The CHAIRMAN. Under the head of retired enlisted men, you spent more than we gave you.

General WHIPPLE. I can explain that in this way, that the estimate is based on the pay for 991 officers, or an increase of 70 officers over the number estimated for 1907. For the fiscal year of 1907, the expenditure approximately will be $2,354,107.03. The appropriation for the fiscal year 1907, for increase service pay of retired officers, was $400,000, and the expenditure was between $390,000 and $400,000. The estimate for 1909 is based on that addition of 70 officers to go on the retired list in 1908 and 1909.

Mr. PRINCE. Do you estimate that some of them will pass away, or will they all live?

General WHIPPLE. That is hard to estimate.

Mr. KAHN. How did you get the estimate of 2,459 enlisted men on the retired list?

General WHIPPLE. We got that from The Adjutant-General's office. There are many of those items that we must get from him.

Mr. PARKER. I have in my hand a printed sheet, headed "comparative statement of estimates for the fiscal year 1909, appropriations for the fiscal years 1908 and 1907, and disbursements during the fiscal year 1907." That was prepared in your office?

General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir; with great care.

Mr. PARKER. It is the first time that we have had a full statement of disbursements for the preceding fiscal year. I understand that it is given so as to make a fair average, one year with another?

General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir.

Mr. PRINCE. AS I understand it, the United States Statutes require the War Department to submit the amount of the appropriation and disbursements made for each fiscal year. Mr. Parker asked you with reference to the sheet of printed matter which you have placed before the committee. Is that a copy of the report that the Secretary of War is required to submit, or have you a fuller and more detailed report?

General WHIPPLE. The Paymaster-General's report is much fuller than that and goes into the expenditures in detail. The PaymasterGeneral is required to make an annual report to the Secretary of War. This sheet before you and the other in the annual report of the Paymaster-General is a report of the exact disbursements according to the fiscal years named.

The CHAIRMAN. The printed report on our table is your report to the Secretary of War?

General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir; that is the annual report of the Paymaster-General to the Secretary of War.

Mr. PRINCE. The one you are required to make is the one you have submitted for 1907, under date of August 1, 1907.

General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir.

Mr. PRINCE. That report gives more in detail the history of the appropriation and the disbursement than does this statement presented to the committee?

General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir.

Mr. KAHN. This statement is much later. This comes down to December, 1907, and the other to August

Mr. PRINCE. What we want is the 1907 estimate, and the one Mr. Parker referred to comes down almost to the present date.

The CHAIRMAN. Down to the 1st of July.

General WHIPPLE. To include June 30, 1907.

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is paymaster's clerks. Have you the same number that you had last year?

General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir; those are all fixed by law.

The CHAIRMAN. How is it we gave you less?

General WHIPPLE. It is due to increase of service. They get an increase for every five years of service up to and including fifteen years and then it ceases.

The CHAIRMAN. In the item of paymaster's messengers there is an increase of $2,000.

General WHIPPLE. That is asked for on account of the need of a messenger in Cuba and two in the Philippines at Zamboanga and Iloilo.

Mr. SLAYDEN. What does a messenger do for a paymaster?

General WHIPPLE. They have a good deal of work to do at a post, such as going back and forth, carrying rolls, and doing the ordinary messenger's work. They take care of the offices and keep them clean. They are practically janitors.

Mr. SLAYDEN. Do they sweep and brush?
General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Here they sit at the door.

General WHIPPLE. I am speaking of the pay department only. The CHAIRMAN. Traveling expenses of paymaster's clerks. I see you expended more than we gave you and more than you asked for this year.

General WHIPPLE. It is all one fund.

The CHAIRMAN. So that it laps over if there is a little shortage on one item?

General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. In courts-martial and courts of inquiry you think you ought to have the same as last year?

General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You get the bills and they are audited in the Treasury Department.

Mr. YOUNG. I see there is quite a large increase in commutation of quarters on account of the law.

