Senator BROOKHART. The difference in it rests on that investment would hire a lot of men, you see.

Major General GIBBS. But my observation is that the maintenance of the radio circuits is tremendously greater.

The CHAIRMAN. Is the service just as reliable by one system as by the other?

Major General GIBBS. Well, that is a relative matter, of course. Unless the cable is interrupted the cable is 100 per cent. And the radio is never 100 per cent, so far as I know. I do not know whether my friend, Captain Hooper, would agree with me, but I do not know of any that is 100 per cent.

Senator HOWELL. General, you have a radio station now at Seattle?

Major General GIBBS. Yes.

Senator HowELL. And also at Ketchikan?

Major General GIBBS. Yes, sir.

Senator HOWELL. And also at Seward?

Major General GIBBS. Yes, sir.

Senator HOWELL. Could you afford the committee the cost of operation of the cable, the investment in the cable, and also the cost of operation of the three radio stations and the actual investment in the radio stations?

Major General GIBBS. Well, Senator, the way the thing stands now these radio circuits we have there are purely experimental circuits employing small transmitters that never were built to work tho se distances, and while they do work fairly satisfactorily part of the time, they are not the kind of thing we would put reliance on at all, and you can not make any comparison, such a comparison as you would want between the cable, which is a going concern, and a radio circuit, such as can be established when we get money to put in the transmitters.

Senator HOWELL. But you are maintaining radio communication? Major General GIBBS. Just experimental.

Senator HOWELL. But you are maintaining the communication? Major General GIBBS. No, sir. Part of the time we are, but we do not handle the business over those radio circuits.

Senator HowELL. You do not handle the business over those radio circuits, but you could handle the business over those radio circuits?

Major General GIBBS. We could handle part of it. We could not handle it satisfactorily with the sets that we have.

Senator HOWELL. Could you afford the committee the cost of these stations, the cost of the cable, the cost of operating these stations now, and the cost of operating the cable?

Major General GIBBS. Yes, sir.

Senator HOWELL. If you would afford us that data, we would be very much obliged to you.

Major General GIBBS. I would be very glad to. Of course figures as to what it would cost to handle all that business by radio stations that would be capable of handling that business have got to be an estimate.

Senator HOWELL. Would you give us the number of words transmitted in a year over the cable and also the number of words transmitted by the radio stations?

Major General GIBBS. Yes, sir.

Senator HOWELL. So we may compare the relative amount of business done by the two.

Major General GIBBS. Yes, sir.

Senator HOWELL. Thank you.

Major General GIBBS. I would like to make the following suggestions with reference to the bill:

Certain paragraphs of bill S. 6 are similar to paragraphs in the original bill written about four years ago. At that time the use of radio by aircraft was extremely limited and bill S. 6 as now written uses the term "ship station" to the exclusion of radio stations that might be installed on aircraft of whatever sort. It is recommended that the bill be written so as to include all mobile stations as defined by the 1927 International Radiotelegraph Convention which has been ratified by the United States and which should be written into this bill. This may be done if the term "mobile station" is used to indicate all ship or aircraft radio stations, if provisions of the bill applying to ships or vessels are made to apply also to aircraft and if the words "land station" are used wherever the words "coast station" or "shore station" are used in this bill.

Section 15 of this bill undertakes to set up competition between radio and wire and cable. It is thought that these means of communication should be considered as complementary and supplementary rather than independent means. Radio communication is placed in an unfair position with reference to wire communication and it is believed its development will be retarded by the competitive arrangement contemplated by this section. It is recommended that the bill provide for competition between communication agencies rather than between means of communication. This may be accomplished by the omission of section 15 and slight changes in sections 11 and 13.

It is recommended that sections 20, 21, and 22 of this bill be rewritten so as to apply equally to ships or to aircraft in distress.

Section 22 of the bill is at variance with the International Radiotelegraph Convention of 1927 which has been ratified by the United States and should be rewritten to conform therewith. It is therefore recommended that section 22 of this bill dealing with communication between mobile and land stations include section 1, paragraph (2) and sections 2 and 3 of article 3 of the International Radiotelegraph Convention, or read as follows:

When fixed stations carry on an international service of public correspondence, either from country to country or with stations in the mobile service, they must conform, respectively, for each of these two classes of communications, to the provisions of the International Radio Convention and the General Regulations annexed thereto, signed at Washington, November 25, 1927.

With regard to communications between stations participating in the mobile service, stations carrying on such communications must, within the limits of their normal operations, exchange radiotelegrams reciprocally without regard to the radio system adopted by them.

In order not to impede scientific progress, however, the provisions of the preceding paragraph shall not prevent the eventual use of a radio system incapable of communicating with other systems, provided that this incapacity be due to the specific nature of that system and it be not the result of devices adopted solely for the purpose of preventing intercommunication.

Section 23 of bill S. 6 as at present written opens the way for a station with inferior equipment to force a division of time with Government stations carrying on essential communication. This division of time on adjoining frequencies in the radio spectrum results in the sacrificing of the radio spectrum in the interests of poor equipment. Interference between radio stations in close proximity to each other either geographical or in the radio spectrum is properly a subject of regulation, and it is believed that authority should be given the commission to regulate such matters. This authority is given the commission in section 4 of the bill, and it is therefore recommended that section 23 be omitted.

The Army is by existing law primarily responsible for communication with and within the Territory of Alaska and employs both radio and cable in its Alaskan communication system. The act establishing the Bureau of Aeronautics in the Department of Commerce authorizes the Department of Commerce to carry on certain radio communication in aid of airways. Airways are not being organized in Alaska and will doubtless be serviced by either the Army or the Department of Commerce. In view of these facts it is recommended that the following changes be made in section 28 of the bill so as to cover all governmental agencies authorized to carry on commercial communication:

Page 34, line 3, and page 35, lines 7 and 8, strike out "Secretary of the Navy" and insert the word "President."

Page 34, line 5, strike out the word "him" and insert the words "head of the department or independent establishment having jurisdiction thereof."

Page 34, lines 9 and 10, strike out the words "and under the control of the Navy Department."

Page 34, line 16, strike out "ship and shore" and substitute the words "mobile stations" and "land stations".

I submit to the committee a copy of the bill corrected to incorporate and make effective these recommendations.

Senator DILL (presiding). The chairman stepped out for a moment and asked me to preside. Are there any other questions? Was there anything else you wanted to say to the committee, General? Major General GIBBS. I think not, sir.

Senator DILL. General, have you a copy of that map you could leave so we could put it in the record? You can send down another if you want to.

Major General GIBBS. I have here a map of our radio net covering the whole of the United States, and then you have that map of the Alaska system. You can have them both if you like.

Senator DILL. I think we ought to have them in.

Major COLES. We have some photographs of that Alaska map. Senator DILL. That would be fine, if you would furnish that. Major General GIBBS. And the figures of the business handled over these nets all appear in the annual report and in the House hearings of the Appropriations Committee.

Senator DILL. You were going to furnish certain data for Senator Howell, also.

Major General GIBBS. Yes, sir.

(The Alaska map and the map of the radio net covering the United States, as well as the data requested by Senator Howell, are here printed in the record.)