all subjects which the House would have | jesty's Ministers? If they had been aware presently to discuss; and he might also of it before, why did they neglect to alter add, the Corn question, as it had been an- it until the present Session; or did they nounced that it would shortly be brought mean to allege that the discovery and reformbefore them; but on all those important ation were precisely coincident in point of topics they must remain silent and suspend time? It was but fair to infer that what their rightful powers, if they appointed this was true of the Beer and Leather taxes Committee. He was not favourable to any might be true of many others, in which proposition which went to take so momen- case it was not unlikely that they were tous a charge from the responsible hands of now paying 12,000,000l. a year, which Ministers, in order to vest it in an irre- never went to the support of their national sponsible body like a committee. expenses. The noble Lord concluded with deprecating the assumption that those who voted with the hon. member for Dover were necessarily friends to the imposition of a Property-tax. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that the relief of 5,000,000l. which he had stated would result from the abolition of the Beer-tax, supposing the opening of the trade and the removal of all restrictions as to the sale of Beer. Lord Palmerston, in explanation, said, that was what he meant to imply. The restrictions on the trade were the consequence of the tax. Viscount Palmerston said, he should merely, at that late hour, offer a few remarks in explanation of the grounds on which he intended to vote in support of the present Motion. He was the more desirous to do so, as he stood in a peculiar and singular situation, according to the opinion expressed by his right hon. friend, the Secretary for the Home Department. That right hon. Gentleman had observed that no person spoke in favour of the Motion before the House, who did not also profess himself favourable to a Property-tax. He, however, was an exception amongst those who should so vote, as he did not desire to Mr. P. Thomson briefly replied. He recommend a Property-tax. Nay more, the complained that those hon. Members who bias of his mind was against the im- followed him in opposition to his Motion position of such a tax as a substitute for left out of consideration the real merits of those upon articles of consumption. If it what he said, and rested their objections were only to affect the rent of land, it must upon inferences as to the object of his Monecessarily be partial and heavy upon those tion which he had never intended to draw. to whose prejudice it operated. If it were They never stated that his proposal would imposed on the profits of capital, it would not prove beneficial, but confined themleave the country nearly in the same dis- selves to appealing to the feelings of those tress which was prevalent at present. He who were known to be opposed to a Proshould support the Motion for a committee perty-tax, which it formed no part of his under the hope that it might ascertain to plan to propose. It was not his wish to what extent the inconvenience attendant delegate the powers of the House to a on raising the existing taxes could be Committee. All he asked was for an opabated, or whether the system of inquisito-portunity to get information on the subrial inspection could not be entirely abolish-ject of taxation, which would be useful in ed. It had been justly said, that the taxes directing the House in its future proceedon production were ultimately on consump-ings as to what taxes were best to be contion; but passing by that part of the tinued or repealed. subject altogether, he thought that the able exposition of the manner of levying taxes at present adopted, which had been made by the hon. member for Dover, ought of itself to induce the House to accede to his proposition. Indeed, the recent statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer tended much to the same effect, and it was now high time to institute an inquiry for the purpose of deciding whether he had adduced solitary instances of mismanagement in the important matter of taxation. When, he asked, had the inexpediency of the present mode of taxation been revealed to his Ma The House then divided- List of the Minority. Anson, Colonel Blandford, Marquis Bankes, H. Clifton, Lord Cholmeley, M. J. Cavendish, H. Cavendish, C. Cavendish, W. Canning, Hon. S. Calthorpe, Hon. A, Dickinson, W. Ewart, W. Ebrington, Lord Fazakerley, J. N. Fortescue, Hon. G. Fyler, T. B. Grant, Hon. C. Grant, R. Guise, Sir B. W. Howick, Lord