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33d Cong....20 Sess.
Execution of United States Laws-Debate.
citizens in the several States," are equally appli- draws no life from the Constitution, as it clearly to remove this act from our statute-book, that it cable to its associate clause, forming a part of the draws no life from that supreme law which is the may no longer exist as an occasion of ill-will and same section, in the same article, and providing essential fountain of life to every human law. a point of conflict. Let the North be relieved
persons held to service or labor in one Sir, the bill before you may have the sanction from this usurpation, and the first step will be State, under the laws thereof, escaping into an- of Congress; and in yet other wa you may seek | taken towards permanent harmony. The Senator other, shall be delivered up on claim of the party to sustain the Fugitive Slave Act. But it will be from Louisiana (Mr. BENJAMIN] has proclaimed to whom such service or labor may be due." of in vain. You undertake what no legislation can anew to-night what he has before declared on this this there can be no doubt.
accomplish. Courts, 100, may come forward and floor—" that slavery is a subject with which the If one of these clauses is regarded as a compact lend it their sanction. All this, too, will be in Federal Government has nothing to do." I thank between the Slates, to be carried out by them re- vain. I respect the learning of judges; I reverence him for teaching the Senate that word. True, spectively, according to their interpretation of its the virtue, more than learning, by which their most true, sir, ours is a Government of freedom obligations, without any intervention of Congress, lives are often adorned. But nor learning nor which has nothing to do with slavery. This is then the other must be so regarded; nor can any virtue, when, with mistaken force, bent to this the doctrine which I have ever maintained, and legislative power be asserted by Congress under purpose, can avail. I assert confidently, sir, and which I am happy to find recognized in form, if one clause which is denied under the other. ask the Senate to note my assertion, that there is not in reality, by the Senator from Louisiana.
Congress, in abstaining from all exercise of no court, howsoever endowed with judicial quali- The Senator then proceeded to declare that all power under the first clause, when required thereto ties, or surrounded by public confidence, which is that the South asks is to be let alone."
This rein order to protect the liberty of colored citizens, strong enough to lift this act into any permanent quest is moderate. And I say for the North, that while it has assumed power under the second consideration or respect. It may seem, for a mo. all that we ask is to be let alone. Yes, sir, let us clause, in order to obtain the surrender of fugitivement, to accomplish the feat. Its decision may be alone. Do not involve us in the support of slavery. slaves, has shown an inconsistency, which becomes enforced amidst tears and agonies. A fellow man Hug the viper to your bosoms, if you perversely more monstrous when it is considered that, in the may be reduced anew to slavery. But all will be will, within your own States, until it stings you one case, the general and commanding interests
in vain. The act cannot be upheld. Anything so to a generous remorse, but do not compel us to of liberty have been neglected, while in the other, entirely vile, so absolutely atrocious, would drag hug it too; for this I assure you we will not do. the peculiar and subordinate interests of slavery an angel down. Sir, it must drag down every court
But the Senator from Louisiana, with these have been carefully secured; and such an exercise which in an evil hour, ventures to sustain it. professions on his lips, proceeds to ask, doubtless, of power is an alarming evidence of that influence And yet, sir, in zeal to support this enormity, with complete sincerity, but in strange forgetof slavery in the national Government which has Senators have not hesitated to avow a purpose to fulness of the history of our country: “Did we increased, is increasing, and ought to be over- break down the recent legislation of States calcu- ever bring this subject into Congress?" Yes, sir, thrown.
lated to shield the liberty of their citizens. “It is that was his inquiry, as if there had been any According to the express words of the Consti- | difficult,” says Burke, "to frame an indictment moment from the earliest days of the Republic, tution, in the tenth amendment, "the powers not against a whole people.". But here in the Senate, when the supporters of slavery had ceased to delegated to the United States by the Constitution, where are convened the jealous representatives of bring this subject into Congress. Almost from nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, we have heard whole Siates arraigned, the beginning it has been there, through the exerthe States respectively, or to the people;" and as if already guilty of crime. The Senator from cise of usurped power, no where given under the since no powers are delegated to the United States Louisiana, (Mr. BENJAMIN,] in plaintive tones, | Constitution, for I am glad to believe that the in the clause relating to the privileges and im- has set forth the ground of proceeding, and more Constitution of my country contains no words out munities of citizens,” or in the associate clause of than one sovereign State has been summoned to of which slavery, or the power to support slavery, the same section, relating to the surrender of “per- | judgment. It would be easy to show, by a criti- can be derived; and this conclusion, I doubt not, sons held to service or labor," therefore all legis- cal inquiry, that this whole charge is without just || will yet be affirmed by the courts. And yet, the lation by Congress under either clause must be an foundation, and that all the legislation so much honorable Senator asks: “Did we ever bring this assumption of undelegated powers, and an infrac- condemned, is as clearly defensible under the subject into Congress?" The answer shall be lion of rights secured to the States respectively, or Constitution as it is meritorious in purpose. Sir, plain and explicit. Sir, you brought slàvery into to the people; and such, I have already said, is the the only crime of these States is, that liberty has Congress, when shortly after the adoption of the Fugitive Slave Act.
