the Adjourned Debate on the Question, I sure to the deliberate wisdom of your Lordships, "That the House do now resolve itself into Committee," being read,

they think it right to state that the commercial and manufacturing interests having been for some time in a state of great activity and prosperity, they see no ground for asserting that this Bill is essential to their progressive prosperity. Your petitioners, on the contrary, regarding the vast extension of commercial enterprise for many years past, and which seems to be continually going forward, do not believe that the Bill in question is essential to the

Your petitioners humbly believe that this is an experiment on a vital branch of our national intewhich it is impossible to foresee, and calling for rests, involving consequences the magnitude of your Lordships' deep and anxious consideration."

LORD STANLEY said: I hope it will not be looked upon as any violation of any previous understanding for proceeding with the Adjourned Debate at once, if I present to your Lordships a petition worthy of your most attentive consideration, bearing imme-continuous activity of that commercial interest. diately on the question now under discussion. My Lords, this is a petition—and I consider it a high honour to be selected by such a body to bring under your notice such a document-signed by merchants, traders, and bankers of the city of London. I will I told your Lordships that they did not pray not say that those petitioners request your you to reject this Bill; but these parties Lordships to reject the Bill under consider- come forward to protest against its being ation. I desire not, in the slightest de- supposed to be the general feeling of the gree, to exaggerate the importance of the citizens of London, or of the mercantile petition I desire to lay before you. The and commercial classes there, that this petitioners are many of them largely em- Bill was essential or even necessary to the barked in enterprises connected with our prosperity of the commercial interest. And commercial interests; and having to attend they go further; not desiring to interfere to their own private concerns they interfere with the deliberate exercise of your Lordwith reluctance in any political matter ships' judgment, they yet beg of you to bear whatever, and would be satisfied to leave in mind the immense and unforeseen cona question such as this to the deliberate sequences involved in this measure, and and impartial consideration of Parliament. not hastily to adopt a great and hazardous They have not petitioned your Lordships experiment. I admit that the relative value on the subject of this Bill; nor would they of the two petitions depends on the signanow have done so, had it not been that a tures appended to each. I shall enumerate petition was presented by the noble Pre- some of the names appended to this petisident of the Board of Trade, purporting to tition. There is the chairman and deputy be the petition of the bankers, merchants, chairman of Lloyd's; the chairman and and commercial men of the city of London, deputy chairman of the Dock Company; a in which it was stated that, in their opin- considerable number of Bank Directors-ion, the passing of this measure was essen- six, I believe; there is a large number of tial to the progressive prosperity of every bankers too; there are the names of Abel class of the community. My Lords, if Smith and Co., of Curtis and Brown, of there be any class especially whose inter- Spooner, Attwood, and Co.; of Bevan and est this Bill purports to be designed to Tritton, of Hanbury and Co., of Muspratt serve, it is the mercantile and commercial and Co.; of merchants there are Baring class; and, no doubt, a considerable im- Brothers, and IIuth and Co., without dispression was produced on your Lordships' pute the largest general merchants in the minds by a petition presented by one who city; of shipowners there are the names of held high official station, and which under- Tyndal and Somes, the largest in the trade; took to represent the general feeling of the of shipbuilders there are Curling, Young, commercial body. It was the presentation and Co.; there are thirteen of the princiof that petition that brought from their pal names engaged in the corn trade, many private concerns many of those whose names of the principal houses engaged in the silk are appended to the petition which I have trade, several of the principal houses ennow the honour to lay before your Lord-gaged in the iron trade, all the leading ships-the petition of the merchants and houses, without an exception, of those entraders of London, in which they humbly state-and the list of signatures gives fully good evidence they are correct—that they represent the general opinions of that class to which they belong. They begin by saying that

"Though desirous to leave so important a mea

gaged in the Canadian and Australian trade, and many of the principal houses engaged in trade with the other Colonies. My Lords, such is the authority of the names appended to this petition (and they are open, of course, to your Lordships for inspection), who, not desiring to interfere with your deliberate

