Dempfter, Sir William Cunynghame, Mr. Burke, Sir It was oppofed upon the ground of the impropriety of refufing to His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, who was to fupport the dignity of the Crown, the power over the privy purse, amounting to 60,000l. per annum, out of which, by the claufe, was to be taken 16,000l. and given to Her Majefty, for purposes unknown to Parliament, and the remainder to be improperly locked up from the Prince, and to be left, in cafe of His Majefty's indifpofition continuing, to the difpofition of Parliament. It was fupported, upon the ground of continuing His Majefty's benefactions, and upon the impropriety of feizing the moment of His Majefty's indifpofition, to ftrip him of his property. The 16,000l. which had been faid to be given to Her Majefty, for purposes unknown to Parliament, was explained in the following manner: 12,000l. was given to pay an established lift of charities, fettled by His Majefty; and the remaining 4000l. was to enable Her Majefty to continue His Majefty's benefactions to those perfons who were not on the lift, but who, fhe knew, received charity of His Majefty to that amount. worth. Sir William Molefworth remarked, that he did not mean to Sir Wm. contend against the fum propofed to be taken from the mo- Molefney of His Majefty's privy purse, which was appropriated to the charities mentioned; but, not thinking it proper that the remainder fhould be kept from the Prince, he moved, as an amendment, to add the words, "and that the remain"der fhall be paid over to the Treafurer of the privy purse "of the Regent." Upon this amendment the Committee divided, Ayes, 101; Noes, 156. Majority 55 against the amendment. The Solicitor General propofed an amendment, which was agreed to, and the claufe was carried without any farther objection. The feventeenth claufe was next read, vefting in Her Majefty the care of the King's perfon, and the government of the household. Mr. Powys objected to that part of the claufe which gave Mr: Her Majefty power over the household; and he condemned Powys it as a divifion of power with the executive authority, which was unjuftifiable and inadmiffible. The power given to Her Majefty over the household, and the claufe reftraining the Regent from creating Peers, paved the way for the introduction of a dangerous control over the two Houfes, and the VOL. XXV. 3 G country, MrChan country, which was put into irrefponfible hands. Mr. Powys concluded, by moving an amendment to the preamble of the claufe, leaving it open for future revifion. Mr. Chancellor Pitt agreed to the amendment, and faid, cellor Pitt that in the courfe of the whole bufinefs before the House, one of the principles which he had always invariably maintained was, that the whole of the bill ought conftantly to be kept open, and fubject to the future revifion and alteration of Parliament. Sir Peter The question on the amendment being put and agreed to, it was inferted in the clause. Sir Peter Burrell condemned the latter part of the claufe, the patronage given by which, he faid, was fo loosely expreffed, that it was impoffible to afcertain the amount of it, and of which he conceived the Houfe ought to be acquainted previously to their adopting the claufe. Mr. Mr. Chancellor Pitt begged leave to affure the honourable Chancel Baronet, that the whole amount of the falaries of the houselor Pitt. hold, from the great officers at the head of the different departments, down to the moft menial fervants in any of the palaces, or the ftables, was no more than 100,000l. per annum out of which fum there was no more than about 30,000 l. received for falaries by Members of the two Houfes of Parliament; there were feven in the House of Commons, whofe falaries amounted to about 4000l. and eighteen Lords in the other Houfe, whofe falaries amounted to about 26,000l. Such influence was not, in his opinion, likely hereafter to preclude any revifion, or neceffary alteration in the fyftem propofed for the prefent emergency. Sir Peter Sir Peter Burrell returned his thanks to the right honourBurrell. able gentleman, for his explicit explanation. Lord North. Lord North obferved that, in fpite of every argument which had been advanced in fupport of fuch a doctrine, he could not yet perceive that it was a felf-evident propofition, that all the officers of the household must be made fubject to the control and nomination of the Committee of the King. He denied that it was a felf-evident propofition; ner could he imagine that the Queen ought to have any power or control over any officers of the household, excepting only fuch of those officers as were, from their fituation in the houfehold, obliged to attend upon the King's perfon. The reft of the officers who could be of no fervice to the King's perfon, ought not, in his opinion, to be under the control of the Committee of the King, but ought to be annexed to the King's reprefentative; to the perfon who actually exercifed the Royal authority. Why could not the right honourable gentlemen try to feparate, the household? To feparate the Regal office from the Royal prerogative feemed a difficult difficult point; but, to feparate the grooms, the equerries, and the pages, from the Lord Chamberlain, the Lord Steward, and the Master of the Horfe, had been deemed almost impracticable, and yet it was of the utmost confequence. He afked, which of the two evils was the greatest, and which was of the moft confequence, and established the worst precedent? The feparating of the household, or the withholding from the Regent the fource of that general influence which the Conftitution had deemed neceffary to be given to. the Crown and to the executive power of the country: that general influence without which the Crown could not exercife its duties. In all general influence there was neceffarily a degree of parliamentary and political influence; but, he faw no harm in this, and yet this influence was treated as of very little confequence. The right honourable gentleman had acknowledged that eighteen Peers of Parliament belonged to the household. Did gentlemen confider that eighteen Peers voting on one fide, made the difference of thirty-fix on a divifion; and was that nothing? He did not fay that a bad ufe would be made of that influence; but, the withholding it from the perfon exercifing the Royal authority, was contrary to the principles of the Conftitution. It had been argued, that it would prove a comfort to a King to fee his household about him; yet, for his part, he could fee no comfort which could accrue to His Majefty, during his illness, by having this power of his representative vested in other hands. Who would contend that His Majefty himself, when he recovered, would