been placed before slavery. Follow the charge, || Constitution, you sanctioned it in the District of I might go further, and, by the example of point by point, and this will be apparent. In | Columbia, within the national jurisdiction, and South Carolina, vindicate to Massachusetts, and securing to every person claimed as a slave, the adopted that barbarous slave .code, still extant every other State, the right to put such inter- protection of trial by jury and the habeas corpus, on your statute-book, which the Senator from pretation upon the “fugitive clause as it shall they simply provide safeguards, strictly within Connecticut (Mr. Gillette] has so eloquently think proper. The Legislature of South Carolina, | the province of every State, and rendered neces exposed to-night. You brought slavery into Conin a series of resolutions, adopted in 1844, asserts sary by the usurpation of the Fugitive Act. In gress, when at the same period you accepted the the following proposition:
'securing the aid of counsel to every person claimed cession of territories from North Carolina and " Resolved, That free negroes and persons of color are
as a slave, they but perform a kindly duty, which | Georgia, now constituting States of the Union, not citizens of the United States within the meaning of the
no phrase or word in the Constitution can be tor- with conditions in favor of slavery, and thus began Constriution, which confers upon the citizens of one State tured to condemn. In visiting with severe pen- to sanction slavery in Territories within the exthe privileges and immunities of the citizens of the several alties every malicious effort to reduce a fellow-man clusive jurisdiction of Congress. You brought States."
to slavery, they respond to the best feelings of the islavery into Congress, when, at different times, Here is a distinct assumption of a right to de- || human heart. In prohibiting the use of the county you usurped a power not given by the Constitutermine the persons to whom certain words of the jails and buildings, as barracoons and slave-pens; tion, over fugitive slaves, and by most offensive Constitution are applicable. Now, nothing can in prohibiting all public officers, holding the com- legislation thrust your arms into distant northern be clearer than this: If South Carolina may de- mission of the State, in any capacity,- whether as homes. You brought slavery into Cogress, when, termine for itself whether the clause relating to chief justice or justice of the peace, whether as by express legislation, you'regulated the coast“the privileges and immunities of citizens" be governor or constable,-from any service as a wise slave trade, and thus threw the national shield applicable to the colored citizens of the several Slave Hunter; in prohibiting the volunteer mililia over a traffic on the coast of the United States, States, and may solemnly deny its applicability, of the State, in its organized form, from any such which on the coast of Congo you justly brand then may Massachusetts, and every other Siace, service, the States simply exercise a power under as “piracy." You brought slavery into Condetermine for itself whether the other clause relat- the Constitution, recognized by the Supreme i gress when, from time to time, you sought to inor labor," be really applicable to fugitive slaves, slavery, in the fatal Prize case, by Positive PRO into the national Union. And, permit me to say, and may solemnly deny its applicability.
HIBITION, to withdraw its own officers from this sir, you brought slavery into Congress when you Mr. President, I have said enough to show the offensive business.