443 Petition of the Merchants, &c. {LORDS}
judgment, pray you not to believe that this
Bill is universally called for by the mercan-
tile and manufacturing classes of the city
of London; and stating that the feelings
and sentiments of those interests have been
misrepresented to your Lordships in laying
the petition on the Table. I have to ex-
press my earnest hope that you will adopt
the advice they have tendered respect-
fully, and consider deliberately the vast
experiment you are about to make; and
that if you are determined (as I fear you
are) to make an alteration in the existing
law, you will not only accompany it with
due deliberation in your counsels, but that
this great experiment will be conducted
with a due degree of caution in practically
applying the principles of their legislation.

tween the two petitions; but since the noble Lord had drawn their attention to the signatures attached to his petition, he (the Earl of Dalhousie) begged to state, that to the petition which he had the honour to present, there were the signatures of twenty-four or twenty-six bankers, instead of six or seven, as in the case of the petition now brought forward by the noble Lord. There were attached the names of 267 merchants and others; but, as he said before, he was not in a condition to institute a comparison between the two. If, however, anything was to depend on this, he asked their Lordships to place them side by side; and he was not afraid of the comparison, whether with respect to wealth, knowledge, or respectability.

LORD STANLEY had nothing further from his view than to impute to his noble Friend anything like misrepresentation. But it would be recollected that a few nights ago, when it was stated that the petition which the noble Earl had presented did not express the sentiments of the city of London, it was asked on the other side, why there was no counter petition. In these circumstances the present petition must have been deemed necessary. He accepted his noble Friend's challenge as to a comparison. He had been authorized to state to their Lordships, that if they compared the signatures of the two petitions, they would find that those attached to the one presented by him represented more than threefold the amount of business transacted by those who had signed the petition of his noble Friend.

The EARL of DALHOUSIE had the honour some time ago to present to their Lordships a petition from merchants, bankers, and traders of the city of London. He was not aware that his noble Friend (Lord Stanley) intended to present the petition he had now done, or he might have been prepared with an analysis, showing the amount of respectability, influence, and wealth, attachable to the petition he had presented, so as to form a set-off to the petition which his noble Friend had now brought forward. He had no intention to diminish in the slightest degree the authority, or to detract from the weight of that petition; and perhaps he would not have troubled their Lordships but for one or two expressions which had dropped from his noble Friend. One of these expressions was, that the petition which was formerly presented purported to represent the general sentiments of the city of London; EARL GREY, upon examining the petiand the other was, that those who signed tion presented by the noble Lord (Lord the present petition objected to it as a mis- Stanley), found that, as originally drawn representation of the sentiments of the up, it contained the following passage:mercantile community. Now, what he "So little ground is there in their view wished to press upon their Lordships' at- for saying that it is necessary these meatention was, that the petition he presented sures should be passed with the least posdid not profess to be anything but what it sible delay." But it appeared this pasdistinctly was; nor did the observations sage was thought too strong, and the pen with which he had accompanied it state had been drawn through it. On erasing that it was more than the petition of mer- these words, it was implied that the opichants, bankers, and traders of the city of nion of the petitioners was, that the meaLondon. It did not profess to be the peti-sures ought to pass with the least possible tion of the city of London, but of certain merchants, bankers, and traders in it. He would say, therefore, let the petitions be judged by their relative merits and numbers; but let it not be supposed that the first petition came before their Lordships under false appearances. He had had no opportunity of instituting a comparison be

delay. The petition did not venture to ask their Lordships to reject the Bill, but talked of it as an experiment which ought to be decided one way or other. This, which was represented as a counter petition to one, numerously signed, and praying their Lordships to pass the measure, had not asked them to reject the measure,

LORD ASHBURTON observed, that there could be no doubt, if their Lordships were prepared to pass this measure, they ought to do so without delay. Such was the whole meaning of the passage referred to by the noble Earl as having been expunged, and he thought so too.

