in France and the Netherlands, where the same advantages were attained on the way of security as here, and no tax was imposed upon the transaction. Suppose the premium on a policy of marine insurance were a guinea, a duty of 5s. was levied; but if a vessel were going into the South Seas for three years, and the premium amounted to fifteen guineas, the duty to Government was still the same (5s.) as on a guinea insurance. This was manifestly unfair, and he felt disappointed that the right hon. Gentleman had not mentioned the subject. Again, there was a duty of 200 per cent on policies of fire 'insurance; if this were reduced one-half, he was satisfied that the Revenue would not lose but be augmented by the change. With respect to the reduction of the four per cents, he agreed with the hon. Member for Callington, that in consequence of there appearing to be no Sinking-fund for 1831, the effect of the reduction would be, to a certain extent, marred. There was another point worthy of consideration. The leading powers of the continent were about reducing their debts: if we deferred till a later period the reduction of our four per cents, we should have a great flow of capital from foreign countries, and could reduce them with greater advantage in another year. The hon. Member concluded by expressing a hope, that Government would pay attention to the taxes which bore most heavily upon the productive classes. Mr. Huskisson was not going into the subject of the state of the country at that moment, as there was a notice of motion for to-morrow which would afford a better opportunity for entering upon such a discussion, and he intended to avail himself of it. If he rose upon this occasion, it was because he could not deny himself the gratification of expressing his approbation of the statement made by his right hon. friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He admitted, however, that the gratification which he felt at that statement was not wholly unalloyed by considerations such as those alluded to by the hon. Member for Callington. Not, however, that he thought it possible for any one to doubt, under whatever circumstances of trial or difficulty which might arise, that we should be enabled to maintain the public faith and the credit of the country untarnished. He thought, under all the existing circumstances, that the plan laid down by his right hon. friend was that most expedient for the country, and his statement of that evening was one which he, in common he was sure with the House at large, had heard with unmixed satisfaction. If there was any drawback on that satisfaction, it could be only a difference of opinion as to the articles which his right hon. friend had selected for a reduction of duty. He said reduction when he should have said abolition; for he was glad that his right hon. friend had resolved upon the total abolition, instead of a partial reduction, of the duties upon Beer and Leather, as otherwise the benefits of lessening the taxes on those articles would not be felt by the public. He agreed with the hon. Member for Callington as to the advantages which might arise from converting the present permanent four per cent annuities into five per cent, or perhaps something higher annuities, for a definite number of years, but he would reserve his opinion on the general merits of the hon. Member's proposition when the distress of the country, with a view to its adequate relief, was substantively before the House. With respect to what had been said about reducing the four per cents to three or three and a half per cent, he begged leave to say that he had more than once in that House advocated the principle of such a reduction, and had expressly stated, that Ministers would be guilty of a neglect of duty did they fail to take advantage of such a state of public credit as would enable them to effect a practicable diminution of the public burthens. sorry, however, to hear his right hon. friend associate the proposition in any way with the state of the foreign exchanges. The Chancellor of the Exchequer ought not to be regulated by exchanges depending on contingencies in contracting any loans necessary for the public service; in fact, he should not borrow from any other party, not even the Bank of England, than the public; rendering himself independent of the state of the exchange and of foreign markets. He trusted, that after all the sufferings of the country, in order to at tain a solid improved currency, no measure would be sanctioned by the Government, the tendency of which would be to lock up capital in the coffers of the Bank of England, a result which would be consequent upon a reliance on foreign exchanges. With respect to what had been He was Sir C. Burrell expressed himself dissatisfied with the reduction of the Beertax, which might benefit a few places but would give no general relief to the country. He considered that much more general benefit would accrue from a diminution of the duty on Malt, which would be equally an advantage to the agriculturist and the consumer of Beer. said about putting an end to our present Sinking-fund system altogether in 1831, he thought it right to say, that he was one of those who approved of the principles of a Sinking-fund, in fact, he thought that there should be always a bona fide surplus of income over expenditure applied to the reduction of the debt. The revenue of the