called upon it, as you have done even at this very usurpation by Congress under the “fugitive" For myself, let me say that I look with no pleas- session—to pay for slaves, and thus, in defiance clause of the Constitution, and to warn you against ure on any possibility of conflict between the State of a cardinal principle of the Constitution, made renewing this usurpation. But I have left un- and national jurisdictions; but I trust that, if the the National Government recognize property in touched those other outrages, plentiful as words, interests of freedom so require, the States will not men. And yet the Senator from Louisiana, with which enter into the existing fugitive slave act, hesitate. From the beginning of this controversy, strange simplicity, says that the South only asks among which are the denial of trial by jury; the I have sought, as I still seek, to awaken another to be let alone. "Sir, the honorable Senator only denial of the writ of habeas corpus; the author- | influence, which, without the possibility of con. borrows the language of the North, whiclı, at each ization or judgment on ex parte evidence, without flict, will be mightier than any act of Congress and of these usurpations, exclaims, “Let us alone." the sanction of cross-examination; and the sur- the sword of the National Government. I mean And let me say, frankly, that peace can never render of the great question of human freedom to an enlightened, generous, humane, Christian Pub- prevail until you do let us alone-until this subbe determined by a mere commissioner, who, ac- || lic Opinion, which shall blast with contempt, ject of slavery is banished from Congress by the cording to the requirements of the Constitution, | indignation, and abhorrence, all who, in whatever triumph of freedom-until slavery is driven from is grosaly incompetent to any such service. I have form, or under whatever name, undertake to be its usurped foothold, and freedom is made national also left untouched the hateful character of this agents in enslaving a fellow man. Sir, such an instead of sectional and until the National Govenactment as a barefaced subversion of every | Opinion you cannot bind or subdue. Against its ernment is brought back to the precise position it principle of humanity and justice. And now, sir, 1 subtle, pervasive influence, your legislation and occupied on the day that Washington took his we are asked to lend ourselves anew to this enor- the decrees of courts will be powerless. Already first oath as President of the United States, when mity, worthy only of indignant condemnation; in Massachusetts, I am proud to believe, it begins | there was no Fugitive Act, and the national flag, we are asked to impart new life to this pretended to prevail; and the Fugitive Act will soon be there as it floated over the national territory within the law, this false act of Congress, this counterfeit a dead leiter.
jurisdiction of Congress, nowhere covered a single enactment, this monster of legislation, which • Mr. President, since things are so, it were well I slave.
330 CONG....20 Sess.
The Know-Nothings-Mr. Millson.
Ho. OF REPs.
And now, sir, as an effort in the true direction the Constitution of the United States, with the The Senator from Massachusetts has alluded to of the Constitution; in the hope of beginning the opinions which he has expressed; but, if I under- the act under which these men were imprisoned. divorce or the National Government from slavery, sland him, he means that whether this law, or that That act is still in force, but we are willing to and to remove all occasion for the proposed meas- law, or any other law prevails, he disregards the relax it; and, indeed, under my advice, the Govure under consideration, I shall close what I have obligations of the Constitution of the United States. ernor of South Carolina has recommended that it to say with a motion to repeal the Fugitive Act. Mr. SUMNER. Not at all. That I never shall be entirely changed. I have pitied those Twice already, since I have had the honor of a said. I recognize the obligations of the Constitu- poor creatures. I have felt for them as humble seat on this floor, I have pressed that question to
sailors condemned by their condition to a situation a vole, and I niean to press it again to-night. Mr. BUTLER. He says he recognizes the obli- lo which they ought not to be subjecied; but, sir, After the protracted discussion, involving the gations of the Constitution of the United States. I have never understood anything in southern phicharacter of this enactment, such a motion seems I see, I know he is not a tactician, and I shall not lanthropy that would reconcile an honorable genlogically to belong to this occasion, and may filly take advantage of the infirmity of a man who does tleman to desert his sailors when he could reclaim close its proceedings.
not know half his time exactly what he is about. them by the payment of two dollars. At a former session, on introducing this prop- || (Laughter.) But, sir, I will ask that gentleman The PRESIDENT. The Chair understands osition, I discussed it at length, in an argument, one question: if it devolved upon him as a repre- the Senator from Massachusetts to ask for the which I fearlessly assert has never been answered, | sentative of Massachusetts, all Federal laws being yeas and nays? and now, in this debate, I have already touched put out of the way, would he recommend any law Mr. SUMNER. Yes, sir. upon various objections. There are yet other for the delivery of a fugitive slave under the Con- The yeas and nays were ordered. things which might be urged. I might exhibit | stitution of the United States ?
Mr. FESSENDEN. Before the vote is taken the abuses which have occurred under the Fugitive Mr. SUMNER. Never.
I merely wish to say that the Senator from VerAct; the number of free persons it has doomed to Mr. BUTLER. I knew that. Now, sir, I mont, (Mr. Foot,) and the Senator from Dela. slavery; the riots it has provoked; the brutal con- have got exactly what is the truth, and what I ware, (Mr. CLAYTON,] both being unwell, have duct of its officers; the distress it has scattered; the intend shall go forth to the southern States. He paired off on this bill. derangement of business it has caused; interfering has chosen to speak of South Carolina's morality The question being taken by yeas and rays on even with the administration of justice, changing and statutes; and his predecessor, (Mr. Win- the amendment offered by Mr. SUMNER, resultedcourt-houses into barracks and barracoons, and throp,) upon one occasion, brought up the same yeas 9, nays 30; as follows: filling streets with armed men, amidst which law subject. 'Since Mr. Winthrop first brought it up, YEAS-Messrs. Brainerd, Chase, Cooper, Fessenden, is silent. All these things I might expose. But I have investigated it thoroughly. The former Gillette, Seward, Sumner, Wade, and Wilson-9.