not revolt at fuch a principle? He had not heard what fingle Royal duty was not expected from the Regent ; and therefore, if the Regent was to continue charged with the whole duties of a King, why was he to be curtailed in his prerogatives? The confequences of introducing fuch a new principle into the Conftitution, might, when His Majefty fhould be restored, disturb the peace of his reign. The Conftitution annexed all the power of the Royal prerogatives to the Crown, becaufe all this power was neceffary. If it were not neceffary, it was too much, and if too much, it was pernicious, and ought to be abolished. Might not, at a future period, that queftion be agitated in respect to the power of the Crown? Might they not reafon thus, and fay, what is gained from the Crown is gained to the People? No, His Majefty would fay," the Conftitution gave me all the pre"rogatives, and my Government cannot ftand without them." They might then anfwer, as the right honourable gentleman anfwered now," Let your Majefty's Minifters act rightly, and they will not want this patronage." With regard to the perfons holding the great offices in the household at prefent, was it thought that their lofs would be irreparable? 3G 2 Would Mr. Would it be fo great a public misfortune for them to be changed, that they were to have their places fecured to them? He did not mean to speak difrefpectfully of the prefent officers of the household; but, he was confident that there might be found among the young nobility, many qualified to fill every one of their places. What were the qualifica tions to make an officer of the Court ?-Good manners, paliteness, breeding, and fome degree of perfonal dignity. To fill an office about the Court, it was not neceffary to serve an apprenticeship to it, as to an art or a craft. An officer of the Court might be faid, generally fpeaking, to be like a poet, nafcitur non fit. His fituation might proceed oftener from his birth than his education. There were, therefore, many perfons capable of it; and, as to the change of the household giving His Majefty pain, when he recovered, if it fhould give him a moment's uneafinefs, it could be remedied immediately. No mifchief could poffibly arise from it. Lord North at length, addreffing the Chairman by name, faid, "You, Mr. Watson, as a man who have been engaged in "mercantile and commercial concerns, have heard, no doubt, "often of a maxim of trade, which I heard of early in life; "it was this: Take care of the pence, and the pounds will "take care of themfelves." The meaning, his Lordship added, he conceived was, take care of fmall things, and they will enable you to fecure the greater objects. But, it was faid, it would fecure the fervices of the prefent Minifters. That was, undoubtedly, a great object, but even gold might be bought too dear; and if a great rule of Government was to be facrificed to any Minifters, he fhould be of opinion that Parliament and the Public paid a very dear price for fuch an acquifition. Mr. Grojvenor observed that the greater part of the noble Grofvenor Lord's argument went to oppofing the whole of the claufe. The noble Lord had faid, that all the powers of the Crown were neceffary; he admitted that they were fo, but the Committee ought to remember, that they were not going to make a King, but a Regent. Mr. Grofvenor declared, that he very deliberately confidered the whole of the fyftem contained in the bill, and was convinced that the entire conduct of the right honourable gentleman, and every part of his fyftem, had been wife, diftinct, difcreet, prudent, and loyal. Had there remained in his mind any doubt upon either, that doubt would have been effectually removed by a fpeech which he had heard from a right honourable gentleman, who filled the chair, and who had, on one of the days, in the Committee on the State of the Nation, delivered his fenti ments from the Treafury bench. Sounder argument and better reasoning he had never heard from any Member of that that House. Every fentence which the right honourable gentleman had delivered, tended to strengthen and confirm him in the opinion, that the steps taken by the two Houses in the arduous conjuncture occafioned by His Majesty's unfortunate illness, were legal and conftitutional. . General Norton contended that the Lord Chamberlain, General Lord Steward, and the Master of the Horfe, with the Lords Norton. of the Bedchamber, were the political fervant's of the Crown, and not the inere domeftics of the King. The General ftated the nature of their duties, which chiefly confifted in making a part of the pageantry that furrounded the King on public occafions. He thought thofe great officers, under the prefent unfortunate circumftances of His Majesty, contributed neither to the fervice nor to the comfort of the Sovereign, because they could have nothing to do near him. If it could be proved that they could, in any fhape, add to his ease, or afford His Majefty the fmalleft degree of comfort, he was fure that the Public would chearfully incur the expence of a new household for the Regent. Mr. Wilbraham said that justly had it been remarked by a Mr. Wil right honourable gentleman on the preceding Friday, that braham, the whole Houfe of Brunswick were excluded from the prefent bill. It was a most unaccountable exclufion. He declared that he faw no reason why Her Majefty fhould be the fole committee of the King's perfon. He thought that the Prince ought to have been joint committee with Her Majefty, and that would have removed much of the objection to which the claufe was liable. But, if it were deemed improper that the Prince of Wales fhould have any fhare in the cuftody of His Majesty's perfon, what had the Duke of York done, that he fhould not have been named jointly with Her Majefty? He afked, whether the Duke of York had given fuch proofs of his want of zeal for his father, or fuch proofs of his want of filial affection, that he deserved to be paffed by. Mr. Wilbraham alfo defired to know why the two brothers of the King, the Dukes of Gloucester and Cumberland, had been wholly unnoticed in the bill? He fpoke particularly of the Duke of Gloucefter, whom he defcribed as having withdrawn himself from the politics and pleasures of this diffipated town, and given way in feclufion and in private to the affliction with which His Royal Highnefs's mind was overwhelmed, in confequence of the melancholy of his Royal brother. Mr. Mr. Keene ftated the number of officers in the household, declaring that they amounted to nearly one hundred and Keene, fifty; that many of them had places from eight to twelve hundred a year, up to fixteen and eighteen hundred a year; that feveral had places of four and five hundred a year, and |