Mr. GOLDEN. In the new act his appointment is asked for by the President, and that is a good thing because it will keep the judiciary independent of the executive in that respect.

Mr. JENKINS. You have a further specific right of appeal from that decision to the United States court in the mainland?

Mr. GOLDEN. Yes, that is located at Philadelphia.

Mr. JENKINS. It does seem to me under our old theory of government from the beginning of time that a magistrate was always close to the people.

Mr. GOLDEN. Yes.

Mr. JENKINS. And it does seem to me there might be some justification for having two magistrates at not less than $150 a month. Mr. GOLDEN. Yes.

Mr. JENKINS. And his jurisdiction is limited and you have ready access to the higher court who is no doubt a lawyer and a competent

man.

Mr. GOLDEN. Yes.

Mr. JENKINS. And so far as your legal business on that island is concerned, the less you have the better off you will be anyway.. Mr. GOLDEN. That is true. Continuing on the same subject, section 28 of S. 5457, starts this way:

That there shall be established in the Virgin Islands of the United States 1 district court with 2 divisions, 1 constituted by the municipality of St. Croix, and 1 constituted by the municipality of St. Thomas and St. John, as defined by existing local law.

The council of St. Croix amended the former bill, S. 5227, this way: The first part of section 28-"that there shall be established," down to the words "St. Croix" where there is a comma, the council would like to insert there, "or subdivisions," and the rest of the paragraph continues as it is.

To explain that, your bill would establish a district court with two divisions, the municipality of St. Croix, and the municipality of St. Thomas and St. John. That is right. That exists at present. But we have subdivisions in the island of St. Croix. We are the largest of the islands, so we have a little more housekeeping than the others, and if there is no amendment, with subdivisions, it is likely to create a hardship on the part of one section of that island. The judge would then have the right to select any part of the island to hold this subdivision, where at present the division is there, the subdivision of the island of St. Croix, which is called the division of Christiansted and Frederiksted. It is creating no hardship, no additional expense, and we would like Congress to have that in our bill when considering it. Mr. WILLIAMS. That is the way at the present time?

Mr. GOLDEN. Yes.

Mr. JENKINS. Who is the judge there now?

Mr. GOLDEN. P. E. Edrington, jr.

Mr. WILLIAMS. Appointed by the governor?

Mr. GOLDEN. Yes; and this bill provides that he shall be appointed in future by the President, which we think is very good, as I said before, because it keeps them from being influenced.

Mr. WILLIAMS. Under the system down there does the governor appoint all these judges?

Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. Yes.

Mr. WILLIAMS. How many judges down there?

Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. Three; the district court judge, and the district court judge is appointed by the governor in accordance with the local law for a period of two years. When the transfer of administration from naval to civil administration was made by Executive order, all appointees who received their salary from the Federal Treasury were made subject to appointment by the Secretary of the Interior, so that this Executive order of the President has the effect of altering the local law which gives the governor authority to appoint the district court judge. Now, I think there is a question as to the effect of the President's order on local law but there has been no quarrel.

Mr. WILLIAMS. That does not apply to the judge who receives his pay from the island governor, like the police judge?

Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. No; the police judge is appointed by the governor.

Mr. WILLIAMS. His pay comes out of what fund?

Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. The local treasury.

Mr. JENKINS. You have one judge for St. Croix and St. Thomas and St. John.

Lieutenat Governor CRAMER. That is the district judge.

Mr. JENKINS. You do not have different governors at St. Croix and St. John?

Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. No; the same governor exercises jurisdiction over all the islands.

Mr. JENKINS. I thought you had a governor of St. Croix and one at St. John.

Mr. GOLDEN. I should like before concluding, Mr. Chairman, to bring to the committee's attention a question which I touched on yesterday, the appointing of a resident commissioner from the Virgin Islands in the bill proposed by the Department of the Interior. Now, this we consider very necessary and it is provided for in S. 5457. Mr. WILLIAMS. What section?

Mr. GOLDEN. It is not in there. It is omitted. That is what I am calling the committee's attention to.

