The Chancellor of the Exchequer said that he had stated that applications had been made to increase the establishment of the Naval Hospital at Malta beyond its amount, when there were only six thousand men in the Mediterranean, because circumstances had induced Government to raise that force to eight thousand men, and such being the case, they necessarily required a more extensive establishment, and an augmentation was made in the Naval Hospital.

had fallen from the Secretary to the Admiralty respecting the hospital at Malta. In July it appeared that Government did not consider it necessary to go on with the works at this hospital; but in August an emergency of so grave a nature was stated to have arisen, that Government considered itself justified in applying certain monies to the completion of this establishment, without waiting for a vote from Parliament. From this he had naturally inferred that there was an apprehension that the fleet at Malta might be brought into immediate action. He said then that we must have been upon the verge of a war, and he was not contradicted. The right hon. Gentleman did certainly now say no.' But still the statement of the right hon. Secretary to the Admiralty, combined with rumours he had heard from unofficial quarters, to the effect that the Russians were informed that if they proceeded in the extension of the blockade of the Dardanelles, the consequence to them would be a war upon the part of this country-had all induced him to entertain the suspicion, and arrive at the conclusion, to which he had given utterance. It might be that these rumours were perfectly unfounded. Such, however, did not very clearly appear to be the fact; but when the papers which he was desirous of having, came before the House, the necessary information with respect to those transactions would be obtained, and we should then see how the matter stood.

Sir G. Cockburn said, the noble Lord had mistaken the nature and tendency of the statement made by the Secretary to the Admiralty. It had been simply stated, that because in August our force in the Mediterranean had been increased from six thousand to eight thousand men, and from six to nine sail of the line, there would be a necessity for an increased accommodation in the Seamen's Hospital at Malta. Nothing had been breathed respecting the country being upon the verge of a war.

Mr. Hume said, the statement was, that a case of emergency had arisen which warranted the Admiralty in venturing to increase the expense of the particular item in question, even without the sanction of the House. He could assure Gentlemen opposite, that among persons sitting on this side of the House the impression created, not only by what fell from the Secretary of the Admiralty, but by the observations of another right hon. Gentleman, now in his place, was, that such a danger as that described did exist last August.

Sir J. Wrottesley entirely acquitted the right hon. Gentleman of having given any ground for supposing that a war was impending in August; but from what fell from the Secretary to the Admiralty, he must say that the strong impression upon his mind at the time was, not only that it had been likely that the hospital would be called into action to a greater extent than usual by reason of the augmentation of force in the Mediterranean, but that it had been necessary to provide for the contingency of having a certain number of wounded men to take care of; and it struck him at the time as being rather extraordinary that a communication so important as he considered that to be, should have come from a Gentleman not in the Cabinet.

Lord Howick observed, that the exact words made use of on such an occasion are important; and he believed he could state them pretty accurately. The right hon. Secretary said, that in the month of July the Lords of the Admiralty thought no increase in the hospital at Malta would be necessary; but that in August, there being a prospect of the fleet being called into immediate action, it was requisite to augment the hospital.

Sir G. Cockburn said, it was stated that in July there was no intention of augmenting the establishment; but that in August, an increase having taken place in the Mediterranean fleet instead of a decrease, it was necessary to augment the hospital. Nine sail of the line were upon the station: it was impossible to tell what might be the result, but he did not say there had been a probability of war.

The conversation dropped, and the Motion for the adjournment of the House at its rising till Monday was agreed to.

Mr. Hume said, he rose to offer a few observations which could no longer be of any use, since the vote upon which he proposed to touch had been already agreed to. The thrice-told tale about the Ordnance had now become very stale indeed; and from the recent vote, which decided upon the continuance of an unnecessary office, it was perfectly obvious that no reduction in this department was to be expected. He was now fighting in a cause altogether desperate; still he would trouble the House with a few words. There was one extraordinary thing to which he desired to call their attention. The expenses of the Ordnance Establishment, in 1796, were only 18,700l., while at present they amounted to 71,000l. It was also remarkable, that when there were four Lords of the Admiralty at 4,000l., there should be a Lieutenant-general of the Ordnance at 1,200l. a year, a Surveyor-general at 1,200l. a year, a principal Storekeeper at 1,2001. a year, a Clerk of the Ordnance at 1,200l. a year, and a Clerk of the Deliveries at 1,0197. a year. Government was, he thought, called on, if they had any regard to their professions, to make some reduction in this enormous expenditure. He would also, in addition to what he had before said, tell the House an extraordinary fact. In 1796 the Surveyorgeneral of the Ordnance had only fourteen clerks, at salaries of 2,0191.; at present there were forty-seven clerks at 14,0347. He could not see why there should be two establishments kept up-one at Pall-mall, the other at the Tower. He should be glad to know, what possible inconvenience could occur from removing the clerks from the Tower to Pall-mall? It could be done without any trouble, and with very little expense, while, by taking that course, a considerable saving would be made. Besides, it was important that all the members of any department should be together, since it materially tended to facilitate the transaction of business. On this ground, he did think, even leaving the important question of economy out of sight, that it was proper to have these different clerks under the same roof. Neither could he observe the utility of keeping up, at enormous salaries, two such officers as the Master-general and Lieutenant-general of the Ordnance, when the Lieutenant-general, by the account of