Hobhouse, J. C. Huskisson, rt. hon. W. Portman, E. B. Poyntz, W. S. Protheroe, E. Phillimore, Dr. Russell, Lord J. Rumbold, C. E. Rice, T. S. Robinson, G. R. Stanley, E. Stanley, Lord Smith, V. Sanderson, Viscount Townshend, Lord C. Tomes, J. Uxbridge, Lord Villiers, T. H. Warburton, H. Wood, C. Wilson, Sir R. Webb, Colonel Wilbraham, G. Warrender, Sir G. TELLERS. Althorp, Lord Thomson, C. P. Lester, B. Lamb, hon. G. HOUSE OF LORDS. PAIRED OFF Robarts, A. W. Marjoribanks, S. Phillips, Sir G. Beaumont, T. Friday, March 26. by them upon the consumers of bread amounted to 10,500,000l.] By the Earl of RADNOR, complaining of Distress, from the county of Denbigh:-By the Earl of CARNARVON, to the same effect, from Holywell; and by Earl STANHOPE from Heirderwell, in the North Riding of Yorkshire, praying a continuation of the Bounty on Fisheries. JEWS-PETITION.] The Earl of Limerick presented a Petition from a beneficed clergyman of the Church of England, Isaac Nicholson, the Vicar of Great Paxton, Huntingdonshire, praying for the removal of all Civil Disabilities affecting the Jews on account of their religion. Such a Petition, said the noble Lord, was rather singular, coming from such a quarter; but though he did not concur with the Petitioner in his prayer, yet the rev. gentleman was so respectable that he could not but lay it before their Lordships. The Petitioner stated, that the Holy Scriptures were full of prophecies concerning the Jews, and he thought that the time was approaching when many of those prophecies were about to be fulfilled, and he thought the Legislature was bound to do every thing to promote their conversion to Christianity. FOREIGN FLOUR-PETITION.] The Earl of Malmesbury, from Manufacturers of Flour in and near London, praying for better protection against the importation of Foreign Flour. They stated that flour might now be introduced at a MINUTES.] The Earl of ROSSLYN moved that the Standing much lower rate of duty than foreign Order (No. 210) respecting Private Bills for the establishment of Joint-Stock Companies be read. [The noble Lord said, that certain exceptions had been made in that Order, and he should move on Monday to have them extended to Joint-Stock Companies for making quays or landing places to markets.] Lord ALTHORP brought up from the Commons the Evidence taken on the charge of Bribery against East Retford, which, on the Motion of the Marquis of SALISBURY, was Ordered to be Printed. Sir A. GRANT brought up from the Commons a Copy of the Report of the Committee to which had been referred the 18th Report of the Commissioners of Judicial Inquiry, and the Depositions of Sir Jonah Barrington, Judge of the Admiralty Court in Ireland, and certain other Papers relating to the discharge of his judicial duties.-To be Printed. Sir A. GRANT brought up from the Commons the Annual Indemnity Bill-Read a first time. Petitions Presented. By Lord KING, from Bridport, for a Revision of the Criminal Code, with a view to the Abolition of punishment by Death for Forgery. By the same noble Lord from the Anti-Bread-Tax Association at Kidderminster, complaining of the effects of the Corn-laws upon the Poor. [He believed that the Petitioners somewhat exaggerated the effects of these laws, when they stated that the tax raised corn, and they prayed an alteration of the law in that respect. The noble Earl adverted to a petition presented from Millers on a former occasion, and recently reallowed to grind foreign wheat in bond for peated in another place, praying to be allowed to grind foreign wheat in bond for exportation, and hoped that the Government would not permit such an experiment again to be tried, as it would open the door to great frauds. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Friday, March 26. MINUTES.] Returns Ordered. On the Motion of Sir J. NEWPORT, for a detailed Account of 4,302. 4s. received by the Board of First Fruits in Ireland during the last ten years, as the whole amount of First Fruits in that period, specifying the several benefices and dignities which had paid First Fruits, and the amount received from each: Also, the quantity of Butter exported from Ireland to England during the years 1827, 1828, and 1829, distinguishing the Ports of Export and Import. Petitions Presented. Against the Renewal of the East India Company's Charter by Mr. MUNDY, from Aston, Normanton, and fifteen other places in the county of Derby. By Mr. LITTLETON, from the Chamber of Commerce and Manufactories in the Staffordshire Potteries, from | likely to succeed in proportion to the Burslem, and from Bilston, [Places, he said, situated in the midst of a population, which consisted of two hundred thousand persons. He regretted to add that these Petitions complained of great distress, and were accompanied by statements to a similar effect from many parishes in the neighbourhood.] By the Marquis of BLANDFORD, on the subject of Distress, from the inhabitants of Norton.