally, I feel that they are exceedingly desirable to have, because it is certainly in keeping with the American tradition and the American character.

Mr. UNDERHILL. Have there been any instances of vetoes on the part of the governor that have been particularly unjust or unfair? Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. I should say not. Some have been made the basis of question, but nothing could be done, of course, locally to override the veto.

Mr. UNDERHILL. Of course, there is always a difference of opinion. Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. Oh, yes.

Mr. UNDERHILL. But, has there been any real trouble which has arisen from it, any real injustices?

Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. Well, I should say not.

Mr. UNDERHILL. In other words, you are sending the governor down there and then limiting his power?

Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. In not a very real sense. Of course, he has the veto power. If he makes a serious mistake under this new law, if it passes-if the governor were to veto a bill and made a serious mistake, that could then be made the basis of further action by the President.

As the matter stands now, practically the same situation prevails, because under the Executive order by which the governor has the veto power, every bill that the governor approves or vetoes must be sent to the President and the President may override the action of the governor.

As it

In the present bill, the bills that the governor approves will thereupon become operative. But if the governor disapproves a bill, if passed over his veto, such a bill would then be sent to the President and the President might reverse the action of the governor. is in the present bill I believe that the governor would be given somewhat more power, or at least one less chance of being reversed. One of the provisions of the Amalienborg Code now in effect is the following, section 18, which relates to the franchise and the right to vote. It gives the restrictions and the qualifications, and the final paragraph of that section is

Within 10 years from the entering into operation of this law, the provisions concerning franchise contained in this section are to be revised.

That law was passed in 1906. In 1917, March 3, Congress carried over that provision. It has been in effect now for 26 years without change.

Mr. UNDERHILL. That is the property qualification and the 25-year limitation?

Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. Yes, sir. It may be argued that the people there are not competent to vote and that it is better not to give them a power that possibly they may abuse. There is a variety of practice with respect to the suffrage in communities in the same geographic area. In Puerto Rico there are no property qualifications. There is universal suffrage.

In all of the British islands in the Caribbean, property qualifications exist, and in addition they have a very highly restricted legislative assembly, which has very few powers. The elected members of it have few powers, if any. The governor practically controls the legislature and can decide exactly what he wants to have done; and the legislature has to agree, because he appoints and controls a majority of the members.

In the French islands of Martinique and Guadaloupe there is manhood suffrage and no property restrictions. But, their ballot is so organized that persons can take home the ballot and fill it out and then take it back to the election board on election day. Their ballot then is registered. In other words, they may, if they wish, have their friends in to help them make out their ballot.

It appears that no serious difficulties have been experienced in Puerto Rico. I do not know that there has been any serious difficulty in the application of universal suffrage there.

Mr. UNDERHILL. It has resulted in the islands going almost overwhelmingly socialistic in the last election, has it not?

Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. Possibly. I am not sufficiently familiar with the politics there to be able to express an opinion.