Mr. Perceval observed, that the speech of the hon. Member appeared to be entirely directed to the vote that had been carried the other night; and he thought that the hon. Gentleman must candidly admit that he had made but a rambling statement, from beginning to end. He therefore trusted that he should be excused if he did not follow him accurately and convincingly through every portion of it. The hon. Gentleman had compared the present state of the Ordnance with that of 1796; but he must be aware that since that period an immense increase of business had been imposed upon the department. That was a ground, therefore, on which censure could not, with justice, be founded. The duty at the present time was increased,-it was trebled; and he would ask, could those who were at the head of the department prevent it from being so increased? The whole subject had been gone into with great detail by his right hon. friend (Sir H. Hardinge) in his evidence before the Finance Committee; and the expressed opinion of his right hon. friend was, that in reality a great saving had been effected. The hon. Member had compared the establishment of the Ordnance with that of the Navy; but he seemed to have forgotten that the former department, in many respects, had much to do on account of the Navy department; all which ought to be taken into consideration. The whole of the Colonial business, as far as garrisons and artillery were concerned in particular, had been thrown on the Ordnance department since the year 1823. The hon. Gentleman had alluded to the duties of the chief clerk in the office of the Surveyor-ge neral. That individual had been in the service for fifty years; his exertions had been most meritorious; his salary was not more than commensurate to his labours; and on his retirement, his allowance would

be reduced to 9007. With respect to the removal of the office from the Tower to Pall-mall, that subject had not been overlooked by the Board, and a calculation had been made of the expense that would be likely to follow on such a step. The result of this calculation was, a conviction that no saving would accrue from the measure. Without considerable buildings to the right and left of the present office in Pall-mall, the thing could not be accomplished at all. If such a proposal as this were to be introduced to the House, he should like to know whether the hon. Member would support the Estimate, and pronounce an eulogium on the principle. It was proved before the Finance Committee, that the expense of the buildings at present was about 1,600l. ayear; but if the suggestion of the hon. Gentleman were attended to, it would, he believed, be necessary to increase the expense very much. With respect to the reduction of the Master-general's salary, if the hon. Gentleman would make a motion on the subject, no doubt it would be properly met.

Mr. Poulett Thomson remarked, that in the Estimates there were four clerks at 550l. a year, and six clerks at 400l. a year in the Surveyor-general's department, in all fortyseven, and he could not conceive that there was a necessity for such a number of clerks, or for them to have such large salaries as at present.

Mr. Lennard said, he wished to know whether there was any estimate of the expense that would be incurred by removing the clerks to Pall-mall; for at present the question appeared to be one of expense only? The right hon. Gentleman, in his evidence before the Finance Committee, seemed to favour the supposition that the removal itself would be expedient. He was also of opinion, that the business might be done at a less expense.

Mr. Maberly said, there was no reason whatever-notwithstanding the assertions of hon. Members opposite, who seemed to think that these two offices possessed some repelling power-why they should be kept separate. A removal as to the Store-department had already taken place; then why not in this case also. It was in every respect improper, that two establishments, which related to the same department, and ought to be under one roof, were thus divided. Letters were continually sent to and fro because the two parts were separate. The Finance Committee, in looking at this question, had proceeded on principle; for what

should they think of any other department -the Treasury, for instance-if one portion of it were carried on at the Tower and the other at Pall-mall? He, therefore, like the committee, looked upon the question as one of principle, which respected the mode of conducting public business, rather than of economy, though that was also a matter of great importance. What, then, was the reason why the establishment so hung to the Tower? Because the officers were afraid that they would have to give up their residences without remuneration; and the same feeling prevailed at Pall-mall. Would any one pretend to say that there was not ample room for all the clerks at Pall-mall if the building was properly disposed? But if a room forty feet square was given up for a waiting-room, no wonder sufficient room could not be found.

Sir Henry Fane said, he was unwilling to trouble the House, but he was obliged to do so by the observations of the hon. member for Dover, relative to the clerks in the Surveyor-general's office. Looking to the various duties which were to be performed, forty-seven clerks were not too much; and he could assure the House that all of them were occupied. It had been said, on a previous evening, that the only business of the Ordnance was to superintend the cutting of jackets and the contracts for pipe-clay with respect to his own department, he begged to say that the duties were much more serious and important. The details of business connected with the barrack department were very numerous. He had to examine accounts of almost all business which could be named, and even of much which could not be named in that place. With respect to the enormous amount of salaries, all he could say was, that the gentleman to whom allusion had been made had been in the service for more than fifty years, and had always shewn himself a most meritorious officer.

Mr. Hume said, there were many general officers who had served equally long, and who did not receive a third of the pay; therefore either the one was over-rated, or the other under-rated. At the same time he was bound to say, that no department could be in better order; and as to the individual, he appeared to be as fit as possible; and if the union and consolidation which he had introduced had been adopted by the Board, he thought that the whole department would now have been in much better order. As regarded the barracks, two good clerks were sufficient to do the work, for all