-To be printed. Against the opening of the Beer Trade, by Mr. LITTLETON, from the Licensed Victuallers of Stafford. By Mr. WESTERN from certain Maltsters in Essex, for Protection against the effects on stock in hand of the intended Repeal of the Duty on Beer. By Mr. DUGDALE, from Owners and Occupiers of Land in the neighbourhood of Alcester, in Warwickshire, praying for a Repeal of the Malt and Beer Taxes. [The hon. Gentleman took occasion to rectify a mistake which had occurred as to what he had said on the petition lately presented by his colleague from the gunmakers of Birmingham. He had not said that there was no chance of success to the manufacturers when Government kept a million of arms ready for service; but stated that this great supply rendered the maintenance of the Government establishment for further fabrication unnecessary.] By Sir E. KNATCHBULL from the Hop-Growers in the moval of the Duty on Hops. By Sir F. BURDETT, from Weald of Kent, and from Hawkhurst, praying for a Re Gloucestershire against the Truck System. [The hon. Baronet concurred in the Prayer of the Petition.] By Mr. HUME from the Kidderminster Anti-Bread-Tax Association, No. 1, for a gradual, within ten years, but total Repeal of the Corn-laws. REMOVAL OF THE HAYMARKET-ST. JAMES'S PARK.] Lord Lowther moved that the Report of the Committee on the Hay-market Removal Bill be brought up, on which Mr. Byng objected, on the part of his constituents, to this Bill, which, to the best of his belief, was only calculated to create inconvenience and expense to a large portion of the inhabitants of Westminster and the neighbourhood of the metropolis. Some farmers would have to carry their hay two miles further to the new market, and all would be put to great additional expense in going back with a return load of manure. No practical inconvenience was felt from the present situation of the market; and as the new market would occasion a great deal of inconvenience, he meant to oppose the Bill at every opportunity. He would not however resist bringing up the Report, as the House was so thinly attended, he being convinced that the Bill was the less number of the Members who should be present at its discussion. He would only add, that it would compel the farmers who supplied that market to keep five or six hundred more horses than at present. the unpopularity of the measure was by Lord Lowther observed in reply, that no means so universal amongst the hon. Member's constituents as he would have the House to believe. On the contrary, he apprehended that the suggestion for a removal was generally received with approbation. The reluctance of a few, even although they might lose by the alteration, ought to give way to the general interests of the public. In fact, if partial objections were not in such cases overlooked, all improvements of any kind whatsoever must be prevented. In Birmingham and Sheffield the respective markets had been removed from the centre to the outskirts of those towns, and the change was found to be in every respect advantageous and satisfactory to the inhabitants. What would be thought if it were now proposed to establish the market in St. James's Square, and yet that was more spacious than the Haymarket? In fact, when the market was first established, St. Martin's was really St. Martin's in the Fields, now it was St. Martin's in the Centre of the town, and the situation had become unsuitable to a market. The place whither it was intended to remove this market was not distant more than a mile and a half from the northern districts of the metropolis. The Speaker here interposed, by stating that it was right he should inform the House, before the discussion proceeded farther, that the report of the committee was irregular, not being in accordance with the Standing Order that prescribed the terms in which the Report of a Committee on a private bill ought to be couched. This Report merely set forth that the Standing Orders had been complied with,-that they had heard counsel and made certain amendments, leaving out what was most important,-namely, that "they had examined the allegations in support of the Bill, and found the same to be true." It therefore became necessary that the Report should be recommitted before they could proceed further with the Bill, consistently with the observance of the forms of the House. Mr. Byng remarked, that the promoters of the Bill had