might have made man with less of folly, which would have dissolved the argument. He would only say a word as to the proposed remedy by exporting part of the population. When the numbers had been | thus thinned in Ireland, for instance, what security was there that the vacuum would not be soon supplied? and certainly there was no country of the world that had a better reputation than Ireland for multiplying the species with rapidity. Sir F. Burdett said, if the right hon. Mover had not yet made much way in his project, he had at least succeeded to the extent of persuading the House that the subject was worth consideration. Nevertheless, he could not yet encourage him with the expectation of a beneficial or speedy result. He wished, on that occasion, particularly to avoid inquiring how far the alterations in the currency might have occasioned the redundant population; and he should, therefore, only say, generally, that on this point he was inclined to agree with his right hon. friend. As to filling the vacuum to be occasioned by emigration, it seemed to him that nothing was more easy than to prevent a rapid increase, when once the numbers were thinned. In the same way, it was easy at any time to stimulate population, but not so easy to revocare gradum, and to lessen it after it had been so stimulated. There was the difficulty; and hence arose the question, what was to be done with the present superabundant population? The existence of that superabundance must, for a time, produce great suffering and misery; and whether it were or were not the fault of the legislature, there the people were, and the country was bound to provide for them, and could not allow them to starve. The great feature of the subject was Ireland-get rid of what he might call the annual Irish invasion-of the competition of the Irish peasantry with the labourers of England-and the latter would be left in comparatively easy and comfortable circumstances. The Irish were an honest and an industrious people, and they had a full right to bring their labour to the best market. While the Irish peasant could obtain more for his labour here than in his own country, he must and would come; and the necessary consequence was, that the English peasant was reduced very nearly to the same condition as the Irish peasant. Thus in truth, and in fact, the English country gentleman had his estates burthened to provide for the poor of Ireland. In Berkshire, the mere passing of the Irish poor in a single year had cost from 1,2007. to 1,4007. The question was, could any effectual remedy be found for this great evil? He was sorry his right hon. friend had involved himself in such a complication of Resolutions, containing many positions upon which no two men perhaps could be found to agree: the more his right hon. friend had advanced into his subject, the more comprehensive his views seemed to be; and it would have been far better if he had limited himself to his original general and simple propositionthat it was expedient to send part of the redundant population to the colonies. As the Motion now stood, it could lead to no beneficial practical result-whereas, if his right hon. friend had brought in a bill to carry his intentions into effect, a substantive proposition would have been made, upon which the legislature would have been called upon to decide. At present the estates of Irish gentlemen were hot-beds of population, and this was an evil that loudly called for remedy. In order that England might continue the sphere of laudable enterprise, he wished to get rid of those who were merely burthensome; they might be removed with advantage to all parties to some of our magnificent colonies, the chief difficulty being to determine, of the good, which were the best. The exportation of a comparatively small number would have a great effect upon those who were left behind; as a small overplus of any commodity depreciated it greatly, so small overplus of population caused an accumulation of misery. The subject of relief could be no topic of dispute-all were anxious to accomplish one end; amicable discussion might lead to the most beneficial results, and Ministers would, he was sure, be grateful for any useful suggestions. He would confine the view of the House simply to the point, whether it were not possible to remove to the colonies a large portion of the population of Ireland, and of Ireland alone? In that country there were no poor-rates; and as the present management of Irish estates produced the evil, a rate, not in the nature of a poor-rate, might perhaps be levied upon them, to aid in the accomplishment of the object. He could not agree with his hon. friend (Mr. J. Smith), that to give every poor man an acre of ground would remedy the evil. First, how would it be possible to give every poor man an acre of ground? and secondly, if it were given, was not that the very system that had prevailed in Ireland, and which had occasioned the redundant population? What had happened in Ireland would then happen in England; and the mischief, instead of being amended, would be increased. There were two ways by which the lower orders might be benefitted. 