NAYS-Messrs. Auams, Badger, Bayard, Bell, Benja. in these hurried moments, I forbear. Suffice it to Senator from Massachusetts brought it before us
min, Bright, Brown, Butler, Clay, Dawson, Douglas, Friz. say, that the proposition to repeal the existing on a letter from a Mr. Ramlett. Now, I intend
patrick, Geyer, Gwin, Ilunter. Jones of Iowa, Jones of Fugitive Act standson adamantine grounds, which to make a commentary upon Massachusetts mo. Tennessee, Mallory, Mason, Mortuin, Pearce, Pettit, Rusk, po debate in opposition can shake.
rality in contrast with what I think honesty would Sebastian, Shields, Slidell, Thomson of New Jersey, There are considerations belonging to the pres
Toucey, Weller, and Wrighi-–30. require of anybody. As I learn the facts of the
So the amendment was rejected. ent period which give new strengih to this propo- case, this man Ramlett, finding that himself and sition. Public opinion, which, under a popular i his crew, three of them colored men, were going into Mr. WELLER. I move to amend the bill by Government, makes and unmakes laws, and Charleston, took an opportunity of making some- inserting in line twenty-five, after the word "prowhich, for a time, was passive and acquiescent, thing by salvage. They used the opportunity, cesses,
" the words " and all depositions which now lifts itself everywhere in the States where when the ship came into Charleston, those colored may have been legally taken in the State courts, the act is sought to be enforced, and demands a men, his crew, were put into prison, under the and all records duly authenticated which may have change. Already three States, Rhode Island, | laws of South Carolina. I acknowledge that was been filed as evidence in the case, shall be received Connecticut, and Michigan, by formal resolutions done under the police laws of that State. But, and read as if taken in the courts to which the suit presented to the Senate, have concurred in this de- sir, what do you think this New England, this is transferred." mand. The tribunals of law are joining at last with Massachusetts exponent of philanthropy did? He The amendment was agreed to. the people. The superior couri of Cincinnati has left them in prison, went to Boston, and wrote a
The bill was reported to the Senate as amended, denied the power of Congress over this subject. must philanthropic letter, in which he said that
and the amendments made as in Committee of the And now, almost while I speak, comes the the laws of South Carolina had proscribed and
Whole were concurred in. The bill was ordered solemn judgment of the Supreme court of Wis- put into captivity citizens of Massachusetts ! He
to be engrossed for a third reading, read the third consin-a sovereign State of this Union-made had in his pocket the money which those poor crea
time, and the question was stated to be “Shall the after elaborate argument, on successive occasions, tures had enabled him to win, and yet he left them
bill pass ?” before a single judge, and then before the whole in prison, when, with two dollars, he could have
Mr. SEWARD, Mr. SUMNER, and others, bench, declaring this act to be a violation of the reclaimed them. Yes, sir, this man, who could
called for the yeas and nays, and they were Constitution. In response to Public opinion, I have released his crew by the payment of two ordered. broad and general, if not universal at the North, dollars, left Charleston, went to Bosion, and wrote
Mr. DAWSON. I desire to state that the Senswelling alike from village and city, from the sea- a philanthropic letter as to the rights of his crew;
ator from Maryland, (Mr. Pratt,) in consequence board and lakes-judicially attested, legislatively and those poor creatures, who were entitled to of the illness of one of his children, was called declared, and represented also, by numerous peti- their freedom, were restored to it by slave owners,
away to-night, and therefore paired off with the tions from good men without distinction of pariy-gentlemen in Charleston paying the gaol fees.
gentleman from Wisconsin, (Mr. WALKER.) in response to this Public Opinion, as well as in Here is an instance where a man who sailed
The question being taken by yeas and nays, obedience to my own fixed convictions, 1 deem it in a Massachusetts vessel, in order to earn salvage, resulted-yeas 29, nays 9; as follows: my duly not to lose this opportunity of pressing carried those poor creatures into the city of
YEAS–Messrs. Adams, Badger, Bayard, Bell, Benjamin, the repeal of the fugitive slave act once more upon Charleston, and allowed them to remain there, Bright, Brown, Clay, Dawson, Douglas; Fitzpatrick, Geyer, the Senate. I move, sir, to strike out all after the while he went home in his vessel and wrote letters Gwin, Hunter, Jones of lowa, Jones of Tennessee, Mallo.
