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a railway was not opposed, they had scarcely phrase, were only “occupying a position" the right to throw it out. A serious de- which they feared the enemy might attain. rangement would take place as soon as the It was unjust to give companies power great number of Bills now before the House over parties to take their land whether they had passed, and the calls began to be made would or not over a period so long as three
years; for during that time improvements LORD ASHBURTON said, that in the were stopped, and everything was in a present position of affairs, he had so strong state of suspense. IIe entreated their an objection to almost anything that could Lordships to take some step or other to be proposed, that he did not see his way improve the present system of railway leelearly enough to support the present Reso- gislation. lutions. If the amount required for the The Duke of RICIIMOND thought the construction of the railways passed this thanks of the House were due to his noble Session, came at all near to that which had Friend (Earl Fitzwilliam) for calling athad been stated, there could be no doubt it tention to this subject ; at the same time would derange the monetary system, and he agreed with his noble Friend the Presiproduce confusion through the country. At dent of the Board of Trade, that it was the same time, the state of the case ought impossible to carry the Resolutions now benot to be exaggerated. If the railways fore the House in justice or fairness after passed this Session required a capital of they had suffered matters to go on so long. 60,000,0001., it should be remembered The House ought to frame resolutions for that the calls were usually spread over a another Session. Their object was not to period of three years, and that only one stop the construction of proper railways, third of that amount would be required dur- but to prevent Bills being obtained for ing the present year. He did not lose branches that were never intended to be sight of the fact that calls would also be made, but which were brought forward to made during the present year on behalf of defeat railways that would be more useful railways which were in the second or third to the public. He had been on a Commityear of their construction; but he could not tee where the company sought for powers see in what manner Parliament could again to take land extending over a period of interfere.
five years ; the Committee, however, had The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that given them only eighteen months. Comthe first Resolution of the noble Lord, to panies said that the reason why they restop the Bills until they reached a certain quired so long a term was, that they found stage, would have the effect of collecting it so difficult to deal with landowners. He the Bills in one mass, and passing them at thought the House ought to limit the nearly the some time. It would thus create power which companies now possessed of the very inconvenience which the noble borrowing money ; that was the way to Lord wished to avoid. He should like to check some of those reckless schemes. At see the instructions given to the Committee the present moment it was impossible to (for he supposed it would be necessary to attend to the Standing Orders without give them instructions) before he was called feeling that they required great revision, upon to judge of the noble Lord's propo- and that they ought to be made more clear sition. With respect to the first Resolu- and decisive. An instance of this had oction, he would again submit to their Lord- curred to-day in the operations of what ships that it would collect all the Bills into was called Lord Wharncliffe's clause. one mass, and their Lordships would be Their Lordships should also, if possible, called upon to pass them at the same mo- come to an arrangement with the lIouse ment.
of Commons, so that when Bills had passed LORD MONTEAGLE said, it was not the Standing Orders Committee of the decent that the House should not take other IIouse, they might be immediately some pains to put railway legislation on a brought before the Standing Orders Comproper footing. Almost all the Bills grant- mittee of their Lordships' House. The ed a compulsory power of dealing with latter Committee, after a company had landed property; and railway companies, spent 8,0001. or 10,000., did not like to during the period of three years allowed throw out their Bill upon some technicality. them, took the land or not, just as suited He hoped the present Session would not the exigencies of the moment. During be allowed to pass over without some arthis time the owners of land were kept in rangement being made for a future Sessuspense, while the companies, in military sion ; but until railway companies were
compelled to conform strictly to the Stand- Bangor, but providing for the Immediate Appointment ing Orders, things would never be put
of a Bishop to the newly erected See of Manchester.
By Mr. Hawes, from Ratepayers of the Parish of Saint wholly right.