Mr. SLAYDEN. Referring to the item estimated for and appropriated for last year for clothing not drawn due to enlisted men on discharge. That is about the amount of the allowance that the enlisted men make as profit.

General WHIPPLE. It is what he saves out of his allowance for clothing during his enlistment of three years.

Mr. SLAYDEN. Dividing that by the average number of enlisted men in the Army you get an idea of what the saving is per man on clothing allowance for three years.

General WHIPPLE. It is only paid on discharge after three years' service.

The CHAIRMAN. It depends on the man and the care he takes of his clothing. Some men are careful and others are not.

Mr. SLAYDEN. It is the total amount saved by the enlisted men of the Army.

General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Next is amount paid officer in charge of public buildings and grounds in Washington.

General WHIPPLE. He has been promoted. He is now a major. The CHAIRMAN. He gets the pay of a colonel?

General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Commutation of officers on duty without troops, $418,000. That is the same as last year. I thought we gave a larger allowance for commutation of quarters.

General WHIPPLE. It was effective from March, 1907.

Mr. YOUNG. We increased it $115,000.

The CHAIRMAN. Interest on soldiers' deposits. That is a guess? General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir.

Mr. YOUNG. The amount seems to get lower.

The CHAIRMAN. The item for expert accountant is fixed by law? General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. There is a new item for extra pay of enlisted men? General WHIPPLE. I would say that the estimates for that extra compensation for enlisted men has been approved by the Secretary of War.

At 11.55 a. m. the committee adjourned to Thursday, January 16, 1908, at 10.30.

JANUARY 16, 1908.

STATEMENT OF GENERAL WHIPPLE Continued.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a little correction in my testimony given at the last hearing with reference to the Hospital Corps. I was asked the question, I think by Mr. Hay, as to whether that limit was fixed by the act of 1901, and I said it was, but I find, in looking it up, that I made an error. The limit was fixed by the act of March 1, 1887. The Secretary of War was given the authority to regulate the number of men in the Hospital Corps. There is no limit, practically. The act reads, "as the service may require." Mr. SLAYDEN. Are they separately and specially recruited? General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir.

Mr. SLAYDEN. Then they can not be detailed for other service in other parts of the Army?

General WHIPPLE. Not until the end of the enlistment period.

The CHAIRMAN. Your first item for to-day is for mileage to officers and contract surgeons when authorized by law, $550,000. On this question of mileage the members of the committee submitted to you some questions which you answered quite promptly and fully. The expenditure of the funds would not come under your jurisdiction in any sense whatever. It is under the Secretary.

General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I noticed in your report that there is a wonderful difference in the amount of the different items. General Greely expended more for himself and the aids than did the others. How did it happen that his expenses were so much larger than the other officers?

General WHIPPLE. That comes from being division commander for the first six months of the calendar year.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the Department of the Lakes? General WHIPPLE. Also Departments of Missouri and Dakota. The CHAIRMAN. I noticed that he expended on his own account $1,955, and by his aids $1,604.

Mr. GORDON. He was in Alaska.

The CHAIRMAN. I presume that in Alaska he was on a Government boat. Are they allowed to take aids with them?

General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir; one aid.

The CHAIRMAN. I see that General Thomas, brigadier-general of the Department of Colorado, got in on it lively, too. All you have to do with it is to pay them when they are certified?

General WHIPPLE. We are governed and regulated by law in the expenditure of every dollar.

Mr. ANTHONY. Is it the custom for officers on sick leave to be allowed mileage?

General WHIPPLE. Not unless they have orders from the Secretary of War or from the department commander, placing them on a duty

status.

Mr. ANTHONY. Do you know of any cases where officers on sick leave have been allowed mileage?

General WHIPPLE. I know only of cases where officers on sick leave would be needed for some special duty and would be ordered for that purpose, and in that case they would be placed on duty.