country was collected from so many sources of a contingent nature, that it was Sir T. Acland, on the part of the Westimpossible to count on it, and the expen- ern Counties, and of himself, begged to diture being every year in exact propor- express entire satisfaction at one portion tion to each other; so that an actual an- of the relief granted. He was happy to nual surplus of income over expenditure think that the satisfaction which he saw was necessary, not only for the purpose sparkling in the countenances of all around of reducing the debt, but also to enable us him would be soon shared by a large and to provide for any casual deficiencies in worthy part of the community. The rethe Revenue which might arise. The pre- duction was one fraught with comfort and sent mode of employing the surplus re- convenience to a numerous class, and would venue was the very best which could have occasion but small loss to the Revenue. been adopted under the existing circum- The tax was one which, from his own stances of the country; and he should knowledge, he could state, had caused therefore wish to see it carried further into much inconvenience and vexation in the operation than it had been. He wished, western counties, and he was heartily glad indeed, that we had a sufficient surplus of it was removed. He also approved of the income over expenditure to carry into selection of the Beer and Leather Duties effect on a large scale the proposal of the for reduction. The first had pressed very hon. Member, to which he had before al- heavily on the lower classes; and the luded; for converting, he wished he could second had been a tax of the most vexasay 100 millions, of permanent annuities tious and oppressive nature. He knew an into life annuities, or annuities for a term instance in which a very worthy man was of years. He thought such a measure brought within the power of the Excise would be the best and most efficacious regulations, and put to considerable exmode of reducing the amount of the debt pense and inconvenience, in consequence that could be acted upon consistently with of two labourers of his having, without his the honour of the country. By such a knowledge, tanned for themselves two mode our permanent change might be aprons, value one shilling. It had been changed into annuities terminating in the observed, that when half this tax upon course of thirty or forty years, which was leather was taken off, little benefit had renothing in the history of nations. There sulted from it. There was an old proverb, could be no difficulty in adopting such a" you should do nothing by halves;" on plan, and he trusted the House and the Government would give it a fair consideration, with a view to its being practically acted upon with as little loss of time as possible. In his anxiety to see the amount of the debt reduced he would gladly encourage the passing of such a measure, while we possessed the means of effecting it advantageously for the public. But, as he had stated, he should deliver his opinion more fully on the subject when he explained his views of the present distress of the country, of its causes and its extent, which he thought had been much exaggerated, and of other modes than those mentioned by his right hon. friend that evening, of reducing the public expenditure with a view to remedy it. the faith of which he would venture to hope, that though the first experiment had been unsuccessful, the total removal of the duties would be attended with the best results. Lord Milton said, he agreed with the hon. Baronet, in thinking that the selection of the duties on Beer was not the most beneficial which could have been made. In his opinion, it would have been better to have reduced the duties on Malt; and that this would have been the most beneficial reduction for the land-owners and cultivators of the soil, no doubt could be entertained. The Beer-tax, it should be considered, was one affecting a particular class and particular districts. There were many districts (as for instance, the The Chancellor of the Exchequer begged leave to say one word in explanation of a point which had been referred to by the hon. Member for Callington, and subsequently by the right hon. Member for Liverpool. The hon. Member seemed to intimate to the House, that he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) contemplated that in 1831 he should have no surplus of income over expenditure. He must have expressed himself very differently to what he had intended, if he had said any thing to warrant such an inference. His part of Yorkshire in which he resided) | the North of England. He contended, where the people brewed for themselves, therefore, it would be more advantageous and he thought that when Government to leave the duty as it was in this country, gave up a tax for the benefit of the com- and to add something to the duty in Scotmunity, it was quite unfair that any geo- land. graphical section should be deprived of the advantage. He believed, too, that the reduction of this Beer-tax would drive more people to the public-house, while the reduction of the duties on Malt would induce them to brew for themselves. With respect to the other tax, he meant that upon Leather, he agreed with hon. Members, it was well selected. He also concurred with what had fallen from the hon. Member for Abingdon, touching the four per cents; but he hoped no expedient would