Returns were ordered, on the Motion of MR. HUME, of the inhabitants of Churwell and Beeston:-By Lord STAN LEY, from Rochdale :-And by MR. DICKENSON, from Frome, in Somersetshire. Praying for the Repeal of the Sub-letting Acts in Ireland, for a Composition of Tythes, and for a Repeal of the Vestry Act--by Mr. O'CONNELL, from several Parishes in Ireland :-By Mr. OTWAY CAVE, from Carrick-on-Suir. Praying for the Repeal of the Assessed Taxes by Mr. SYKES, from the inhabitants of Kingston-upon-Hull :-By the same Gentleman, from the same place, praying for measures to enable Creditors more effectually to recover Small Debts. Against the Duty on Coals carried Coastwise-by Mr. HOLDSWORTH, from the inhabitants of Clifton, Dartmouth, Hardness:- By Praying for an Alteration of the Corn Laws-by Mr. SADLER, from JOHN WRIGHT, of Lenton-House, Nottingham. Praying for assistance to Emigrate by Colonel CRADOCK, from the inhabitants of Camelford. Mr. W. HORTON, from the Emigration Society of Lanarkshire. Praying that the Poor-law Amendment Bill might not pass into a Law-by Sir M. W. RIDLEY, from Newcastle-upon-Tyne :-By Mr. SYKES, from the Guardians of the Poor at Hull. Against the Removal of the Hay-market Bill- by Mr. BYNG, from the Farmers and Hay-Salesmen, residing near the Metropolis: And Against throwing open the Retail Trade in Beer-By Lord EASTNOR. from the inhabitants of the City of Hereford. Praying for the Repeal of Capital Punishment in cases of Forgery-By Mr. PENDARVIS, from the in from the Licensed Victuallers, residing in the Hay-market. habitants of Falmouth; And by Mr. CRIPPS, from the inhabitants of Cirencester. Praying for the Abolition of the plan of Paying Wages in Goods-By Sir CHRISTOPHER COLE, from certain Iron-Masters in Glamorgan:-By Mr. Persuasion, in the neighbourhood of Dudley, Complain Over, referring to that notice, and to the large number of Members in attendance, said, that the great object he had in view was to procure that large attendance which he now saw present. There were also, he understood, many other Members in town who would be present in the course of the evening, and he had no doubt that the division on the motion of the hon. Member for Shaftesbury on the State of the Country on that evening, would express the full sense of the Country on this important question. He Would therefore now move that the order for calling the House over be discharged. Ordered accordingly. ST. GILES's AND ST. GEORGE'S BLOOMSBURY, VESTRY BILL.] Mr. Hobhouse presented a Petition signed by 2,000 most respectable inhabitants of the parishes of St. Giles and St. George Bloomsbury, against the Bill now in the House for establishing a Select Vestry in those parishes. The meeting at which this petition had been agreed to was one of the most numerous and respectable he had ever seen, and the opinions there expressed showed that the Bill did not express the sentiments of the majority of the parish. He was surprised that any hon. Member could press a bill which which was so much against the feelings of the great mass of the parishioners. The Speaker informed the hon. Member, that the petition being against the principle of the Bill, it could not be re WILMOT HORTON, from Newcastle-under-Lyne: And by Mr. W. SMITH, from the Ministers of the Wesleyan ing of Distress, and Praying for Relief-By Mr. FoUN-ferred, as he moved that it should, to the TAYNE WILSON, from the inhabitants of Marrick, in the County of York:-By Sir W. HEATHCOTE, from the Freeparishes in Hampshire:- By Colonel LYGON, from the Grand Jury of Worcester; and by Mr. W. Des holders of Hampshire, and from the inhabitants of several COMBE, from the Agricultural Society of Holderness :— By Mr. ESTCOURT, from Dunsley. Praying for the Continuance of the Bounties on Fishing,-by Mr. O'CON NELL, from the Fishermen of Belfast. Praying for a Re peal of the Duty on Malt, Hops, and Beer: And for a Reform in Parliament, by Sir JOHN SEBRIGHT, from the Freeholders of the County of Hereford :-By Lord Viscount MANDEVILLE, from persons in the neighbourhood of Huntingdon:-By Lord ALTHORP, from the Hundred of Humbleyard:-And by Mr. W. SMITH, from the Justices and others of the County of Ross: And praying for the Repeal of the Leather Tax, by Mr. O'CONNELL, from Kilkenny and Wexford. CALL OF THE HOUSE.] A Motion for calling the House over having been fixed for to-day, the attendance of Members at four o'clock was unusually great; and the call was, therefore, not enforced. Committee; for the principle of the Bill had been already agreed to on the second reading. If the petitioners prayed against parts of the Bill, the petition might be sent to the committee. Mr. Hobhouse said, that the petitioners prayed against certain clauses of the Bill as well as against the principle, and on that ground, he thought, with all deference to to the authority of Mr. Speaker, that the petition might be so referred. The Speaker said, if the bon. Member stated that those classes did not emine the principle of the B, the petitur might be referred to the committee Petition referred accordingly. DISTRESS OF THE COUSTET. Sir R. Vyvyan, who had given the Sibthorp presented a Petibor notice of moving that the House be called | inhabitants of Sports, is is complaining of the unprecedented state of I Mr. W. Horton said, that he had been distress of the country. The hon. Mem-intrusted with a similar Petition; and as ber said, that though he was glad of the it seemed not at all likely that Governreductions proposed last night, yet he was ment would aid the petitioners in emisure the country would not be satisfied grating to Nova Scotia or Canada, he had with it. He had listened with great at- recommended them to rest satisfied, and tention to what had fallen from the right to hope all kinds of relief from the prohon. Gentleman last night, but remem- posed abandonment of the duty on Beer. bering