enacting clause in the pending bill, and insert on philanthropy, when the money which he had in ry,Mason, Morton, Pearce, Peilit, Rusk, Sebastian, Shields, - instead thereof these words: his pocket, derived from their exertions could
Slidell, Thomson of New Jersey, Toucey, Weller, and
Wrighi-29. That the act of Congress, approved September 18, 1850,
have saved them from the situation in which they NAYS-Messrs. Brainerd, Chase, Cooper, Fessenden, usually known as the “ fugiuve slave act," be, and the were placed. Sir, Charleston gentlemen paid the Gillette, Seward, Suniner, Wade, and Wilson--9. same hereby is, repealed.
jail fees, and released those sailors; and, if I had So the bill was passed; and, on motion, the And on this motion I ask the yeas and nays. been the commander of that vessel, and a dog had Senate adjourned at twelve o'clock. Mr. BUTLER. Mr. President, I have no idea been my companion, and that dog had been taken of irritating sectional differences. If gentlemen from me, I would have perished rather than have have the opinions which it seems the gentleman | deserted him. I would not only have paid two
THE KNOW.NOTHINGS. from Massachusetts entertains, be it so. l'assure dollars for him, but I would have stood by him to him I do not intend to bandy words with him. the last at any hazard. But when those com- SPEECH OF HON. J. S. MILLSON, He talks as if he was disposed to maintain the panions were human beings, comrades who had Constitution of the United States; but if I were to drank out of the same cup, and encountered the
OF VIRGINIA, put to him a question now, I would ask him one same common storm, I would have been the last IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, which he, perhaps, would not answer me honestly. man to abandon them, especially when two dollars Mr. SUMNER. I will answer any question. I could have saved them. This man, however,
February 23, 1854. Mr. BUTLER. Then I ask you honestly went to Boston, and wrote philanthropic letters,
Mr. MILLSON: I have received many letters now, whether, all laws of Congress being put out instead of paying two dollars which belonged to inviting an expression of my views upon the new of the question, you would recommend to Massa- | his poor men.
and secret society called Know-Noihings. At chusetts to pass a law to deliver up fugitives from When the gentleman talks in the way he does, this busy period of the session, I have been unslavery?
I choose to rebuke him. Any man who comes up able, in separate replies, to communicate my opinMr. SUMNER. The Senator asks me that here with a philanthropy inconsistent with what ions upon the subject. I have, therefore, determquestion, and I answer, frankly, that no tempta- | is practical justice and liberty, I do not say that I ined to avail myself of this method of doing so. tion, no inducement, would draw me in any way scorn him-I use no such word—but by heavens | My constituents, I admit, are entitled to know to sanction the return of any man to slavery. sooner than quit those two negroes, who had what I think upon a subject which is beginning to But, then, I leave to others to speak for them- shared my fate in difficulty and in danger, I would assume a national importance, and though it is not selves. In this respect, I speak for myself. have gone to any hazard that might be encountered yet directly and immediately connected with the
Mr. BUTLER.' I do not rise now at all to in Charlesten.' I would have readily paid two legislation of Congress, it has been several times question the right of the gentleman from Massa- dollars; but Boston philanthropy was relieved by drawn into discussion here. chusetts to hold his seat, under the obligation of ll going home and writing a letter to a Senator. It may be that, from the mystery thrown 330 Cong....20 Sess.
The Know-Nothings—Mr. Millson.
Ho. OF REPS.
around this new society, I am not sufficiently tions of policy are persuaded to dissemble them, consent to the dissolution of such a party,
ness of any means not by a consideration of their to spring from a canvass of religious creeds in our The Know-Nothings, then, are understood to intrinsic propriety, but only by their capacity to political elections, I speak not now of the glarbe a political party whose constitution, forms of effect the end desired. It would make success the ing injustice of any persecution or proscription proceedings, obligations, and resolves, are all kept | touchstone of morality. There is no crime that on account of religious faith. I speak not of its secret. Their disciples are secretly admitted, and, might not be justified on such principles when its tendency, from the known laws and sympathies it is said, are bound by oath to conform them- commission would promote the success of our of our nature, to help the very cause aliempted to Belves, under certain circumstances, to the will objects.