and its promoters had struck out a passage | He understood that the noble Lord had in which it was represented that there was been pleased to refer their Lordships to the no danger in delay. distinction existing between the sources from which certain of the right rev. Prelates on the benches of that House drew their incomes, and those from whence the incomes of the parochial Clergy were derived. He was aware that his noble Friend had not intended, and most probably had disclaimed the design, to make LORD BROUGHAM said, the whole ob- any invidious construction on the effect of ject of the petitioners seemed to be to show that distinction; but as he believed the their Lordships, that they did not agree noble Lord had also stated that it was a with the sentiments contained in the peti-fact likely to make a great impression on tion presented by the noble Earl (Earl the country, he thought their Lordships Dalhousie). They did not, however, ask would admit that he (the Bishop of St. their Lordships to reject the Bill, and all David's) was entitled to say, that the fact that could be drawn from it was, that there on which the noble Lord relied was erronewas no unanimity in the mercantile body ous. Speaking for himself, he wished to of London on the subject. In the time of inform their Lordships, as well as the pubthe Income Tax, in 1816, there was a lic, that of his own public income very public meeting at the Egyptian-hall, and little more than one-third was derived from that would, of course, speak the sense of fixed payments, and that very little less the city; but that could not be said of than two-thirds was subject to reduction either of these petitions. But, at all events, for depreciation of agricultural produce or none of the petitioners were for unneces- for other causes, exactly in the same prosary delay; they all felt, that if the Bill portion as the incomes of the parochial was to pass, the sooner it did so the better. Clergy. He did not mean to extend his Now, any Amendment that night in Com-assertion on this point beyond his own mittee would cause a delay of months. There could, moreover, be no greater mistake than to suppose that the mercantile interests were banded against the agricultural interests of the country; they might differ upon the Corn Laws, but generally speaking the former were for supporting the latter.

Petition read and ordered to lie on the Table.

CORN IMPORTATION BILL

EXPLANATION.

The BISHOP of ST. DAVID'S said, he was sure their Lordships would not be indisposed to listen to the few words he was about to address to them, which had at least as much to say to the question before the House, as the remarks they had just heard, when they knew that what he had to say tended to correct a mistake affecting the personal character of a Member of their Lordships' House. He had not been present at the time the speech was delivered by the noble Lord (Lord Stanley), and he deeply regretted the fact; but he understood that the noble Lord had done him the honour to advert to one or two points of his speech, in which he had been misinformed as to the facts as far as regarded himself (the Bishop of St. David's).

case; but their Lordships would, he was sure, give him some credit for being sufficiently well informed as to his own affairs.

LORD STANLEY would have been glad, had the right rev. Prelate, before he had thought proper to advert to what had fallen from him on a previous night, informed him beforehand of his intention. He (Lord Stanley) had not the least idea that he would have been called upon for an explanation of what he had really stated; but it was in their Lordships' recollection and he recollected it, that he expressly said, he would state nothing personally offensive to the right rev. Prelate, and that he would say nothing of him in his absence which he would not say in his presence. But their Lordships would recollect that the right reverend Prelate had addressed them on the subject of motives, and that he had used those extraordinary words, as nearly as he (Lord Stanley) could remember, " That their Lordships might be fully conscious of the purity of their own intentions; but they must recollect that a very different view of this great question would be entertained throughout the country, and that a very different construction would be put on their conduct." In commenting on that observation of the right reverend Prelate, not supposing it possible

