oil and the English oil as well? No; I stated my only inquiries had been at Dover harbor and of Mr. Wilkins, the lamp manufacturer.

4494. Are you able to state the difference in expense between the exhibition of the Nore light and the Mouse light; the one being the French and the other the sperm oil?

No.

4495. You are not, then, aware that the difference in consumption is twenty per cent. on the French oil compared with the English sperm oil? No; I was not aware of that. I have the direct testimony of Mr. Wilkins and the harbor master of Dover to the contrary.

4496. Can Mr. Wilkins' testimony be equal to the regular log which is kept on board the Nore light, and the log kept on board the other lights, transmitted quarterly to the Trinity House? I am not prepared to say the one is not equally as good as the other, but knowing the expenditure in France for lights is very much less than in England, it seems to me very reasonable to believe that what Mr. Wilkins and the harbor master say is true. The only real comparison would be between the Nore light and the Mouse light, as maintained by government for one year.

4497. Are you aware of the present price of sperm oil? I believe 78. a gallon.

4498. Is it so much? I believe it is; it has been 6s. 8d., and it has been 8s.

4499. Are you aware of the price of rape-seed oil? Three shillings and sixpence, exactly half.

4500. Are you aware it will be necessary to alter all the lamps and machinery for the burning of rape-seed oil as a substitute for sperm? Yes; I am aware it would be necessary to alter the lamps slightly, not to alter the machinery. Mr. Wilkins has told me, that for a trifling expense not worth speaking of, it could be done.

4501. Have you ever burnt it in your family? Never.

4502. With reference to your opinion of the American lights, do you know that Commodore Perry, of the American navy, was sent purposely to England to see whether he could gather anything from the management of the British light system for the improvement of the lights of the United States? I have understood so, and I have no doubt he benefited greatly; and the last report to Congress gives very full reports from naval officers in the United States navy as to the present efficiency of their lights. They have very much improved of late years; but I may state that, although the Americans have taken a leaf out of our book, we must not forget that in 1812 the United States had forty light-houses fitted with parabolic reflectors, when England had only ten. I think the United States have shown a very proper spirit of experimental inquiry; they have used rosin gas for upwards of a year at one of their chief light-houses, that of Christiana in Delaware, and it has succeeded to admiration; and the difference of expense between sperm oil and rosin gas is as fifteen to one; and every one acknowledges the brilliancy is greater.

4503. Chairman.-Have they also burnt lard oil? They have also burnt lard, and I have before me a comparative statement of the cost, which is as follows:

4504. Mr. Chapman.-From the great opportunities you have had, have you seen or heard for the last three or four years of any negligence in the management of the floating lights, so that they have broken adrift and caused any loss or damage to the shipping in consequence? It is not for me to impute blame, but as to the fact of three of the floating lights having been adrift in the North Sea within two years I can speak of my own knowledge.

4505. What light-ships are they? The Leman and Ower, the Galloper and (I believe) the Shipwash; or the Galloper a second time.

4506. Will you state how they broke adrift? Either from dragging their anchors or snapping their chains.

4507. Are you sure of that? I cannot speak of my own knowledge, I never made particular inquiries into it.

4508. It is not of your own knowledge you state it? Yes, I state the fact of their breaking adrift from my own knowledge, I was on the coast, and the Trinity agent at Harwick, old Mr. Mayor, acknowledged that they had broken adrift.

4509. How soon were they replaced? I believe they were replaced immediately.

4510. Can you state within what time? I have no doubt, immediately the gale of wind was over in which they broke adrift. If I mistake not it was the gale of the 14th of November, 1841. I would add, that so long as the present system of testing the mooring chains, by enormous weight or strain, is continued, so surely will all the moorings of the light-vessels be liable to break. We have experiments instituted by the admiralty, in Woolwich dock-yard, under the superintendence of Mr. Tinmouth, master attendant at the dock-yard, which show that a cable, after being subjected to the usual testing strain, will, if taken off and the strain applied again, break at half the weight. I have the same testimony from Captain Dundas, private secretary to the first lord of the admiralty, who has himself witnessed experiments on the subject, and made a table of them, proving the fact.