be exterminated. I present it as a mere question and dictation of others. It is said they are sever- But what are these designs of the Know-Noth- || of prudence, of policy, of wisdom. If the creed ally enjoined to conceal their membership, and ings that are supposed to excuse the employment of the Roman Catholic be attacked, is it to be supthat they even suppose themselves at liberty to of means so improper in themselves, and so much | posed he will content himself with simple vindideny it. Of their ultimate objects I am, of course, | opposed to the habits of our people? I confess cation? Will not the doctrines of the Protestant not informed; but it is believed they aim at the myself unable to form any definite conclusion as churches be assailed in turn ? . And by whom, sir, exclusion from civil and political offices of every to what they are. I have read newspapers and are they to be defended ? Now, I entertain no fear citizen of foreign birth, and of all persons profess-listened to speeches avowedly made for the pur. of the i esults of enlightened discussion upon this ing the Roman Catholic religion. From the results pose of explaining them, but there has been such subject. If Martin Luther, standing alone against of many recent elections it seems they would a remarkable contrariety of statement upon the sub- all ihe powers of Church and State, established even exclude those also that are neither Catholics | ject as to leave me very much in doubt. Opposi- the Reformation by the mere force of argument and por foreigners who will not aid them in their de- ltion to foreigners and Roman Catholics would be reason; if that Reformation has spread throughsigns. if, sir, in attributing to them these designs the burden of one; while another, disclaiming all out the world until it numbers its supporters by and practices, any injustice is done them, the hostility to either, would avow his willingness to hundreds of millions, I can feel no sori of doubt blame must rest upon themselves. The secrecy vote for both Catholics and foreigners possessing as to the results of a fair, open, intelligent disthey have adopted may excuse any misconception, suitable qualifications. Some would maintain that cussion of its claims to universal acceptance. But, which publicity would prevent or remove. the chief object of this new association is to pre- | sir, as a Protestant, and a member of a Protestant
Sir, I cannot conceal my regret and alarm at the serve the union of the States, while others pleased church, 1 protest against confiding this charge to effort to accomplish such purposes by such means. themselves with the fancy that their mission was the mere politician, who knows as little as he That honest and intelligent men should connect to suppress the slavery agitation and to restore cares about even the rudiments of the faith he is themselves with a political party seeking to elect good fellowship between the North and the South. set up to defend. I protest against confiding the its candidates without subjecting them to a public Sir, I cannot help suspecting that the real object of defense of my religion to the worldling, who, canvass of their qualifications and pretensions, the greater number is to prostrate both the parties, | perhaps, looks upon all forms of religious faith would excite my surprise, whatever might be their of Democrats and Whigs, that they may possess with equal indifference or contempt, and has no objects, and though they were openly avowed. themselves of power and place; and that to secure further knowledge of God than as a phrase to give But that such men should bind themselves to a this end the various prejudices of the people are point to his profanity. protest against confiding blind submission to the will of others, though it adroitly flattered. The workingman is excited to the defense of Protestantism to the demagogue who might be in opposition to their own sense of l jeolousy of foreign competition. The fears of the knows nothing more of the errors of the Church right--that they should either actively aid, or, by religious Protestant are stimulated by exaggerated of Rome than that it is his part, as a Know-Noth inaction, suffer the elevation of unworthy or in- accounts of the spread of popery throughout the ing, to profess opposition to them, and who can competent men to positions of high public trust- land. In every locality each interest and senui- discuss the doctrines of the Reformation not more that they should bury the truth, by concealing, ment is soothed and caressed, until, from all quar- intelligently than Dickens's raven, which chator violate it by denying their membership of such ters of the Union, men spring up, agreeing intered about “Protestant ketlles" with quite as an association and all this for the purpose of nothing but a willingness to surrender the great much appreciation of congruities. If our religious effecting results so irreconcilable with the teach- principles of constitutional construction which had tenets are to be drawn into argument on the huste ings of an enlarged philanthropy, and so foreign | made them either Democrats or Whigs, and to ingg—if political elections are to turn upon the to the spirit of Christian charity, fills me, not unite in a common organization, which, from the conclusions of voters concerning them-i fear we merely with surprise, but with sadness. Under very nature of the case, must be impotent to shall find among the laymen of the country few whatever delusion they may now be acting, it is accomplish any one of the objects professedly Wilberforces and Soame Jenynges competent to impossible it can be of long continuance. Sır, it is sought. The greater part of what they desire maintain them against the keen assaults of our an instinct of our nature to utter the truth. It cannot be the subject of legislation at all, while li opponents. And though a minister of the gospel requires an effort, and a painful effort, to repress it, the little that is allowed to be brought within the may here and there be found, willing to come down much more to violate it. It cannot be that any sphere of legal enactment, will fall far short of | into the political arena to defend Protestant Chrissophistry can permanently ingraft upon our moral their wishes and expectations.