Mary, Lambeth, in Vestry assembled, against the HighLORD REDESDALE agreed with the ways Bill.-By Mr. Fuller, from Ratepayers of the Parish
of Froxfield, and from Elected Guardians of the Poor noble Duke that some improvement ought
Law Union of Newhaven, for Repeal or Alteration of to be made in the Standing Orders. Their the Lunatics Act and Lunatic Asylums and Pauper LuLordships ought to insist that a line should natics Act.-By Mr. Bankes, from Bridport, for Inquiry be laid down so accurately that the en
into the Bridport Election.—By Sir John Hanmer, from
Kingston-upon-Hull, for Alteration of Law of Rating and gineers might at once proceed to work Settlement.-By Mr. Marjoribanks, from Watford, for Ra. upon it, instead of sending in plans so im- ting Owners in lieu of Occupiers of Small Tenements.
By Sir Robert Peel, from Trustees of the British Museum, perfectly prepared that they wanted more
for Aid.—By Mr. T. Duncombe, from Liverpool, against time to revise them. He agreed also in the Deodands Abolition Bill.-— By Mr. T. Duncombe, the opinion that railway companies ought
from Dublin, against the abolition of Guilds.-By several not to be allowed to borrow any money,
hon. Members, from various places, against the Poor Reand that all their capital should be raised by shares. He thought that some limit
POST OFFICE. upon speculation was desirable; but their Mr. G. BERKELEY wished to put a Lordships could not interfere again now. question to the right hon. Baronet the There was a great deal of leniency towards Home Secretary respecting the puritanical companies on the part of the Committees attempt now making in different parts of to whom they were referred. The duty the country to close the Post Offices on of the Committee was to say whether the Sunday. The question he wished to put line before them was the best that could was, whether it was in the power of the be laid down; and they had a right to call Postmaster General to close the Post Office for evidence upon this point. In other on Sunday, and prevent the delivery of letcountries the selection of the best lines ters on private solicitation ? wus made by the Government. To say SIR J. GRAHAM said, that the hon. that because parties had spent a great deal Member had been obliging enough in the of
money, their Bill ought to pass, was to course of that morning to give him notice of offer a temptation to getting up crude the question he was to put on this subject. schemes. He trusted that Committees He had had no opportunity of consulting would inquire strictly into the merits of the Postmaster General since the receipt every Bill before them.
of the hon. Member's note, but he conEarl FITZWILLIAM replied. He conceived it was a question of general law curred in thinking that Committees ought which he might answer without consulting to be more strict, for at present their the Postmaster General. He believed Lordships took every Bill into considera- that the law as it now stood was, that the tion, with reference to its own peculiar Postmaster General had power to reguclaims to being passed, without regard to late the hours of delivery on Sunday at the effect it might produce on the country the different Post Offices. In the metrogenerally, in consequence of so much capi- polis, as the House was aware, the boxes tal being employed in one branch of specu- were open for the receipt of letters, but lation. He would not, however, press the there was no delivery. In country towns, Resolutions.
however, he believed that a delivery did Motion, by leave, withdrawn.
take place at certain hours, though there House adjourned.
was no attendance at the office during the
time of divine service. He (Sir J. GraHOUSE OF COMMONS,
ham) was not aware there was any inten
tion to change either the law or the pracFriday, June 5, 1846.
tice. MINUTES.] PUBLIC Bills.--1o. Waste Lands (Ireland); Steam Navigation ; Wreck and Salvage.
POOR LAW UNION OF CARRICK2". County Works Presentments (Ireland) Amendment.
COLONEL RAWDON wished to know various places, complaining of the Refusal of Proprietors from the noble Lord the Secretary for Ireof Land to grant Sites in suitable places, or on any Terms, land whether any information had been reScotland.--By Mr. Hawes, from Inhabitants of Sheerness, ceived by the Government respecting alfor the Adoption of Measures for promoting the Bue leged misconduct on the part of the officers Observance of the Lord's Day.---By Lord C. Manners, and others connected with the Poor Law from Minister, Churchwardens, ard Parishioners of Whitwick, against the Union of the Sees of St. Asaph and Union of Carrickmacross—whether inquiry
for the Erection of Churches for the Free Church in
had been made into the circumstances by visions of the Bill. The Bill was entitled Government or by the Poor Law Commis- " A Bill to consolidate and amend the sioners ; if so, the date of such inquiry, Laws relating to the Removal of the Poor.” and the date when the complaints of the It proposed to repeal certain former Acts ratepayers and their demands for investi- relating to the removal of the poor ; and gation were received by the Poor Law by the sixth Clause it was proposed to be Commissioners ; if any report had been enacted that every person who had become made upon the subject; and if the Govern- chargeable to any parish or union in which ment would consent to its production, and he was not settled should be liable to be to the evidence taken at the investigation, removed therefrom to any parish in which together with copies of the correspondence he was settled ; so that there would be which led to, and which related to, such ample opportunity for discussing the point investigation ?