1st. By giving them higher wages; 2nd. by reducing their numbers-though the second was, in fact, only another mode of accomplishing the first. Then as to the introduction of machinery, it was undoubtedly true, that it might, for a time, throw hands out of employ, but in the end the increase of the branch of trade in which machinery was used would require the active exertions of many more men than had in the outset been temporarily injured. When he talked of a rate for Ireland, he was ready to admit that the subject deserved grave consideration: colonization must be attended with a heavy expense; but the present state of the poor also caused an enormous expense, and the expense of emigration would not be great if those parishes that were relieved contributed their due share towards the attainment of relief. From the effect of those contributions the parties would soon recover when once the superabundant population was removed. He hoped that his right hon. friend would not press his Motion to a division, because it would lead to no beneficial practical result. Sir G. Murray said, he should only offer a few observations, in consequence chiefly of what had fallen from the hon. Baronet, to whom he had listened now, as always, with great satisfaction. He concurred entirely with what his right hon. friend (Mr. W. Horton) had said on the subject of emigration to the colonies: that opinion was not new to him, for he had entertained it when he was in the Canadas, and he had stated it in a paper he then drew up, on a means of forming a better defence for those provinces. He thought now, as he had thought then, that the only certain and permanent means of providing for the defence of the Canadas was by directing to them a stream of population from the mother country, attached to her interests, and resolved to maintain her possessions. The difficulty of holding out much encouragement on the subject of emigration arose from the strong prevailing disposition in favour of it. If much encouragement were given, that disposition would be increased to a dangerous, or at least to an injurious extent. With a view practically to promote this benefit, he had turned his mind with great attention to the question, and the mode in which he thought the object might be obtained was this:-First, by establishing in the colonies themselves a well-considéred system, with reference to the grant of land, and then by degrees, when that system was brought to maturity, to establish in some of our ports, agents to whom persons desirous of sending out emigrants might address themselves, in order to facilitate or provide passages, and to make those arrangements in detail which landed proprietors, societies, or parishes, would find it difficult to make themselves. But in considering this plan, it had always appeared to him impracticable for the country to go to any great expense in order to convey emigrants, to our North American Colonies, for instance. Therefore, in order to give a commencement to the plan, when applied to, he had held out that, on the arrival of the emigrants in the provinces, they would receive land free from any expense but the usual fees on making the grant. The outline of the plan was this:-That those who came out with money ready to make purchases of land, should be provided with it; that those who on coming out required no assistance, but, at the same time, were not able to pay for the land, should have it on discharging the ordinary fees for the survey, &c.; a third class were those who came out and required aid; besides having their land free of any expense, it was doubtful whether it might not be fit to give them assistance in the first instance in the erection of loghouses. Whatever was done, caution was necessary, or such a tide of population might be poured into the provinces as would overflow the country, and be attended with great inconvenience. stated these views to show that he had not neglected the important subject, and he would only add one word as to the invasion from Ireland of which the hon. Baronet had spoken: that was, that in his opinion, the most certain, and he might say, the most legitimate mode, of getting rid of that evil was, by promoting the prosperity of Ireland. He would conclude by merely adverting to what he had already He done to carry into effect a plan of emigration. The Duke of Hamilton had applied to him on behalf of some persons who wished to emigrate from his estates: land had been given them for the mere expense of the survey-the settlers were sent out, and they had been provided for to their entire satisfaction. A similar application had been made by the hon. Member for Ludgershall with reference to emigration from Ireland, who was informed that he (Sir G. Murray) was ready to act on the same principles that had guided him with respect to the settlers from the estates of the Duke of Hamilton. Mr. Baring had always been of opinion, from the time he was a member of the Committee, that relief might be given by emigration, and it was the interest of parishes in the southern parts of the kingdom, which were suffering so severely from the pressure of the poor-rates, to contribute to this desirable end. With respect to the fact of the redundancy of our population, he wondered how any Gentleman could entertain a doubt upon it. Experience had proved that the theory of Mr. Malthus was correct. Those who in this country were in a state of abject pauperism, in the colonies would be in a condition of comparative comfort. Only two remedies worth consideration had been suggested: -the one was Emigration, and the other was an alteration of the Poor-laws, reverting to what had been properly called a sound interpretation of that system of enactments. An union of these remedies might perhaps be effected. Let relief be refused to the able-bodied, but there must be at the same time the means of conveying them to the colonies. This arrangement would remove all the dangers apprehended from a transition from the present system of parish relief to that of refusing relief to the able-bodied. If the poor-rates were applied only to relieve the aged and infirm, and an opportunity were afforded to the young and able-bodied to proceed to the colonies, much might be accomplished for the benefit of this kingdom. He thought, therefore, that the members of the legislature ought to make up their minds whether they would or would not try the experiment of revising the poor-laws, instead of having every year a debate upon the subject, which debate always ended in nothing. He, for one, was ready to make the experiment; but