tianity, and his own title to popular favor, I concode the wretched fallacy that, in our communica- But, sir, were it even otherwise, why organize fess I think it safer to depend on the Barrows tions with one another, it is allowable to deceive, a party for this specific purpose? May not all and the Stillingfleets, the 'Jonathan Edwardses either by the express utterance of falsehoods, or that can be effected by legislative means be safely and Adam Clarks. by a studied concealment of facts. The road to left to the wisdom of those whom the people, as But, sir, what can be more opposed to the structruth never did lie through error; and he who | Whigs or Democrats, invest with authority? Can ture of our Government than any attempt to conthinks he may borrow the livery of the devil to this new society command more talent, more ex- nect questions of conscience with the affairs of serve God in--that he may promote the cause of perience, more patriotism than may be found in Slate? In most countries nearly all the transactions religion by a sacrifice of truth, forgets that it was the existing party? Why, it is from these very of life are subject to the general regulation. Propagainst this very species of falsehood, the punish- parties they have withdrawn themselves, and there erty, liberty, religion, industry, are matters of ment of Ananias and his wife was intended to can surely be no ground for their apprehension governmental control. The rights of the subject
that the public interests will be neglected because are concessions to him from his rulers, not reserWhen I see upright, worthy, pious men-I do consided to men entertaining opinions in accord- vations from his grants to them. But we have not mean your mere men of honor; I speak of far ance with their own upon other subjects of great | made a wide departure from these old systems. nobler characters, men of honesty and conscience- national concernment.
We have determined on self-government-not the yielding to these horrid delusions, plotting, cabal. It is a grave error to suppose that the purposes for government of a majority-not the government of ling, prevaricating, deceiving, my whole moral which the Democratic and Whig parties were or- others, or government by others, but, emphatically, nature receives a shock, and I almost become a ganized have been accomplished, and that they may || self government. Each man retains the very largest skeptic in the existence of human virtue. I am, now be safely disbanded. It is true that some of sum of his personal rights consistent with the therefore, most reluctant to believe that such ob- the most important questions of party antagonism good order of the State, and self-control is relinligations are assumed, or that such practices have been settled; but it was not for these, or for 1 quished only in a few well defined cases, in which prevail. For the sake of our common humanity, any other especial objects that the two parties have the public welfare demands that the will of the I hope they do not. I speak only upon the sup. been called into being. The difference between majority shall prevail. Among the rights thus position that the general charge against them is them is organic, and must, from its very nature, reserved from ihe interference of all others-and correct. If it be not, my animadversion does not be perpetual. Scarcely a day now passes in which not merely reserved, but guarded and fortified-is apply to them; but who shall say they are not questions do not arise invoking the application of that of liberty of conscience. Freedom of relijusily sulyject to it, if it be true?
the distinctive principles of the two great parties. gious faith and religious profession has been ex But, sir, it is not less a duty to confess, to avow, Can it be possible that the Whigs of the country pressly stipulated. We thought this an improveto publish the truth, than to abstain from its viola- hold their ancient doctrines in so little reverence ment upon the systems of the Old World. Other tion. No man has a right to conceal his princi- as to be willing to surrender them to this new or- nations, tou, seena to have thought so, as our ples. It is by an interchange of views that truthganization? Will they abandon principles which, example has not been without its effect in mitiis elicited; and the obligation is almost as great to however erroneous we may deem them, have, gating the rigors of their religious establishment. save others from error as to adopt right principles from the foundation of the Government, divided But a large portion of our people appear to be of for ourselves. Opinions often borrow just weight the American mind, and been dignified by the a different opinion. They would diminish the from the personal character of those who profess advocacy of such illustrious names as those of sum of personal rights and increase the mass them; and they who, from whatever considera- || Hamilton, Marshall, and Webster? Will they li of social powers. They would reëstablish the
331 CONG....20 Sess.
The State of Parties, &c.--Mr. Yates.