not adduced any evidence | committee, said, that though the measure whatever in support of it. he was "about to bring under the consiLord Lowther moved that the Bill be deration of Parliament was, in a financial re-committed, when point of view, of great importance, it would Mr. Hobhouse expressed his concurrence not be necessary for him, in explaining its in what had fallen from the hon. Member | bearings, to trespass at any length on the for Middlesex with respect to the incon- attention of the Committee. His object venience and expense which a great num-was, to relieve the public burthens, by a ber of persons must sustain in conse- reduction of a portion of the public debt. quence of the removal in contemplation. The principle of such a measure was one He should now, however, give notice rela- which needed not in that House any argutive to another subject nearly affecting the ment by way of justification; for it had convenience and accommodation of the in- been stated by Ministers, long before Mr. habitants of the metropolis-that when the Pitt's time, and admitted by those who Bill was brought fairly before the House, succeeded him in the management of the it was his intention to bring under its con- finances of the country, that it was the sideration the proposed obstruction at the duty of Ministers to take advantage of end of Waterloo-place, which precluded every opportunity which the state of the the public from entering St. James's-park public credit afforded of reducing the through the opening, as they had hitherto amount of the national burthens. This so naturally expected. They considered principle had been asserted by Mr. Pitt, the stopping up the passage there as a and would no doubt have been acted upon direct violation of the avowed plan of the by him, but for the eventful war, the exGovernment. tent, duration, and consequences of which, it was impossible for him to foresee. It was, however, as he had stated, always kept in view by those who had succeeded Mr. Hume agreed with the hon. Member for Westminster in objecting to this churlish exclusion of the public where there was no adequate reason for disre-him in office, and, since the peace, had garding their accommodation. He was further of opinion that the House ought not to pass money votes either for the expenses of the Palace or for any other improvement connected with the Park, till this very reasonable demand should be complied with. been carried into practice by them to the extent of relieving the public burthens annually of about 2,000,000l. The period had now arrived for effecting a still further reduction of those burthens, and accordingly he thought it his duty to take advantage of the first fair opportunity for availMr. Hobhouse stated, that his only rea-ing himself of it. He proposed, therefore, son for pursuing the course he did was, because it enabled him to take the earliest opportunity of opposing the obstruction, which was particularly desirable, as the workmen were at present actively employed in stopping up the passage in question. to effect a further reduction, by the conversion of the new 4-per-cent annuities into a new 3-per-cent stock. The circumstances of the country were highly favourable to such a conversion, as a moment's consideration of the rate of interest in the money-market, and of the quantity of capital seeking for a profitable outlay, would convince any hon. Member. Capital to a large amount was laid out on mortgages at 4-per-cent interest, and was now offered, within his own knowledge, for 34When this fact was taken into Mr. Protheroe entertained a similar opinion as to the general inconvenience and disappointment which would be felt in the metropolis if the noble Lord persisted in refusing so reasonable a request. He wished to see the entrance from Waterloo-per-cent. place effected by a double flight of steps consideration, and when the peculiar adinto the Park. The Bill recommitted. vantages which an investment in the public funds afforded were also borne in mind, the House he was sure would not for a moment refuse its sanction to a conversion of the 4 to 3-per-cent stock. It could not be objected that the measure would operate as a breach of contract explicit or implied; for the Act under which the new 4-per-cent annuities were created explicitly that recommended in a pamphlet, in which the subject had been minutely investigated. [The right hon. Gentleman alluded to Mr. Brickwood's pamphlet.] In answer he could say, that it appeared in calculation, that all things considered, 70l. at 5per-cent for forty-two years, was equal to 100l. at 33-per-cent ensured for ten years: and that if the recommendation