the hon. Member for Malton had in view. The EARL of LINCOLN replied, that If it was necessary to move an instruction the Government had received information to the Committee on the point the hon. from the Poor Law Commissioners of the Member was going to urge, they would circumstances to which the hon. Member never have a single Bill without an instrucreferred—that inquiry had been made into tion being moved from that day forward. the circumstances, not by the Government, MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member but by the Poor Law Commissioners—that for Finsbury has quite correctly stated the Mr. Symons, the Assistant Poor Law Com- practice of the House, that it is not commissioner, had been instructed to make petent for a Member to move an instruction the inquiry on the 9th of May last—that to a Committee when it is competent for he proceeded to make the inquiry on the the Committee itself to entertain his Mo19th, and reported on the 25th-that the tion; but I am of opinion that, in the prePoor Law Commissioners had received the sent case, it is necessary for the hon. complaint of the ratepayers on the 1st of Member for Malton to move his instruction April — that some correspondence took in order to enable the Committee to enterplace between them and the Poor Law tain the subject. Commissioners in the interval between that MR. BANKES would not venture to ofand the 16th or 17th-that on the 18th fer any observation upon the point which the Commissioners referred the case to an had just been raised after what had fallen eminent counsel for his opinion, and this from the Chair ; but, in another respect, opinion they did not receive till the 9th he ventured to object to the hon. Member of May, when they immediately ordered an for Malton having precedence on the preinquiry. He (Lord Lincoln) had no objec- sent occasion. It would be in the recoltion to produce, not only the report and lection of the House that it was distinctly evidence, but the whole correspondence, understood, when they allowed the Bill to which should all be laid on the Table as be read a second time without discussion, soon as possible.
that at the present stage of the Bill there
should be a discussion on the whole prinPOOR REMOVAL BILL.
ciple of the Bill ; and, undoubtedly, if SIR J. GRAHAM moved the Order of they allowed the present opportunity to the Day for Committee on the Poor Re- pass, another might not arise. If the hon. moval Bill.
Member for Malton succeeded in his MoMR. J. E. DENISON rose to move an tion, the opportunity of discussing the Instruction to the Committee to make pro- principle might be lost. Waving, therevision for the establishment of union settle- fore, for a moment, the point raised by the ments; and was proceeding to state his hon. Member for Finsbury, he submitted reasons for asking the consent of the House whether he ought not to have, on the to the proposition, when
ground he had already stated, precedence MR. T. DUNCOMBE rose to order. He over the hon. Member for Malton. His had always understood that it was a rule right hon. Friend the Home Secretary of the House, that it was not competent would, he was sure, bear him out, that for any Member to move an instruction to when they last parted, it was distinctly una Committee when the object in view derstood that an opportunity was to be afcould be gained in Committee, which he forded for making observations on the printhonght was the case in this instance. The ciple of the Bill. It was upon that underquestion of the hon. Member could be raised standing that the Bill had been allowed to in Committee, both as to the title and pro- reach its present stage.