be resorted to for the purpose of raising the Stock so as to enable Govern-line of argument was, that though he ment to effect their object. The fundholders were not a rich and overgorged class, as some had described them, with a view to inducing Government to commit the most disgraceful act ever contemplated in any nation. The paper produced by the hon. Member for Callington afforded abundant proof of this. They were, on the contrary, for the most part, persons who, after the labour of years, had succeeded in making some little capital, which they deposited there, to provide for the evening of their days. Mr. Liddel objected to the additional duty on Whiskey. He thought it would hold out an inducement to illicit distillation in the Highlands and in Ireland. It would also encourage smuggling on the borders of England and Scotland. The Government could not lay an additional shilling duty on Corn-spirits in Ireland and Scotland, and leaving, as it did, a great difference between the duties levied in the different countries, it encouraged smuggling. If the additional duty on Spirits were necessary to prevent the people drinking so much, why should it not be extended to spirits made in Scot land? Lord Howick was of the same opinion as the last speaker. He stated, that smuggled whiskey was consumed to a great amount in Northumberland and Cumberland. He thought it would be better to raise the duty in Scotland. This would, perhaps, increase in some degree illicit distillation in the Highlands, but the Revenue would still be collected in the Lowlands; so that on the whole, the mischief would not be so great as the increase of smuggling in could not predict that that surplus would be 3,000,000l., he still thought he might rationally look to when he took the proposed reduction of the four per cents, and the other measures of economy of the Government, into account- —a bona fide surplus of at least 1,500,0007.—a sum which a good harvest and improved circumstances of the country would raise still higher. He had taken particular pains to impress this view on the minds of hon. Members, and regretted that a contrary impression had been made on the hon. Member for Callington, and perhaps, on the House at large. He hoped, however, that the House was then disabused of its misconception, and that he had set it right. With respect to what had fallen from the noble Lord who spoke last, he begged leave to say, that he agreed with that noble Lord, that the subject of duty on spirit, whether with a view to its reduction or increase, was one beset with difficulties. He admitted that it was objectionable in principle that there should be one duty in one country or county, and another in one immediately adjoining it; that this difference of duty opened the door to smuggling and other frauds on the Revenue, but he contended, that he brought a new enemy, a third antagonist, into the field against those evils, in abolishing the duty on Beer, a beverage which he confidently hoped would, in time, expel ardent spirits from the use of the industrious and poor classes, and with it, those lawless habits which an appetite for it generated. With respect to the proposal of somewhat equalizing the duties on Scotch whiskey in the two countries, he Mr. Baring was sorry if he had misconceived the expression of the right hon. Gentleman to the degree he had stated, and should feel much obliged to him, as he was sure would the House at large, if he would show, by way of figures, how far he was misrepresented, and how far he should be borne out in his then explanation of the drift of his meaning. Did the right hon. Gentleman found his anticipation of the amount, 1,500,000l. of his surplus in 1831, on the probable revenue of 1830? If not, what were the data of his calculations? The right hon. Gentleman said, he looked forward to the improved circumstances of the country, particularly to the beneficial effects of a good harvest; but the right hon. Gentleman strangely forgot that a good harvest, and that in the degree of its goodness, would sweep away all the revenue which he expected to derive from the importation of foreign corn, which amounted this year to 800,000Z. was willing to admit that, so far as finance | ample, admit that the reduction of the tax was concerned, it would be a most de- on Beer would increase the growth of malt sirable measure; but from the facilities and hops, and therefore, could not apwhich the north of Scotland afforded for prove of a reduction which might tend, smuggling, and illicitly preparing that perhaps, to deteriorate the quality of beer spirit, and the taste and habit of the by increasing its quantity, without a corHighlander, it was deemed expedient to respondent increase of the materials. The adopt the present scale of duty. only way in which an increase of those articles could be effected was, by a reduction of the duty on them. But little good would be effected by what Ministers proposed, and little would be done to ameliorate the condition of the people of this country, unless a free trade were allowed in corn. He gave Ministers every credit for the measure which they proposed for the reduction of the four per cents, nor did he suppose that any intention existed on their part to depart from the terms of the contract with the fund-holder. The fund-holder here, beside, had his remedy, for it was open to him to sell out if he felt any