Mr. WILLIAMS. What is the number of the section in S. 5227? Mr. GOLDEN. Appointment of resident commissioner, section 15; page 12, section 15, headed "Legislative department," in S. 5227. We would like to have provided in this new bill a section establishing that office because at present we have not got any way of getting in touch with the Congress of the United States or with the honorable committees except by sending special messengers here, which, as remarked by one of the Congressmen yesterday, is a matter of expense for both parties concerned and inconvenience in a great many instances to the individuals in question.

The CHAIRMAN. That is true also of the island of Guam, and American Samoa, and of the Canal Zone.

Mr. GOLDEN. Yes, and therefore we ask to be classed similarly. The CHAIRMAN. But they have none.

Mr. GOLDEN. Alaska and Hawaii and Puerto Rico have.

Mr. WILLIAMS. But look at the difference in the number of people. Mr. GOLDEN. Yes.

Mrs. JENKINS. Would you object to having the same delegate represent you as represents Puerto Rico?

Mr. GOLDEN. In general principles, yes, but in a particular case, no. In general principles, yes, surely, because we are trying to preserve our identity and not lose it, and we certainly would lose it if that is done. Besides that, section 2 of the colonial law under which we are at present operating, makes this provision:

In all other matters relating to the colonies, the respective colonial council shall, before any law containing provisions specially relating to the West India Islands be given, be afforded opportunity of giving its opinion in the matter, unless particular reasons render an exception necessary.

Mr. WILLIAMS. Do you not think you would get more sympathy from Congress by not having a delegate here than if you had one? Mr. GOLDEN. What I wanted to point out is this, that if you have a provision in here whereby any legislation that you anticipate putting into this island, you send it down to us first for an expression of opinion by the colonial council, and returning it to you we will say maybe there is no necessity or we would like this change.

Mr. WILLIAMS. I would not object to that.

Mr. GOLDEN. There will be no reason then, but in the absence of no provision in your organic act which would allow us to express an opinion, it would require a resident commissioner: Therefore we should have either, because we know that the power rests with you gentlemen, and we feel it is our right to tell you what we want, and if you gentlemen then in the face of our experience do something contrary to what we know we want, if a success or your failure, we will know where to place the blame, and for that reason we feel it will be safeguarded by a provision of that kind, but the resident commissioner, is preferable.

Mr. WILLIAMS. Since I have served on this committee, I have never seen the committee or any member of the committee consider and pass laws affecting the Virgin Islands without giving the people of the Virgin Islands every opportunity on earth to be heard and a sympathetic hearing.

Mr. JENKINS. In fact, the Territories and possessions of the United States get a whole lot better deal out of the Government than the States do.

Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes.

Mr. GOLDEN. I will express on behalf of my colleague and myself our appreciation for the courtesies extended to us and the nice manner in which you have received this delegation from the Virgin Islands. We are highly pleased. We have found the committee very sympathetic and we have no doubt that Congress will also act in that way, but it is for just that very reason that we are trying to stress the point, that in order not to take up the valuable time of the committee more than necessary and to a full extent in all directions, that I will offer to insert in the new organic act a clause which will allow all legislation proposed by Congress to come to the Virgin Islands to be passed on by the colonial council, as provided at present in our colonial law. This does not mean that we expect to have all the say, but it means we will be telling you our case and that it will be the people themselves who decide it.

The CHAIRMAN. It has been the practice of the Senate committee ever since I have been a member of it never to pass any legislation for the Virgin Islands without giving all opponents opportunity to be heard and send delegations, and I am sure that there is no disposi

tion on the part of either body in the Capitol to force legislation on any one of our possessions or outlying islands without giving them full chance to be heard. I do feel, however, that it would be an unnecessary expense for the people of the United States to support a delegate here in Congress when the amount of legislation which must be considered for the Virgin Islands is so very, very small, and after you get the organic act through which I hope will be before very long, there will be even less reason to have a resident delegate. My experience on both of the committees is that whenever any one from the Virgin Islands, a representative, desires to be heard, it has always been made possible to have a hearing.

