Senator MELCHER. I understand that NARF has represented as clients, tribes and individuals who have recently become federally recognized through the administrative process. What problems have arisen after recognition was gained for these individuals and groups? Ms. LOCKLEAR. We do represent, Senator, a group of individuals in North Carolina who have been individually recognized as being persons of one-half or more Indian blood which, under the Indian Reorganization Act, entitles them to the services that the Bureau of Indian Affairs administers. However, those individuals have run into similar problems of delay in getting themselves fully organized and able to participate in those rights, as have other tribal groups going through the petitioning process.

I think that is also relevant for other tribal groups as well. After those groups become technically recognized, they have to go through the process of getting reestablished in terms of full tribal operations. They have, generally, to get a tribal constitution approved by the Bureau of Indian Affairs. There are questions related to acquiring a land base. Both of those problems have come up specifically with the people in North Carolina.

They have been grappling with both of those problems with the Bureau of Indian Affairs for over 3 years and are not any closer to a resolution of either of those issues than they were when they first began.

I think, in its deliberations, the committee should look to those related questions as well as to the question of getting technically recognized, because that is only the first step.

Senator MELCHER. Do you have some suggestions for the committee that we could pass on or do whatever is necessary with the Bureau of Indian Affairs so that they could implement the procedures and then get to the point of addressing the problems and correcting those problems that exist?

Ms. LOCKLEAR. I think one of the specific problems that could be addressed, perhaps by regulation, is that there is no mechanism for the transfer of judisdiction, that I am aware of, from the Federal acknowledgment project to the relevant area office of the Bureau. The Bureau just simply waits for the particular petitioning group to be transferred, after it has been recognized, to its jurisdiction and from that point on, there is no mechanism for resolving issues like determining what the tribal needs are in terms of services.

There is no mechanism for getting the process of establishing and approving a tribal constitution in motion, or of formalizing a roll. To my knowledge, none of the area offices are working on those problems.

Senator MELCHER. It is just right here, but the problems are out there.

Ms. LOCKLEAR. Exactly.

Senator MELCHER. That is a good suggestion. We can perhaps do something about that.

I want to tell you, Kurt, that the committee will take a personal interest in the Kickapoo situation at Eagle Pass. We will see whether we can be helpful, quickly, I assure you.

Mr. BLUE DOG. I appreciate that.

Senator MELCHER. I agree a projection to the year 2003 is a sad state of affairs.

Mr. BLUE DOG. I think that the Kickapoos are a very exceptional situation. I am also convinced that it would be good to take a personal interest in some of the petitioning groups that are represented here. It would be good to take a personal interest in all of them.

Senator MELCHER. I think perhaps we will, but we will take them one at a time.

Thank you very much, both of you.

Our next witness is Eric Thomas, who is a member of the Narragansett Tribe of Rhode Island. He comes from Kenyon, R.I.

STATEMENT OF ERIC THOMAS, MEMBER, NARRAGANSETT TRIBE, RHODE ISLAND

Mr. THOMAS. Good morning. I am Eric Thomas/Sekatau of the Narragansett Tribe of Rhode Island, and I am here to speak on behalf of the Narragansett Tribe, which is now under active consideration by the Federal acknowledgment study project.

I feel that it is essential that you understand that we are seeking Federal recognition and that we have always been recognized as Indians and are not, as the title states, a nonrecognized Indian tribe. This creates problems in tribal politics.

In other words, when you put a petition together and your tribe does not have an understanding that it is recognition for services, then you have problems with it.

The first thing we would like to state is that this mechanism has long been needed by tribes who, up to this point, have not pursued any active form of Federal recognition.

The problem we see from putting together such a petition is that the Federal acknowledgment study project does not have enough staff for the amount of work it has to do. For example, our tribe has compiled 14 volumes of information, of almost 2,000 pages, which took a couple of years to do. It weighs about 60 pounds.