were

that he could have intended anything of- | somewhat invidious, and that effect had fensive to their Lordships, he had made been augmented by repetition in other use of words to the effect, that he was places in a manner still more invidious. confident the right rev. Prelate was as He was almost ashamed to trouble their little influenced by any motive of private Lordships with a defence against imputaconsideration as he had given their Lord- tions-not intended, it was said-but cerships credit for being, but that the public tainly calculated to exercise an injurious were free to draw the same inference with effect, as regarded Members of their respect to him and his motives, as he had Lordships' body, on the public mind. He thought fit to draw with respect to the would, therefore, without troubling their personal motives of their Lordships. If Lordships at any length, state how the there were anything personally offensive case really stood. Out of the twenty-six in what had passed, it had fallen from the Members of the right reverend Bench in right rev. Prelate, and not from him; be- their Lordships' House, fourteen cause his (Lord Stanley's) assertions, with altogether free from being placed, in the respect to the operation of motives, went least degree, in the circumstances which as far as the right rev. Prelate's conviction had been stated by the right rev. Prelate, of their Lordships' purity of intentions. and received no portion of their incomes in The statement he made, which might not payment from the Ecclesiastical Commishave been correctly repeated to the right sioners. Those Members of the right rev. Prelate, had been this-and he hoped rev. Bench derived their incomes in the he would forgive him for repeating it- same way as the landed proprietary did, that there was a wide distinction between the only difference being, that they dethe sources from which the right reverend rived a larger proportion from the improBench and the parochial Clergy derived priate tithes, which were more likely to their incomes; that the latter were wholly be affected by this Bill, than in any other and exclusively dependent on corn for their way. It certainly seemed severe that the income; that as the value of that article Clergy should suffer by the Bill; and its feel, so their income would be depreciated, bearing on their case presented an obstacle and they would inevitably be losers by the to him in the way of the vote he had given measure, unless all other commodities fell on behalf of the Bill. The liability of the in proportion; and he had proved that parochial Clergy to be affected by it cerwould not be case. By the confession- tainly did appear to him an argument no, not confession-he would not apply against the Bill. He did not, however, that word to the speech of the right rev. regret the appeal which had been made to Prelate-but by his own statement, their the right rev. Bench, for he believed they Lordships were informed that two-thirds were justly looked upon as the guardians of his income depended on the price of of the Clergy in that House. Nevertheless, corn; but as regarded one-third of it, he he thought the injustice which had been was not only protected from reduction, done to that body was not so much attribut received a fixed money payment for it. butable to that Bill as to the Tithe ComHe then took the liberty of showing that mutation Act. Differing, as he did, in all who received a fixed money payment opinion on that subject from many of his were gainers by this measure, and that Friends, he had always held, and repeatedly was all he had said. He hoped this ex- expressed it, and he believed, that by it planation would be satisfactory to the right parochial Clergy were deprived of the prosrev. Prelate. He had not thought he pect of any increase of value to be derived should have been called upon to make it, from improvement in agriculture. Of the and should have gladly explained what he other Members of the right reverend Bench did say, if the right rev. Prelate had asked four were in the position of paying fixed him to do so in private. He disclaimed all charges to the Ecclesiastical Commissionmotives, or the imputation of them, and had ers out of uncertain incomes-the gross only pointed out the distinction between amount of their revenue being liable to the sources of the revenues of the paro- fluctuation from the operation of this Bill, chial Clergy, and the right reverend Bench, or of any other measure affecting the price which was admitted by the right rev. Pre- of corn. Of those four right rev. Prelates, late to exist. three had recorded their votes in favour of The BISHOP of SALISBURY said, the Bill. Thus two-thirds of the right that the distinction had certainly been reverend Bench were altogether removed stated in a manner which would appear from the possibility of their being under

any imputation as regarded the motives | right rev. Prelate, who had made a most for their votes. One-third of his right able and eloquent speech, for having taken rev. Brethren were under the suspicion of the liberty of addressing himself to that receiving fixed payments. But had none right rev. Bench. He was not accustomed of their Lordships any fixed incomes? to take liberties, nor did he think he had Had none of their Lordships funded protaken any liberty in expressing himself as perty not liable to be affected by the ope- he had done. If out of that House the rations of this Bill? He claimed no ex- right rev. Prelate should ever condescend ception for his right rev. Brethren from to give him (the Earl of Malmesbury) his any charges which could with truth be spiritual advice, he would gladly admit brought against them; but from their po- and follow it; but in that House, in all sition and character, no persons should be temporal and in all political subjects, he more exempt from charges without proper should, in everything but ability and elofoundation. He thought he had demon- quence, consider himself and act as the strated that this charge, which it had Peer of the right rev. Prelate. been intended to apply to them, though it had been brought forward in somewhat an invidious manner elsewhere, was totally without foundation.