the promises and pledges of the Government, he was disappointed at the smallness of the reductions. It was to him the old story, Parturiunt montes, nascitur ridiculus mus. He did not altogether blame the Chancellor of the Exchequer, for he did not think that an angel in his situation could satisfy all the contending claimants on his favours. He must, however, repeat, that the reductions he had proposed would neither relieve the public distress nor satisfy the public expectations. Looking at the extent of our distress, considering that all the causes of it were yet in active operation, there being no chance that they would be removed, seeing our manufacturers, in a great measure, unemployed, our shipping lying idle, seeing too, the vast extent of our useless expenditure; officers being paid great sums who performed all their duties by deputy; seeing that this system had been increasing for years, without any hope of arresting its progress, he did not, and he could not, look for any reductions in taxation corresponding to the great distress and just expectations of the industrious classes. He believed, however, relief could not long with safety be withheld, for if the wishes of the people were not attended to in that House, their voices would be heard in another place where it would be certain to be obeyed. Petition read and laid on the Table. Mr. Hume presented a Petition from Irvine, representing the severe suffering of the hand-loom weavers, who, by labour of sixteen hours per day, were only able to earn on an average 3s. 6d. per week. They complained, too, of being compelled to emigrate to a foreign country, when they thought they ought to be protected in their own. It would give them relief to let in foreign corn, and it would give employment to thousands who were without any occupation. He hoped that these subjects would be taken into serious consideration by his Majesty's Ministers. If no other relief could be given them, they prayed that they might be assisted to emigrate to some of the colonies. Lord Nugent presented a Petition, with the same prayer, from Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, which also prayed for Parliamentary Reform. He would say nothing of distress in other places, but he could venture to assert that in Buckinghamshire it was very severe. The graziers and dairy farmers there were almost ruined, and if they paid rent at all, it was really paid out of their capital, for they were making no profit. The price at which they could sell their commodities did not pay for the expense of producing them. The petitioners did not pretend to assign the cause for their distress, they left that to the House, and they looked to its wisdom to obtain relief. The noble Lord expressed his confidence that the remission of taxes announced last night would be received with the greatest joy in the country, and that the people would feel grateful for the manner in which Parliament began to sympathise with their distresses. petitioners did not desire to see a return of famine prices, but they desired a further reduction of taxation. He did not think that could take place without also reducing our establishments, and it became with him a serious question how long they could be maintained at their present extent. The petitioners also prayed for a reform in Parliament on the fair principle, that as the House held the purse of the people, its Members ought to be chosen by them. The Mr. Slaney observed, that Aylesbury, which ought to be one of the richest and most flourishing places in the southern parts of England, was suffering, at present, distress which had but few precedents at former periods. This, as well here as elsewhere, was, in his opinion, in a great degree attributable to the improper administration of the Poor-laws. Lord Nugent ascribed the existing distress to the improvidence which had been manifested at the time of high prices, during which the labourers were not given wages in just proportion to the price of the produce received by their employers. Some hon. Members had expressed an opinion, that the repeal of the Beer-tax which was last night announced, would be found inadequate to relieve the distresses of the people; but in this he must differ from them, as he knew that it would be productive of very considerable relief in the part of the country with which he was connected. Sir M. W. Ridley, in observing on the Petition, took occasion to remark, that the noble Lord ought to have commenced by recommending reform to his own constituents before he came down and recommended reforms in Parliament. Lord Nugent replied, that such a suggestion would have come with a better grace from any other hon. Member than from him. The Petition to lie on the Table. Mr. Sadler presented a similar Petition complaining of distress from Leeds, signed by 1500 persons, many of whom, he said, were heads of families. He observed, that to those the remark of the hon. Member opposite, respecting the abuse of the Poor-laws, did not apply. They had nothing to do with the administration of the Poor-laws though they profited by them, for he did not know how they could have subsisted without the relief given them by the Poor-laws. Mr. Slaney said, his remark was applied to the agricultural, not the manufacturing districts. To be printed. Mr. Cartwright rose, to present a Petition from the county of Northampton, complaining of general distress, and praying for general relief. The petition bore the signature of the High Sheriff; and as his, of course it must be received; but it certainly proceeded from a county meeting. At that meeting another petition was proposed, which included a prayer for parliamentary reform. The two petitions were put to the meeting; and the High Sheriff, upon a show of hands, decided that the majority was in favour of that now in his hand. He would not conceal that a