of the pamphlet had been acted upon, 18,000,000. capital would be sacrificed for 229,0001. per annum; and for a 3s. reduction of present interest, the possibility of a reduction of 10s. in a few years. With this brief explanation of his plan he should proceed to move the Resolutions on which he would found his Bill. He would be happy to afford any hon. Member every further information in his power. He counted on the sanction of the Committee to a Resolution by which the public would save next year 778,000l., and that, too, without at all impairing the means of public credit: on the contrary, its effect would be to add to those means, and thereby to the character and resources of the country. The right hon. Gentleman concluded by stated that that rate would be guaranteed for but seven years—that is, that the Act would be in force for only that period; Government being left at liberty, at the expiration of that term, to act towards the holders of that stock as might appear advantageous to the public. Those seven years had expired, for the Act was passed in 1822, and Ministers deemed it their duty to effect the proposed conversion. He felt, therefore, that no further argument was necessary, so far as the principle of his intended measure was concerned. The only question, then, for the Committee was, what were the terms on which he meant to effect the reduction? Those terms would, he persuaded himself, be found conducive to the public advantage. He proposed to give every holder of 1007. of the 4-per-cents, created by the Act of 1822, who should not signify his dissent, 1007. of a new 3-per-cent stock, and that 31-per cent interest he would guarantee for ten years. He gave this guarantee for so long a period, because he thought that the inducement would be stronger to consent to the conversion he proposed, and he was anxious, on account of its advan-moving the following Resolutions :tages, to make it as extensive as possible. The price at present in the market of the stock he proposed to give was 993-percent exclusive of interest, so that 1007. at 3 was a fair valuation. To those who should express a dissent from these terms, he would give an option of subscribing to a new 5-per-cent stock, not redeemable until the 5th of January, 1873, each holder of 4-per-cents to receive 707. of the 5-percent stock for his 1001. It might be asked, perhaps, why he had not preferred converting all the 4-per-cents into this 5-percent 701. forty-two years stock, as there would accrue a great consequent saving to the public? The answer to the question was contained in the fact, that at least 2-5ths of the holders of the 4-per-cents were trustees of the property of othersthat is, persons responsible for the management of property not their own; so that if they were compelled, without option, to take in lieu of every 1007. 4-per-cents, 701. 5-per-cents, Parliament would be neither more nor less than legalizing an immoral act, by which, for the sake of temporary advantage, a large amount of trustee property might be deteriorated one2. That the interest and dividends paythird. It might also be asked why forty-able in respect of the said New 37. 108. per two years had been fixed upon for the in- Centum Annuities, shall be charged and tended 5-per-cent 701. stock, instead of chargeable upon the Consolidated Fund of "1. That all and every person and persons, bodies politic and corporate, who now is or are, or hereafter may be, interested in, or entitled unto, any part of the National Debt redeemable by law, which now carries an interest after the rate of 41, per Centum per annum, and is usually known by the name of New 47. per Cents,' and which were created in the year 1822, payable at the Bank of England, and payable at the Bank of Ireland, and who shall not signify his, her, or their dissent, in the manner hereinafter mentioned, shall, in lieu of every 1001. of and be entitled to the sum of 1007. in a new such New 41. per Centum Annuities, receive stock, to be called the New 34 per Centum Annuities,' and to carry an interest after the rate of 37. 10s. per centum per annum, and so in proportion for any greater or less amount of such 4 per Centum Annuities; and that the dividends on the said 37. 10s. per Centum Annuities shall be payable halfyearly at the Bank of England, and at the Bank of Ireland, upon the 5th day of January and the 5th day of July in each and every year; and the first half-yearly dividend on the said New 37. 10s. per Centum Annuities shall be payable on the 5th day of January, 1831; and that the said New 3/. 10s. per Centum Annuities shall not be liable to be paid off until the 5th day of January, 1840. |