Mr. ANTHONY. While on any private business you never heard of it? General WHIPPLE. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The only way an officer could get mileage would be to be ordered to report to a certain place. If he is sent for the good of the service, for instance. You have used all of that money and a little more?

General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir; we have practically used all of the mileage of 1907.

Mr. YOUNG. I see that the amount you have asked for is $40,000 less than the amount expended last year on mileage.

General WHIPPLE. It was the judgment of the Paymaster-General's office that we would require more than was included in the estimate. We asked for $600,000, but when the estimate came to the Secretary of War he reduced it $50,000. We are still of the opinion that $550,000 will not be sufficient.

Mr. YOUNG. Is there any reason that you know of why we could not cut that amount below the expenses of last year?

General WHIPPLE. No, sir; I do not think it is possible to do it. The travel naturally increases some.

The CHAIRMAN. I think the mileage account can be cut off largely. I understand that officers went out and inspected Yellowstone Park, came back to Chicago, made inspections there, and returned to the neighborhood of Yellowstone Park again.

Mr. SLAYDEN. Is that a bureau of inspection?

The CHAIRMAN. It is under the commander of one of the depart

ments.

Mr. SLAYDEN. Is it duplicating the work of the Inspector-General? Mr. STEVENS. The accounts are in two or three different depart

ments.

The CHAIRMAN. I was stating what I had been told about the matter.

Mr. STEVENS. No department commander would have authority to do that.

The CHAIRMAN. The impression seems to be that some of these officers have gone several hundred miles out of their way in order to

run up a long mileage account. I think that ought to be brought out, so that if these gentlemen are doing that their accounts ought to be disallowed. I think mileage can be saved if there is a little care taken in that respect.

General WHIPPLE. In the Pay Department we are simply custodians of the fund and we pay them by law and regulations.

Mr. SLAYDEN. Do you think that this $550,000 you estimate for will be required for the officers and contract surgeons for the ensuing fiscal year? Is it below what you think it should be?

General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir. I think it should be $600,000.

Mr. SLAYDEN. How much below?

General WHIPPLE. Up to the 30th of April it is about $50,000 below what it should be. I can answer that better by stating what we have expended up to the 30th of November. The amount is $296,392.

Mr. SLAYDEN. Is that the average?

General WHIPPLE. There is an increase in some items; for instance, for the entire year of 1907 we expended $143,000 for change of stations, and within five months of this year we have expended $93,000, against $143,000 for the entire fiscal year. That is only one item. The CHAIRMAN. Have you a list of all of the mileage?

General WHIPPLE. I have it up to and including the last five months.

The CHAIRMAN. Of this fiscal year?

General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir.

Mr. SLAYDEN. You think it will be exhausted by the 30th of April? General WHIPPLE. Yes, sir; without a doubt.

Mr. SLAYDEN. Suppose Congress decides not to appropriate it, then what will you do?

General WHIPPLE. We will have to do without it or ask for it in a deficiency.

Mr. SLAYDEN. Suppose Congress is not in session.

General WHIPPLE. That will have to be anticipated. But, as a matter of fact, we would make no more payments.

Mr. SLAYDEN. What will be done then?

General WHIPPLE. We can not charge mileage to any other appropriation.

Mr. SLAYDEN. Can they not travel and create a deficiency?

The CHAIRMAN. That is a question of administration. That is a question the Secretary of War can answer. They can create it by law. If there is not enough money it is not against the law for them to create a deficiency.

Mr. SLAYDEN. The question is whether or not it is enjoined by law.

The CHAIRMAN. That is a question for the Comptroller and War Department to thrash out. Would it be possible for you to give us an account of the amount expended?

General WHIPPLE. It is already in the report of the PaymasterGeneral. The funds are itemized.

The CHAIRMAN. I am referring to the mileage paid to each of the different officers.

General WHIPPLE. We could get that, but it would take us many days to do it. It would interfere with the work of the office if we were compelled to make that compilation.