strong feeling existed that the decision on the show of hands was erroneous. He would not say whether the High Sheriff was right or wrong; but this he would say, that he never saw more good feeling or good temper than prevailed during that meeting; and he had no doubt that those who attended would receive the announcement recently made by the Government on the subject of taxation most gratefully; for the relief was calculated peculiarly to benefit the poor. The Lord Althorp said, no doubt the petition was the petition of the High Sheriff. High Sheriff persuaded himself that it was the petition of the meeting; but there were not two persons present who agreed with him in that opinion. Some of those immediately near the High Sheriff might have held up their hands in favour of the petition; but the great mass of those in the hall were against it; amongst whom were one banker, several clergymen, and others of much respectability. He had great satisfaction in thinking that so respectable a meeting of his constituents had declared in favour of parliamentary reform. Petition to be printed. Mr. Otway Cave, in presenting a Petition from Liecester, signed by 1500 persons complaining of distress, observed, that the proposed reduction of the Beerduties would only be prospectively beneficial, while the distress of which the petitioners complained was presently urgent, and demanded instant relief. To shew how necessary it was that the House should do something to maintain its reputation among the people, he would mention one fact, which he lately witnessed. At a public meeting, held at Leicester, and presided over by a gentleman who was formerly its representative, it was debated whether a petition should be sent to the House of Commons, and it was argued that it was of no use to present petitions to the House, that it had not the will, if it had the power, to relieve the people, and that it had of late betrayed such a total disregard of the people's petitions that it was only a waste of time to appeal to it, which were the sentiments of a great many persons, and by that the House might see how fast it was sinking in public estimation. He did not mean to say that he shared those sentiments, but he could assure the House, that if it did not attend to the wishes and prayers of the people, they would put themselves under leaders who at least would have the appearance of attending to their wants. Petition laid on the Table. Mr. Heathcote, in presenting a Petition from Boston, Lincolnshire, also complaining of distress, and signed by nearly 700 persons, stated, that since the alteration of the tax on wool, land in that neigh bourhood, had fallen greatly in value, as well as all stock; so that the graziers and farmers could hardly obtain a living. Indeed these, he said, were the most suffering classes in the community, particularly the graziers. In common, however, with all classes, they would hear, he was sure, with satisfaction, of the substantial relief about to be afforded them. Mr. Irving said, he believed that the distress, of which so many petitions complained, was fast disappearing. Indeed he knew, from excellent authority, that at present there was more work at Leeds than there had been for many years. Never was trade there more active, and he did not believe there was one man who might not find employment. Orders, too, had lately been received there, which would keep the people continually employed for some time. He wished, distinctly and positively to state, because a different representation had lately been given by the hon. Member for Newark, that the trade of Leeds was now brisker than it had been for many years. For some of our manufactures there was at present a greater demand than there had been at any former period. Lord Rancliffe said, he was sorry that he could not corroborate the pleasing statements of the last speaker, but on the contrary, as far as Nottinghamshire was concerned, he must bear his testimony to the existence of great distress; but he must, at the same time, express his thankfulness to the Government for what it had done, adding, that the people relied on his Majesty's Government, and on the wisdom of Parliament. Mr. Heathcote said, he also regretted that he could not confirm the hon. Member's statement. At Boston there was not employment for one-third of the population, and the distress was unexampled. PUBLIC DISTRESS. THE MALT TRADE.] Lord John Russell presented a Petition from Dursley, complaining of great distress, and asking for relief. Of 4,000 inhabitants, 1,500 were receiving support from the parish. The noble Lord stated his concurrence with what had fallen last night from the hon. Member for Northampton, as to the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He admitted that the reduction of taxation had been judicious; but he would recommend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to revise the whole system of taxation, with a view of adapting duties which had been enormously raised during a depreciated currency, to the present raised value of money. He would likewise take that opportunity of asking the right hon. Gentleman opposite, a question relative to the restrictions on the Malt-trade. He would ask, what were his intentions, as he proposed to make no alterations in the Malt-duties, with respect to alleviating the burthen of restrictions under which the trade laboured. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had received, during last year, a number of communications from gentlemen to whom the Maltsters had intrusted their interests. He had consented that those gentlemen should have an interview with the Commissioners of the Excise, with the intention of providing such regulations as, without injuring the Revenue, would give relief to the trade. They had come to an agreement, and a bill had been prepared accordingly, which he had not yet been able to introduce into Parliament, from the pressure of business. He would, however, lose no time in giving effect to those arrangements which, he understood, would be satisfactory to the parties concerned. Mr. Portman, as a party to the arrangement, hoped that the Bill would soon be introduced. He had lately seen several Maltsters on the subject, who complained very much of these restrictions, but though he wished the Bill to pass as soon as possible, he hoped that it would be printed and circulated some time before it was passed through that House. He wished that the parties interested in it should have an opportunity of examining it before it became a law. Mr. Brownlow took that opportunity of reminding the Chancellor of the Exchequer of petitions he had frequently presented, praying that the duties on Irish and Scotch Malt might be equalized. The Chancellor of the Exchequer was understood to assent to the suggestion of the hon. Member. Mr. Slaney wished that the opportunity might be taken to revise the whole of the laws regulating the Maltster's business. Mr. Bransby Cooper said, that he hoped, if these laws were to be altered, that they would be arranged to the satisfaction of all parties. He would take that opportunity of expressing his conviction, that the measures last night proposed by the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, would afford the country considerable relief. Mr. Estcourt, having also a Petition to present from Dursley, took that opportunity of confirming the statement concerning the distress in that town made by the noble Lord. Besides the 1,500 persons mentioned as receiving relief, 1,000 others were unable to contribute to their support. Of seven factories, three were entirely shut up, and two were only working one day in three. There was another town in the neighbourhood equally distressed; he doubted if there were that prosperity in the woollen manufacture mentioned by the hon. Member for Bramber, and heartily wished it were true of the distressed people of Gloucestershire. It certainly was not the case among the petitioners; for, of a population of 5,000, 3,500 were receiving relief. Mr. Irving said, he could not, of course, deny the hon. Member's statements, but he was disposed to think that the cause of distress in Gloucestershire was, that the manufacture of woollen cloth was migrating from thence, and from the west of England, into Yorkshire, principally on account of the cheapness of coal in the latter. In the same manner, the silk manufacture was emigrating from Spitalfields to the country. For this cause of distress he did not think there was any relief; at the same time, he repeated that the manufacture of cloth at Leeds was very brisk, and gave employment to a great many persons. Mr. Dickenson knew that the reverse was the case in the west of England, where trade was as bad as possible. He had received, that day, a letter from a manufacturer, stating, that it was of no use embarking capital in business, and that he meant to withdraw from the trade as soon as he could. Mr. Cripps said, that the information he had received was of the same character; and repeated, that many parishes were in such a state that they could not possibly support their own poor, and must be assisted. He was aware that the manufactures of the country were travelling to the north, and he should be glad to learn that the workmen went with them; and that they could anywhere find employment. Whatever might be said of the improvement of trade elsewhere, he knew that there was no improvement in Gloucestershire. It was impossible that VOL. XXIII. The things could remain as they were. number of persons seeking relief was greater than could be relieved. Mr. Slaney was prepared to answer the statements of the hon. Member, but he would delay doing so till the proper period. Mr. Cutlar Fergusson thought it would be more satisfactory to the House if the hon. Member for Bramber also stated that the manufacturers who were doing so much work were making adequate profits, and that the men were obtaining good wages. He knew, from a very correct source, that the wages of the manufacturer in England were not above 4s. 6d. per week. In the west of Scotland, where the distress was not so great as in England, the wages were not above 5s. per week. He wished to take that opportunity of correcting a mistake which had got abroad, as to what he had stated on a former evening. He had never said, as had been supposed, that there was no distress in Scotland. What he stated was, that the distress among the agricultural labourers in Scotland was not equal to that among the same description of persons in England; but he believed that the distress among the landowners and farmers was quite equal to that of the land-owners and farmers of England, if not greater. In neither country were the wages of labour adequate to subsist the labourer, and the demand for his services was only partial and fluctuating. Mr. W. Whitmore deprecated such desultory remarks on presenting a petition, when there was a motion on the subject to be brought forward that evening. General Gascoyne thought the hon. Member for Bramber's statements were contradicted by the Petitions of the people then lying on the Table of the House. The hon. Member being without constituents, took it on himself to represent an unrepresented place. He had always a letter or two in his pocket from some town which had no representative to contradict his allegations. Whatever that hon. Member might say, he knew that turn which way he would, he heard complaints of distress sufficient to warrant him in saying, that the hon. Member's statements were not correct as a representation of the general state of the country. Mr. Irving explained, and reiterated his statements, affirming that his information was as good as that of any other hon. Member. |