4511. Mr. Somes.-What test would you submit cables to? It is a difficult question; probably the best way of ensuring good cables would be to oblige every contractor who furnishes them, to guarantee them for a certain number of years; I think, also, that a five fathom length, taken at random out of the whole length, should be tested and then thrown aside; or probably the usual riding strain of a ship, in proportion to the size of the cable, should be applied as a test, and no more; at present the test is nearer double the usual riding strain.

4512. Mr. Chapman.-Is it your opinion, generally, that any expense or labor is spared at the Trinity House, to obtain the best materials and to exhibit the lights at the best advantage? Certainly not; I have already borne my testimony to the efficiency of the Trinity House lights in the North sea, and I am quite ready to repeat it again in the most distinct and unequivocal manner, but I think that efficiency does not imply extravagance. It has been shown that the same degree of efficiency might be maintained at half the sum. I would not say one word about the extra £150,000 a year, if it did not come out of the pockets of the very hard pressed, all but starving sailors, men ground down at this moment, owing to the depreciation of the coasting trade (from the coast railways carrying coal at three farthings per ton per mile) and various other circumstances, to the very lowest pitch; and I think it is the bounden duty of the government, or of any public body, to relieve them to the utmost of their power, and especially a Trinity board, composed of seamen themselves who, of all men, should show the greatest feeling for a sailor.

4513. You have stated among the articles of expenditure the salaries of so many of the elder brethren; are you aware that the salary is £300 a year? Yes.

4514. Do you think that is one of the extravagant portions of the sum of £1800 a year? So far from it. that I think if the members of the Trinity board were really occupied in the service, they would be the wors paid men in England. The members of such a board as I think fitted to conduct their very responsible duty, should have at least £1000 a year each. 4515. Chairman.-Will you state in what kind of a board you think ought to be placed the management of the lights? I believe I have already stated I think it should be placed directly under the admiralty. I think an additional sea lord of the admiralty would be a proper chairman of such a board, and it ought to be in immediate connection with the hydrographer's office. Under the chairman I would have three naval captains, one for England, one for Ireland and one for Scotland; one royal engineer attached to the board to look after the light-houses, buildings, &c.; I should like to add a member of the board of trade, who should, ex officio, be one of the board, to take care of the interests of the trade of the country; probably also an optician, yet he might be called in case his advice was wanted; but above all things, I think the hydrographer of the admiralty should be the most prominent member of such a board. It seems to me a perfect anomaly to imagine the existence of a Trinity board without such an officer, having very great weight in it, instead of, as at present, his opinion going for nought.

4516. Mr. Chapman.-In the expression of this opinion do you conceive you deliver the sentiments of the merchants and ship owners of Great Britain? I think if it was fairly put to the shipping interests of Great Britain, they would be of the same opinion with me; of course I cannot pretend to give their opinion, never having consulted them. I think if the whole receipts of the Trinity board were annually stated and published and well known to the shipping interests of New Castle, Sunderland, Liverpool, Bristol, and throughout the country generally, they would rise up en masse and demand to have the light dues lightened fully one half; and no power the Trinity board, or any other, would be able to resist them.

of

4517. Are you not aware that the expenses of the Trinity board are annually submitted to Parliament, and that they travel down to these places

just as regularly as the bills brought into the House of Commons? I am quite aware they are submitted to Parliament; but I am not aware that they travel down to the out-ports, or are ever seen by sailors; and I may add that I never saw one myself out of London.

4518. Are they not known to ship owners? To one or two, perhaps. 4519. Chairman.-In mentioning the hydrographer, do you consider the department of coast surveyors under his charge would be useful to this board, having the charge of lights, buoys and beacons? I think it is absolutely essential. I consider the Trinity board do not now place buoys and beacons, but that the hydrographer makes surveys and points out to them where they must be placed; and upon his charts and observations, made for him by the admiralty surveyors, the Trinity board act; and even then they do not take the trouble to get the drawings when they are first made, but wait until they are engraved and published, probably some years after they reach the hydrographer, who, owing to press of business, is not able to publish them sooner. I know of my own knowledge the Trinity board are absolutely indifferent to the surveys made.