objection to the proposed arrangement; but he thought that the terms were rather hard, as regarded the public, for the public would be obliged, under the present circumstances, to pay 1007. for only 601. which it had originally borrowed. In private concerns, if a man borrowed 1,0007. upon an engagement to pay afterwards, whenever called upon by the lender, 2,0007. he was sure that the courts of equity in this country would relieve that individual from such a contract, on the ground of its being usurious, and he ought to be relieved from it. He was surprised that Ministers endeavoured to keep up the price of the Stocks, they ought rather to endeavour to lower it, if they could; for it was surely more advantageous to purchase an annuity of 37. for 701. than for 100l. The truth was, that all our loans had been contracted on the most injurious terms. we bound ourselves to pay for ever, we had not received more than 607., and now we were, according to our engagements, redeeming that annuity by paying 1007. Such a transaction was any thing but honest, and had it taken place between individuals, would have been held void at law. He thought that, in order to afford substantial relief to the country, the reduction of taxation ought to be carried to 10,000,000l. or 12,000,000l., and an equitable property-tax laid on to meet whatever deficiency such a reduction might occasion. He gave Ministers every credit for economy, but their disposition was not N The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, the hon. Gentleman was putting the matter in a form in which it was not fair to represent it to the House. He only chose to take the figures on one side,while he forbade him to take those on the other. The Estimate of the Revenue for 1831 was a matter of fair calculation, and it might be expected would yield as much, or more, than that of preceding years. Mr. D. W. Harvey begged leave, as one who was, in the best sense of the term, a representative of the people, to express on their part his satisfaction at the proposed abolition of duty on three of the articles of life which were chiefly consumed by the industrious poor. He could not augur the extensive benefits which some hon. Members seemed to expect would follow from those reductions, nor from the giving up 3,000,000l. of taxes, certainly a large concession to public opinion, which the right hon. Chancellor of the Exchequer had boasted about, but still he received them with applause as an index of a better system of the public expenditure. He could not, for exVOL. XXIII. For the 31. a-year permitted to go in that way farther than theory, for in every step they were met by a counteracting influence in Parliament, which was both difficult to define, and impossible to control. The Resolutions were then put, and agreed to; and the House having resumed the Report was ordered to be received the next day. EAST RETFORD.] Mr. N. Calvert moved the Order of the Day for the third reading of the East Retford Disfranchisement Bill. Mr. Hobhouse said, that he should take the sense of the House upon the question whether it was fit that such a deception should be practised as this Bill endeavoured to accomplish. He moved, as an Amendment, that the Bill be read a third time on this day six months. Mr. Hume said, that he should vote against the Bill. Mr. Alderman Waithman gave notice, as he saw the Attorney General in his place, that, on a future day, he would move for copies of the Judge's Notes, and of the indictment, on a trial for perjury and bribery at the election for Stockbridge. Sir R. Wilson thought half a loaf better than no bread, and therefore should support the Bill by his vote, as he could obtain nothing more. Knight, R. Mr. O'Connell, on the question that the Bill do pass, rose, pursuant to the notice he had given, to move an additional clause to the Bill. His object, he said, was to secure to the Hundred of Bassetlaw, the power to vote for Representatives by ballot, and he felt so strongly the vast importance and inherent value of the plan, that he feared its loss would be attributable chiefly to the want of talent in its advocate. Whatever might be the fate of Mr. Tennyson reminded the honourable his Amendment this night, he had so and gallant Member for Southwark, that much reliance on the plain common sense if this Bill were defeated another trial and strong understanding of the people of might yet be made to transfer the fran- this country, that he was satisfied every chise to Birmingham. fresh discussion would be followed by The House then divided. For the fresh proselytes, until at length the conAmendment 83; Against it 164; Major-viction out of doors would make its due ity, 81. impression within. The avowed ostensible object of this Bill was to prevent bribery and corruption in the borough of East Retford, and the way in which that was proposed to be effected was, by increasing the number of voters. He did not see how such a remedy would cure the acknowledged evil which existed in this instance, and if such a remedy were efficient, he should certainly like to see the standard ascertained as to the given number of voters which would prevent bribery and corruption in boroughs of this description. Now he (Mr. O'Connell) would propose a really efficient measure for preventing bribery and corruption for the future in this borough. He should propose that the poll be taken by ballot, |