The CHAIRMAN. Does not the Government inspection now on meat go to wholesomeness? Your inspection goes to quality.

General SHARPE. Our method goes to the whole proposition. We watch the meat carefully all of the time, from the cutting table, during the cure, precessing, and until finally packed. Even then it is again carefully inspected.

The CHAIRMAN. Does not the inspection tend to increase the price? General SHARPE. Yes; but we can not afford to send large quantities of meat to the Philippines or elsewhere and for lack of care have that meat spoil. We had better pay more for the meat than have it spoil, or of inferior quality when issued.

The CHAIRMAN. We purchase only fresh meat from Australia. We purchase the cured meat in this country.

General SHARPE. Only fresh meat is furnished from abroad. The cured and canned meats are all bought here.

Mr. KAHN. As a matter of fact they have a regular line of refrigerating steamers running from Australia to China, whereas we have no such line running between the United States and the Orient? General SHARPE. No, sir.

Mr. ANTHONY. Is the Australian meat as good as ours?

General SHARPE. It is as good, but I do not think it is any better. I think that mutton from Washington and Oregon can not be beaten. General Sharpe submitted the following:

Animals slaughtered in 1905.

[Bureau of the Census, Bulletin 83, page 16-Census of Manufactures, 1905-Slaughtering and Meat Packing, etc.]

Comparative statement showing contract prices of fresh beef per pound at posts from January 1 to June 30, 1907, and from January 1 to June 30, 1908.

Comparative statement showing contract prices of fresh beef, etc.—Continued.

Comparative statement showing contract prices of fresh beef, etc.-Continued.

Comparative statement showing contract prices of fresh beef, etc.--Continued.

STATEMENT OF GEN. WILLIAM CROZIER, CHIEF OF ORDNANCE.

The CHAIRMAN. Page 54 is the place where your items begin?
General CROZIER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Current expenses, etc., page 203 of the estimate. That item is the same as you have had for a number of years? General CROZIER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you find that too large?

General CROZIER. No, sir. That is one of the poor appropriations. You can see that it is general in its application, and it is very well explained in the language of the appropriation itself. I was tempted this year to ask for a little more money, because, owing.to the appropriation I got from Congress last year for a powder factory, the necessities of the department have increased. This powder factory, I hope, will be in operation late in the winter or early in the spring, and its erection and operation will, of course, involve the conduct of a larger establishment at its location, for part of the general expense of which this appropriation provides; but I did not well see the absolute necessity for an increase, and therefore I' am trying to get along with the appropriation as it is. I am not promising that I will not ask for an increase next year.

Mr. SLAYDEN. You are indicating that you may?

General CROZIER. Not unless I am compelled to. I will determine that by experience before I ask for it next year. I do not ask for it now.

The CHAIRMAN. "Ordnance stores, ammunition " are reduced? General CROZIER. Yes, sir. That comes about in this way: A couple of years ago I asked for $629,000, which included machines for manufacturing these stores. That estimate met a series of objections in the House and the authority to use part of the appropriation for machinery went out on a point of order, which was sustained. When the machinery went out on a point of order, the appropriation was reduced to $600,000, although I had intended only to use $5,000 for inachinery. When the item for machinery was stricken out, the appropriation should have been reduced to $624,000 instead of $600,000. I want now to be put back to the normal estimate of $624,000. The CHAIRMAN. Do you use all. of it?

General CROZIER. Yes. Although I am not asking for any more, I think I ought to make it plain what this sum of money will provide. It is for a reserve supply of ammunition. In estimating that reserve supply, I have figured on 300 rounds per gun for 600,000 guns, expecting when we reach 600,000 guns to bring up the question of going inore slowly in getting more. That would give 180,000,000 rounds as a reserve, and at the rate which I can procure them under this estimate, it will take twelve years' time. I will have 600,000 guns before that time. Unless this appropriation is increased it will take nearly twelve years before we get 300 rounds per gun for 600,000. Of course you can make the ammunition faster than you can make the guns-a good deal faster. At the present time we manufacture this ammunition only at the Government factory. That question was up at the last session of Congress, and it was decided not to purchase any of the ammunition from private manufacturers.

The CHAIRMAN. You have the facilities for manufacturing? General CROZIER. We have the facilities for manufacturing all that the appropriation will permit us to procure.

The CHAIRMAN. You have facilities for more, if we increase the appropriation?

General CROZIER. Yes, sir. I have facilities for making more if you would increase the appropriation.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you now accumulating a reserve?

General CROZIER. This appropriation will enable us to buy about 14,500,000 rounds of rifle ball cartridges, among other kinds, and we need 180,000,000 rounds, or 300 rounds for 600,000 guns.

The CHAIRMAN. You are accumulating 320,000,000 rounds. General CROZIER. Only about 14,500,000 rounds each year. I only need 180,000,000 rounds of the reserve for 600,000 guns. Mr. HAY. How much have you on hand?

General CROZIER. Abuot 22,000,000 rounds, but in case of war we will still have to use the Krag-Jörgensen rifles, for which we have 58,000,000 rounds, which would be about 150 rounds per gun for those Krag-Jörgensen guns. I am not accumulating any more ammunition for the Krag-Jörgensen gun because those guns are passing off the list.

Mr. SLAYDEN. What is the practice with other governments? About how many rounds per gun do they have as reserve?

General CROZIER. I could not give you any information about that. Such information is not given out.

Mr. SLAYDEN. I thought perhaps you had some data by which you could arrive at it.