We feel that other tribes might not have the staff or resources to do this. Some type of help should be offered. For example, you might send a person from the study group to show them how to put it together, or give them some form of example of how it should be done. The time period is another problem, we feel. The initial time period, from when the petition is first sent in through the acknowledgment, followed by their sending a study group, is long. For example, we have seen three staff people so far and are still waiting to see the genealogist. We petitioned in October 1978. All that must occur before a preliminary report can be done.

At the same time, self-determination for these nonrecognized tribes is at a standstill, because everyone who finds out that the tribes are petitioning waits for a determination. Agencies which might be able to provide assistance wait and say, "We will wait until you have a determination before we give you assistance"-which might take 2 to 5 years.

Every tribe needs help and that does not help it. It is that time period which is most difficult. I think that if they had more staff, it would go better.

Senator MELCHER. I agree with you.

Do you think you have been given proper assistance? Has it been forthcoming when you have asked for it?

Mr. THOMAS. I was active in putting the regulations together for the process itself, and I did not have problems with putting the petition together. The problem was that most of the information was scattered throughout the State. Rhode Island is 40 by 45 miles in size. If it took me 3 years to put it together, someone in Texas will take a much longer time.

Senator MELCHER. Yes, of course.

What stage is the consideration of your documents in, right now, within the Bureau?

Mr. THOMAS. We have seen the historian. We have seen the anthropologist and we have seen the demographer. We are waiting to see the genealogist. Then a preliminary finding can be made.

Senator MELCHER. Do you have a projected timetable?

Mr. THOMAS. A year and a half.

Senator MELCHER. From now?

Mr. THOMAS. Right.

Senator MELCHER. I am glad to hear that you are that far along. That is encouraging.

Your suggestion would be on the problem of understaffing within the project.

Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir. It is a really good staff. Many of the tribal people, I was surprised to discover, got along with them quite well. They were good because of their own experience.

I think the workload they have is tremendous. As you get more and more groups petitioning, you get a bigger load. I think the results will end up bad if you do not increase the staff.

Senator MELCHER. You are echoing what Mr. Crawford told us earlier.

Thank you very much, Eric. We appreciate your testimony.
Mr. THOMAS. Thank you.

Senator MELCHER. Our next witness is Eddie Tullis, chairman of the Poarch Band of Creeks from Atmore, Ala.

STATEMENT OF EDDIE TULLIS, CHAIRMAN, POARCH BAND OF CREEKS, ATMORE, ALA.

Mr. TULLIS. Good morning, Senator, staff, and fellow witnesses. I would first like to request permission to provide some written material at a later date. I was not able to have it prepared this morning, but I will do it immediately if I have permission to do that.

Senator MELCHER. Yes, you will be permitted. We will keep this hearing record open for a least 3 weeks from today.1

Mr. TULLIS. Thank you.

My purpose in being here this morning is not to criticize anyone. My purpose in being here is to try to bring to the attention of this committee the fact that in Indian country, particularly among a number of groups that are non-BIA-serviced groups, we realize the important part that this committee and the Congress and Senate played in bringing about the adoption of this procedure.

1 Material not received at time of printing.

We are here to tell you that the procedure is working, but not at the pace that it should be working. We also would like to express to you our appreciation for your continuing effort. It would have been very easy for this committee, once the procedure was in effect, to ignore it and let it go away.

I will not use this committee hearing to try to justify the Federal recognition of the Poarch Band of Creeks, but I would like to relate to you some of the problems that we have had in preparing a petition that, I am sure, will relate to other groups.

The Poarch Band of Creeks are the descendants of those Creeks that were left in Alabama after the removal to Oklahoma. The State of Alabama officially and very effectively ignored those Indians that were left in Alabama, not only servicewise, but also record wise. That creates a monumental problem when you start looking to document, with government-acceptable documents, the existence of a group of people. We realize that we, by no means, are on either extreme of the groups that are out there. There are groups in the country who do not have the resources that we have. There are groups that have many more resources than we have been able to acquire. It has been a tremendous problem for us to put together a petition that will satisfy the rules and regulations that have been adopted.