he should make it with greater confidence if, at the same time, the surplus population could be provided for by emigration. Colonel O'Grady denied that in Ireland there was a redundant population, if the waste land were brought into a proper state of tillage; and he maintained that England had no right to complain of what was termed the Irish invasion, because the absentee nobility and gentry spent in this country much more than the Irish peasantry took away. Lord Althorp thought a Committee of the whole House-not for the purpose of examining witnesses, for that would be absurd, but for the purposes of discussion-might be attended with very beneficial effects. He thought also that no new measure ought to be introduced affecting the state of the people, or applying to the administration of the poor-laws which would not have the effect of making those who contracted imprudent marriages, at an early period of life, find themselves in a worse situation than if they had exercised a greater degree of foresight and discretion. Mr. A. Baring explained, that he was quite averse from returning to the old system. Mr. Slaney observed, that the great principle of the old system was to find employment for the able-bodied labourer. Mr. Hume said, that he disapproved of charging emigrants any thing for land. The county ought rather to be at some expense to remove the paupers, than to throw impediments in the way, by seizing on the land, and not allowing it to be occupied unless its fees and exactions were paid. Sir George Murray said, he had given directions to diminish the fees as much as possible. It was his wish to diminish the impediments to emigration. Mr. W. Horton rose to reply. He said it was the duty of the House to assert distinctly whether or not it were prepared to relieve the country from the effects of that redundant population now pressing upon its resources. It was indisputable that the population of Ireland, as compared with the demand for labour, was prodigiously redundant, and he saw no means of relief from that redundancy that could be at all considered effectual except those which he had recommended, and which he should feel it his duty to continue to recommend, notwithstanding the apathy with which they appeared to be received. It was in vain to talk of the Colonial Se cretary affording facilities for emigration he had not sufficient funds at his disposal. | plation of the advisers of the Crown, He was recommended to bring in bills, at the time that Speech was pronounced; which he could very easily do, but they and it was submitted to the House would prove of little use, unless money with the view of carrying his Majesty's were provided to carry their provisions into gracious recommendation into effect in effect. Bills without money were but so that matter. The proposition which he much waste paper. The House might had to submit to the House naturally rest assured that 1,000,000l. applied to divided itself into parts-the first, such the purposes of emigration would do more enactments as might be necessary for good than any reduction of taxation which assimilating the administration of justice could possibly be effected. He knew the under the Court of Great Session of House received with distaste much of what Chester, and in the principality of Wales, he thought it his duty to say upon that to the administration of justice in Engsubject; but he should persevere-more land; and, secondly, such alteration in for the effect that might be produced out the regulations of the English Courts as of doors, than for any thing he hoped to might be necessary for that purpose— effect within the walls of that House. He arising out of these, there would be some hoped that the influence from without incidental alterations necessary for effectwould urge forward some energetic means ing the due dispatch of business, and for for ridding the country of the incubus of rendering the practice of the courts unipopulation by which it was oppressed form and regular. The administration of means for spreading English feelings and justice throughout England and Wales English institutions over the fertile plains was confided to twenty judges-twelve in of the new world. He should feel great England, eight in Wales-of course he pleasure in consenting to withdraw his pre- meant the administration of the Common sent motion for a committee, but he was Law. The first step would be, to reduce determined soon again to bring the subject that number to fifteen; thereby removing under the consideration of the House, either five from our judicial establishment. Not by moving a resolution, or by introducing only would these appointments be an ultia bill, when he should take the sense of mate saving to the country, but the offices the House upon a distinct question, whether attached to several of the courts would or not it would look at the difficulties of also be removed. He mentioned this in the country with a view to provide an justice to Government, which, in consentadequate remedy for the existing evil.