4520. Mr. Chapman.-Are you aware that a member of that board stood up in his place in the House of Commons to thank the admiralty for the readiness with which they had communicated the manuscript chart sent of Yarmouth Roads, and which they immediately communicated to the Trinity House? Not the manuscript, I believe, although the very drawing in question was made on board the Blazer, under my directions; and I know that the hydrographer to the admiralty, seeing its importance, caused it to be engraved in two days and sent several copies to the Trinity House.

4521. Does that show any indifference on the part of the Trinity House to what is going forward at the hydrographer's office? I well remember this isolated case. In point of fact it was a very pressing affair; a new channel was found opening into Lowestoft roads, called the Stamford channel, and it would appear in that instance the Trinity board acted with a proper degree of promptitude; but I am sorry to say it is a very rare case. I may instance Harwich harbor, in which the buoys were not set right until long after the plan of the harbor was made.

4522. Chairman.-If a board were constituted under the admiralty, would not every survey come before the board as soon as it was completed by the surveying officers? Yes; every plan would be laid upon the table; and not only that, but the want of every plan or survey would be immediately known to the hydrographer, who would despatch his surveying vessels to every dangerous point to survey, for the especial purpose of properly placing buoys, beacons or lights in channels or passages; and I cannot conceive how the Trinity board can exist without a surveying vessel attached to it. If they used their yacht as a surveying vessel, and manned her with pilots, and sent her to cruise in the North sea, it would form a nursery for North sea pilots, of which at present we have not a single one. I should then think any expenditure bestowed on the steam vessel well laid out; but seeing, as I do, that more than one half of her time is spent at Blackwall, with no pilots and hardly a sailor going to sea in her-seeing that she is not training up pilots or doing any good whatever, I cannot but exclaim at the annual expense I see charged for her.

4523. You have stated that in your opinion an officer should have charge of the lights in England, Ireland and Scotland; do you mean for each country? and if so, what do you consider should be their duty? One for

each country should be a member of the central board, having under him district officers all round the coast, either engineers or half-pay naval officers; masters, if we can get them, or lieutenants.

4524. Are you aware of the class of agents at present employed in different parts of the coast? Yes. I am of the opinion that, with the exception of Captain Love at the Isle of Wight, they are not selected from the class of men most fitted for such duties; and the immense value of keeping our masters well acquainted with the buoys and lights must be evident to every one.

4525. Mr. Chapman.-Suppose Captain Love was called away on foreign service? He must be supplied by another half-pay officer. As there are some fifteen hundred captains on the navy list, there never will be any want; besides, I think a lieutenant is much better fitted for the duty, and there are three thousand officers of that rank.

4526. Do you think the system would work better for the country? I have no doubt of it, in every respect. Sooner or later we must come to it. 4527. Sir H. Douglas.-Were you present the other day when the evidence was given with respect to the lights and light-vessels at Liverpool? Yes.

4528. Is it your opinion that any improvement could be made there? I am glad to bear testimony to the general good management of the port of Liverpool; but I think great care is required to see that the northwest light ship, which is a floating vessel with three lights, should have those lights so placed as from whatever position she is seen they should be equal in intensity. I have heard it remarked that on seeing her at a distance of eight or nine miles, apparently only two lights have been visible, the third being indistinct. Possibly this may arise from the want of parallelism in placing the parabolic reflectors of the three lights on the different masts. I think also that care should be taken in the mooring of the Formsby lightvessel, seeing that in the Victoria channel, a narrow channel of only four cables width, the floating light is obliged to be used as a leading light in one with the Crosby fixed light, and therefore should be as near a fixed point as possible, which might be done much better by mooring her with three chains instead of two, on which she would swing round on her stem as on a pivot, and could not move from her place.

APPENDIX F.

As the Fifth Auditor has quoted an extract from the diary or report of the deputy master and a committee of the Elder Brethren (Trinity House corporation, London) of 1836, without giving the year, who came to the conclusion "that they were so exactly alike that it was almost impossible to discover any difference; if there was any, we thought the light from the reflector rather the largest, that from the refractor rather the whitest." Let us see what the committee of the Royal Society (Edinburgh,) appointed to co-operate with the Commissioners for Northern Lights, reported on the 26th of October, 1836, say in their report on the same subject and with the same lights at the Isle of May.

"The committee were requested to compare the new fixed dioptric light on the Isle of May, thirteen miles distant, with the old catoptric light,