We have done that. We have a petition on file now. We were only able to do it with a tremendous amount of help from a multitude of people. The Native American Rights Fund has been of tremendous help to us. Mr. Blackwell's, and the Americans for Indian Opportunity group's efforts to come into the area and offer their services in explaining and helping us understand those rules and regulations were also of tremendous benefit to us.

However, there are still a lot of groups out there that do not have the resources even to progress to the point that we have. We hope that this committee will address itself to seeing that some means are provided for those groups to have resources, either through the Native American Rights Fund, some other organization, or consultants to it, or by expanding the office of the Federal acknowledgment project.

We offer absolutely no criticism of the staff of the office as it now exists. They have been of tremendous help. They have responded greatly to each request that we have made, either for interpretation of the rules and regulations or for guidance in the position or direction that we should go in preparing our petition.

We appreciate that. We ask that this committee follow up and see that there is more help provided for that office to provide that service to other groups out there in the country who are in bad need of it. I thank you for the opportunity to be here.

Senator MELCHER. Thank you very much, Mr. Tullis, for your comments. We will look forward to receiving written testimony from you. It is encouraging to us to hear that commendation for the group that is working on the project in the BIA.

Mr. TULLIS. It is impossible without help from a number of sources. I can assure you of that.

Senator MELCHER. Thank you very much.

Mr. TULLIS. Thank you.

Senator MELCHER. Our next witness is Ken Hansen, chairman of the

Samish Tribe from Anacortas, Wash. He is accompanied by Bill Matheson, chairman of the Snohomish Tribe of Snohomish, Wash.

Mr. HANSEN. Mr. Chairman, on my immediate left is Mr. Bill Matheson, chairman of the Snohomish Tribe, who is also from Washington State. On his left is Mr. Buddie Ammeter, a tribal council member of the Snohomish Tribe.

I would like Mr. Matheson to make his statement first and then I will follow up with mine.

Senator MELCHER. Please proceed, Mr. Matheson.

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM E. MATHESON, CHAIRMAN, SNOHOMISH TRIBE, WASH., ACCOMPANIED BY KENNETH C. HANSEN, CHAIRMAN, SAMISH TRIBE, ANACORTAS, WASH.; AND ALBERT "BUDDIE" AMMETER, SNOHOMISH TRIBAL COUNCIL

Mr. MATHESON. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my name is William E. Matheson. I am the chairman of the Snohomish Tribe of Indians which is located on the west coast in Washington State.

Our ancestors were signatories of the Treaty of Point Elliott in 1855. In that treaty we ceded hundreds of thousands of acres of land. Lands that were set aside for the tribes were insufficient or not suitable to survive upon, so the majority of Snohomish people never went to the reservation. Of the nearly 5,000 Indians who were assigned to the three Point Elliott treaty reservations, no more than 350 Indians were provided allotments. Only approximately 60 Snohomish received allotted lands. The majority of my tribe never received any allotments nor were they forced to move to the reservation.

Over the past generations, our ancestors have repeatedly attempted to secure the recognition, by the United States, of the Snohomish Tribe. Even without the recognition, we have continued to exercise our treaty fishing rights, and we have received intermittent Bureau services.

We submitted a petition for recognition in 1975, but it was returned to us without action. With the publication of the new regulations, we revised our petition to provide additional information pursuant to the criteria contained in the regulations, and again submitted it in November 1979. Our petition has over 1,500 pages and 210 exhibits. We are pleased with the openness and diligence of the Federal acknowledg ment staff, and they appear to be dedicated to finding the facts and truth regarding our relationship with the United States. This we welcome.

We are not afraid of the facts or the truth, and we believe they provide the basis for our recognition.

There are, however, things that cause us concern. We fear that such a small staff will not be able to keep pace with the large volume of petitions that are coming in. Unreasonable delays in getting decisions will cause despair and disappointment for our membership, who have already waited too long. Now that the staff is organized, we believe that it should be greatly enlarged to at least twice its present size. We think that a group of that size would be manageable and not threaten the credibility of the ongoing effort.