- ing to forego so large a share of patronage Motion withdrawn. as this would involve, most clearly evinced that its only object in the proposed alterations was the benefit of the community. With respect to the number of judges, it was well known that, at different periods, it varied considerably. At one time it was eighteen, at others fifteen, sixteen, and seventeen, but, for the last 100, or, he might say, 130 years, the number had been limited to twelve for England; and it was remarkable that this comparatively small number had despatched a greater share of public business than was performed by the judges of any other country in the world. The way in which he should propose the addition to the present number in England would be to add one to each of the Common Law courts. One of the five of which each court would then consist would have to sit at chambers, take bail, and do the other business out of court, which one of the judges in each court now usually performed in Term. It would be a matter of regulation amongst the judges themselves, which of them WELSH JUDICATURE. ADMINISTRATION OF THE LAW.] The Attorney General, after adverting to the lateness of the hour, said, he intended as shortly as possible to call the attention of the House to a Motion of his which stood on the paper, the object of which was, to introduce a Bill for the better Administration of Justice in Wales, and which must be accompanied by some further measure, such as that House might deem necessary, in respect of the procedure of the English Courts of Common Law. He also intended to propose some additional regulations in the English Courts, which would certainly not be required by anything necessary to the Welsh Judicature; but which, he conceived, would in itself be found highly expedient and advantageous. Alterations of that nature had been alluded to in the Speech from the Throne; and the present, he had to inform the House, was one of the measures in contem been introduced by the noble and learned Lord for facilitating the despatch of business in the courts had not succeeded. The first measure was soon after repealed, and the second,-that for enabling three of the judges to sit in Banco out of the Term to discharge the arrear of Term business, was also unsuccessful. Indeed, it could not be otherwise; for it was a court without a bar and without an audience, and was not looked to by the public with that feeling of satisfaction which was so necessary to bring to it the business which was taken to the court in Term. The changes which he should propose would be-first, that Michaelmas Term should begin on the 2nd of November, and end on the 24th. This would give time for the discharge of nisi prius business for one month up to Christmas. There would then be a short vacation until the commencement of Hilary Term, which would begin on the 8th of January, and end on the 28th. By this arrangement two days which, by Act of Parliament, were dies non in our law courts, would be excluded, and so much saved for the business of the Term. He would limit the sitting after Hilary Term to one month, as about that time the circuits would begin. Generally speaking, the circuits were at an end the first week in April: he would therefore fix Easter Term for the 15th of that month, and, after sitting for twenty-four days, there would be a longer time allowed, as an interval between Easter and Trinity, than at present. Of this Term he would allow only one week for the sitting of the court. He also proposed that the court should sit only for a month after Trinity, which would leave about two months from the circuits to the Michaelmas Term. There were other points in the Bill to which he would not then advert, which would give greater facilities to the judges for transacting business in chambers, and also for trying causes, by which greater expedition would be ensured. It would be a most important thing to advance a step towards some equalization of the business of the different courts. It was not his intention to propose any alteration in the forms of business in the courtany change which it might be necessary to make in this way would be the subject of separate legislative enactment; but one point which his Bill embraced he did not wish to pass over. This point was, that there should be no arrest on mesne process should attend to the chamber business in the Term; but it was the intention of the bill that only three puisne judges should sit at one time with the chief judge in each court, the number of four having been found, from long experience, to be that which was most convenient, and to which, as having been long accustomed to it, the public looked with the greatest satisfaction. It was also intended that while the four judges sat in Banco, the other judge should sit at Nisi Prius, which would have the good effect of facilitating the despatch of business, and also prevent the necessity of the chief judge of the respective courts, who usually took the nisi prius cases, leaving the court on certain days in Term, thereby often occasioning much delay to the business of Term. In this way alone there would be a saving of two days in each Term. The Bill would also propose an alteration with respect to the length of the Terms. At present some inconvenience was felt from the periods at which they commenced. Michaelmas Term began on the 6th of November, and ended on the 29th; Hilary began on the 23rd of January, and ended on the 12th of February; Easter began this year on the 28th of April, and ended on the 24th of May; and Trinity, on the 11th of June, and ended the 30th. The time for holding Easter Term was, of course, variable, as it began on the Wednesday fortnight after Easter day. When he was first acquainted with the practice of Westminster Hall, a much longer time was allowed for vacation, and that before the Michaelmas Term was much longer than at present; but for the last ten years the attention which barristers were obliged to give, owing to the increased number of days during which the courts sat, left too little time for relaxation, and for that which was even more important to the profession than relaxation, he meant the time necessary for study. In stating this, he of course meant to cast no imputation on the noble and learned Judge who presided in the Court to which he more particularly alluded. No man could feel a greater respect for that noble Lord than he did, and no man was more impressed with the constant and unremitting attention which he gave to business, even to the risk of his own health; yet with the great attention which he bestowed, the business of the court had got into arrear, and that arrear was on the increase. The two measures which had |