Sir J. GRAHAM said, nothing could LORD J. RUSSELL agreed with the be more accurate than the statement of his hon. Member for Oxfordshire that it was hon. Friend, that the second reading had more convenient in general to discuss the been allowed to pass without discussion, on principle of a Bill on the second reading, the distinct understanding that it would be and reserve for the next stage the questions open to any hon. Member to discuss the properly belonging to it. But he did not principle at the next stage of the Bill, see that the hon. Member would now be With respect to the point raised by the precluded from making any objection to hon. Member for Finsbury, he begged to the Bill which he might think proper. The remind the House, that as the Bill now right hon. Baronet said if the instruction stood, its principle was strictly limited to the were carried, the Bill would have to be reremoval of poor settled in England. The modelled, and it would then be a comparahon. Member for Malton, however, was anx- tively new Bill. If the hon. Member for ious to introduce into the Bill another most Malton should fail, however, it would then important principle, one immediately con- be quite competent to the hon. Member for nected with the removal of the poor - Oxfordshire to take an opportunity of obnamely, an alteration to a limited extent taining a night for the discussion of le of the law of settlement. After what had general principle of the Bill
. fallen from the Speaker, it was not for MR. J. E. DENISON was most anxious him to offer any observation on the right in every way to consult the convenience of of the hon. Member to move that instruc- the House; and he had only given his notion; but he thought it would be better tice in accordance with the advice of the that the hon. Member should proceed now, Speaker. He begged altogether to disbecause, if he succeeded in obtaining the claim any intention of getting rid of this assent of the House to his proposed instruc- measure by his proposed instruction, as had tion, it would be in vain to discuss the mea- been suggested by his hon. Friend the sure as it now stood--the whole Bill must Member for Finsbury. Nothing could be be remodelled, and he should have to ask further from his thoughts, as he was most the House to go into Committee pro formá, anxious for the success of the measure, if in order that the Bill might be altered in accompanied by certain modifications, withsome most important particulars.
out which it appeared to him not to deserve MR. HENLEY said, this case afforded the support of the House. He thought another proof of the inconvenience of allow- that it would be more convenient for the ing the second readings of Bills to pass House to discuss his Motion before discusssub silentio ; for, if the hon. Member for ing the principle of the Bill, because, as the Malton succeeded, the time would be gone right hon. Baronet had told them, if the by for any discussion on the principle of the instructions were agreed to, the Bill would Bill. He was surprised to hear the right have to be remodelled, and the previous hon. Baronet say that the law of settlement discussion of the principle would then have was not included in this Bill. To say so been a waste of time. He would, therewas really to throw dust in the eyes of the fore, with the leave of the House, proceed. public. Why, it would much better have In the first place, some confusion arose been called a Settlement Bill than a Re- from the title of the Bill. It professed to moval Bill. He repeated that, in common be a Bill for the removal of the poor; yet fairness, there ought te be a discussion on its first principle, they were told, was nonthe principle of the Bill.
removability—a word not known to the MR. DUNCOMBE asked whether, if English language, and which he hoped he the object of this Bill was to prevent would not have occasion to use a second the removal, under certain conditions, of time in that Ilouse. It was also said to persons who had a settlement elsewhere, be a Bill which did not affect the law of such a provision did not, in fact, raise the settlement, but it certainly did incidentally question of the law of settlement ? affect all who paid and who received poor
Sir J. GRAHAM was understood to say, rates. It was introduced as that although the Bill provided that a per- which was to be serviceable to the country son, after a five years' residence, should districts, as regarded great towns. not be removable, yet that provision did not introduced at the same time as the Corn touch the settlement of such a party in the Bill, and was received with much approbaleast degree. A party so non-removable tion by hon. Members who sat on the Gostill retained his settlement, which was vernment side of the House. Now, as to not affected.