Mr. GOLDEN. Yes. Another reason I was stressing it was from that point. We would not have, for example, the necessity to have our governor up here or lieutenant governor up here urging legislation. The CHAIRMAN. That occurs in the case of those Territories I have spoken of, the Territory of Alaska, the Territory of Hawaii, that are integral parts of the United States. Their governors also come here every year for a certain period and consult with the Secretary of the Interior and take counsel with the members of the committees concerned.

Mr. GOLDEN. Yes. I meant it would not be necessary for them if we had a Resident Commissioner up here to be here so frequently. They might have to visit here from time to time.

There is another matter that the colonial council would like you. to consider in drafting your organic act for the islands, and that is some provision should be made prohibiting government employees from sitting in the legislature. That is really objectionable even if they are qualified electors.

Mr. WILLIAMS. Have you any down there like that?

Mr. GOLDEN. We have.

The CHAIRMAN. It has been the custom of the governors from time to time to appoint to the legislature people that they liked and who were members of their cabinet.

Mr. WILLIAMSs. What is the population of the Virgin Islands? Mr. GOLDEN. From twenty to twenty-seven thousand in total; the island of St. Croix a little over 11,000; about 12,000 now. Mr. WILLIAMS. What was the last census?

Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. Twenty-two thousand. The 1917 census was 26,000.

The CHAIRMAN. The shrinkage is due largely to immigration from the island to New York.

Mr. GOLDEN. Yes. I thank you very much, Senator, and honorable gentlemen for listening to us, and we hope that you will try to give us a bill that we will remember and thank you for. We want to

urge also, and it is our mission, if possible, to have this measure passed through the present session of Congress. If you let it wait until the next, most likely it will be lost in the rush of new legislation and things of that kind. We also want to say that one of the reasons that we came this time was that we feel we had more friends in the present Congress that knew our affairs, and the new incoming Congress will take some time to understand our affairs.

I thank you, gentlemen.

The CHAIRMAN. We thank you very much for your very fine presentation of your criticism in regard to the various sections of the

bill, and if on further study anything else occurs to you, or amendments that you would like to make after the hearings are closed, we will be very glad to have you put them in writing and they can then be inserted in the printed hearings later.

Mr. GOLDEN. Thank you.

Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. There has been a decided drop in population from 1917 to 1930, the latest census. Recently I worked out later figures for the island of St. Croix. During the last two years we have had an actual increase of population there from excess of immigration over emigration of 1,107.

The CHAIRMAN. During what period?

Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. The last two years.
The CHAIRMAN. Where did they come from?

Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. They came, the greatest number, from St. Thomas, the next greatest number from Puerto Rico, and then a few came from British islands, and a few from the United States.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the reason for immigration from St. Thomas to St. Croix?

Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. St. Croix is in a little bit better condition economically. During the last two years we have had a certain amount of success with our cane cultivation, due to the weather, and there has been rather less work in St. Thomas.

Mr. WILLIAMS. There is no cane production in St. Thomas. Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. No. The tendency seems to be for the excess of the St. Thomas population and the Puerto Rico population to go to St. Croix, at least temporarily. That is the only 2-year period that I have found so far since 1830-it is the only one in that period-in which there has been an increase of population instead of a decrease.

The CHAIRMAN. During this period that you mentioned the Bethlehem factory has been closed?

Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. Yes; but another small sugar factory has been operating last year, the so-called central factory, outside of Christiansted. Last year we had a sugar crop of 33,000 bags, about 4,300 tons, as compared with the previous year of about 1,300 tons. This year we will have at least 5,000 tons.

The CHAIRMAN. That would account for the increase of population? Lieutenant Governor CRAMER. Yes.

STATEMENT OF JOSEPH ALEXANDER, CHAIRMAN OF THE MUNICIPAL COMMITTEE

Mr. ALEXANDER. I wish to make a few remarks in connection with the organization of the municipal committee, and I intend to present to the honorable gentlemen copies of the colonial law for their guidance. I wish to insure attention to paragraph 60 of the colonial law, and paragraph 63. Paragraph 60 gives the council the authority that no disbursements must be made from the colonial treasury, without the sanction of the colonial council, and as paragraph 63 creates your municipal committee, and which says:

Shall exercise supervision over the management of the economical affairs of the municipality and take part in same.