this question between the town and coun
It was of all ages. The system is essentially bad, pro
try districts, he proposed to raise no dis-, the large villages rather than in detached cottages cussion; but as between different districts on the farms; the more immoral women come and parishes of the country, it did appear to from these villages; the steady and better are him that the measure would work very great
. injustice. This was the subject he wished The Rev. J. Guthrie expressly saysmore especially to bring under the notice “ The want of good cottages, where the memof the House. What were some of the bers of a family can live separate, is a great cause chief evils under which the labouring poor
of demoralization : where grown-up members of the
same family are continually occupying the same Dow suffered ? Bad cottages and too few room, modesty and delicacy and sense of shame are of them. Many people were crowded to soon put to flight ; where these are absent, and gether in rooms too small, and too often in dirt and disorder take their place, a gradual desingle rooms, to the utter destruction of clension in good morals and character succeeds, health and morals. The same evils had and the whole family sink perceptibly to a lower
grade in character and conduct." been brought under the notice of Parliament by Lord Ashley, as existing in the Mr. H. Phelps, contrasting two districts great towns of the manufacturing districts. of Studley and Foxton, saysThat noble Lord said, that the state of the " In Studley I found twenty-nine people living labouring population in those towns was
under one roof, amongst them married men and the monster evil of this country. Would Studley it is common for a whole family to sleep
women, and young people of nearly all ages. In that the same reproach could not be east in the same room. In Foxton things are different. on the rural districts, as regarded the con- The people in Foxton are much more moral, ordition of the labouring poor! It was in derly, and better disposed. The wages are the vain to take steps to ameliorate the con- the difference to the circumstance of each family dition of the people, it was in vain to in Foxton occupying a separate tenement, with vote money for their education and im- sufficient accommodation, while this is hardly ever provement, to build school-houses and ap- the case in Studley." point schoolmasters, if the scholar on his He would only trouble the House with one return home each day saw examples more extract respecting the working of the stronger than any precept, and far op gang system. The example was from the posed to the instruction he had just received as to order, cleanliness, and moral.
county of Norfolk :ity. But the House had higher authority that is, in the hands of a considerable number of
“ Castle Acre is what is called an open parishtian his for those statements: they had proprietors, while the neighbouring parishes are the authority of their own Commission, to each owned by one or two (or very few) propriewhich they would naturally be disposed to tors. These last, partly in order to prevent an pay attention and respect. A Commission increase of birth settlement, and to keep down the was appointed to inquire into the employ- in cottage property, not only allow no new cot
rates, partly from an unwillingness to invest money ment of women and children in the agricul- tages to be built, but let the old ones fall into ruin. tural districts in 1843, and he would read The resident population of these parishes is thereby a few extracts from their Report and evi-gradually reduced, as the labourers are forced to dence. With reference to the state of the quit them and come to reside in Castle Acre.
Thus, while in the adjoining parishes there are not people in Wilts, Dorset, Devon, and So- hands enough left to cultivate the soil, Castle merset, they said —
Acre is overstocked with inhabitants that do not " It is impossible not to be struck, in visiting properly belong to it, and who are, generally speakthe dwellings of the agricultural labourers, with ing, the worst characters of the parishes from the general want of new cottages, notwithstanding whence they come. The competition caused by tho
new comers raises the housc-rent throughout the the universal increase of population. Everywhere the cottages are old, and frequently in a state of parish; and as they are at the mercy of those who dizay, and are consequently ill-adapted for their have land at Castle Acre, they are forced to pay exincreased number of inmates of late years. The nine labourers' families belong to Castle Acre, 103
orbitant rents for very wretched dwellings. Fortywant of sufficient accommodation seems universal; families belong to other parishes. Suppose a fara Teat many cottages have only one bed-room ; the consequence is that it is extremely difficult, if mer in or near Castle Acre wishes to have a partinot impossible, to divide a family so that grown-up ber of hands, he applies to a gang master at Castle
cular piece of work done which will demand a numpersonis of different sexes do not sleep in the same Toom; three or four persons frequently sleep in Acre, who contracts to do the work and furnish
the labour. He accordingly gets together as many the same bed."
hands as he thinks sufficient, and sends them in a The next passage of the evidence was one gang to their place of work. If the work, as
usually happens, is such that it can be done by to which he would pray the most particular women and children as well as men, the gang is attention of the House, for it was of the in that case composed of persons of both sexes and very greatest importance :
ductive of immorality, and attended with much “ The want of proper accommodation exists in I hardship. The poor man, under the gang master,