Ho. OF Reps.
dependence of religion upon government. They indicate, as I think, the manner in which it will THE STATE OF PARTIES, THE CONDITION OF
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, ings is not so much to assail the religious creed of United States, would dissolve the Government, and
February, 28, 1855. the Catholic, as to guard against the dangers re- produce a catastrophe for which the Constitution
The House being in the Committee of the Whole sulting from his supposed allegiance to a foreign makes no provision. In such an event, so much
on the state of the Union Potentate? Sir, were such allegiance admitted, our to be deplored and which few would not submit
Mr. YATES said: existing laws are entirely adequate to punish the to almost any sacrifice to avert-it would be difftreason it might prompt. For mere opinion they cult, if not impossible, for the States to agree upon
Mr. CHAIRMAN: Some time ago, when the g
egen. apply no penaliy, but opinion, when it induces new conditions of Union. Should the present Con
tleman from Georgia (Mr. STEPHENS) addressed crime, is never allowed to bar the punishment stitution ever be lost, I fear it would not be practi- the committee on the Nebraska question, and the Know-Nothings could not frame more rigorous feel assured, that it would never be by enlarging,
was anxious to have obtained the floor for the purlaws than our statute-book already contains, for but rather by greatly diminishing, the powers now
pose of a reply, and took notes for that purpose. every case of disobedience to the rightful author- delegated to the General Government.
1, however, did not succeed in getting the floor. I ity of our own Government.
It will be seen at a glance, that as new parties had not wholly abandoned my purpose of reply. Another object, sir, attributed to the Know-Noth- are formed in the country, and as new States are
ing, when, on last night, the debate sprang up ings is a repeal or modification of the laws admitting added to the Union, the danger of a failure to afresh, and the positions assumed by the gentleforeigners to naturalization, and the exclusion of choose a President is greatly augmented. When man from Georgia were in substance assumed by foreign-born citizens from civil and political office. the people and their representatives are divided other gentlemen, and I determined, if I could get As to the first point, I cannot but express my, into only two parties the danger is scarcely appre
the floor, to give my views upon the subject. By regret that any attempt should be made to control ciable; but the risk is fearfully enhanced by the your good favor, Mr. Chairman, I now have the ils decision: by invoking prejudices, on the one addition of a third. The number of candidates floor, and shall proceed, not very methodically, I side or the other. It is a simple question of ordi- will increase with the increase of parties. Each fear, to express my views. nary statesmanship and governmental policy, de- will be supported by his retainers and advocates, I was surprised to hear the gentleman from pendent upon the number, habits, character, and and the people, broken into factions, will go divide Georgia say, that the result of the elections returncondition of foreign emigrants; and no man should, their suffrages as not to secure a majority of votes ing to the next Congress an overwhelming majorin advance, announce any fixed determination on to any. Ambition, hatred, pride, revenge, stimu- ity opposed to the repeal of the Missouri com. a subject which, from its very nature, must be | lated by a struggle in which the fiercest passions promise, was no test of the popular sentiment of governed by shifting circumstances. Nor would | might be called into exercise, would disincline all the free States on that subject; when, in fact, in it be more wise to apply an unbending rule to the to yield; and the failure to makea choice-hardly the whole history of legislation, from the first election or appointment of persons of foreign birth possible in a contest between only two competi- | dawnings of our national existence down to the to the various offices of the country. Shall it be tors--would thus precipitate the very calamities present time, no public measure ever met with said, that in a contest between an honest, worthy, which it is the boasted object of this new party to such withering and blasting popular condemnation and well-qualified foreigner, and a native citizen prevent.
as did the Nebraska bill, and its authors and of opposite character, the latter must always be In every aspect, then, in which I view this new abettors. This condemnation has swept over preferred? Is there any occasion for jealousy or society-its origin, progress, objects, doctrines, that measure and its authors like a sirocco, wastklarm, when the people, or the Government, in a practices, and results—there is much to awaken the ling and destroying, to stand forever, I trust, an case of superior merit or qualification, select as most melancholy reflections. It is one of the many effectual and perpetual admonition to politicians, their ageni a foreign-born citizen competent to prodigies that have appeared in these remarkable that sacred compromises are not to be trampled render the service, exacted for their own good times. Sir, is it not strange that this age of unequaled on with impunity; that the great inalienable and rather than for his? I should dislike to see it | enlightenment should, at the same time, be one of eternal principles of freedom and humanity are made a common practice to bestow the offices of unexampled credulity? The wonderful discov- not to be sacrificed to the moloch of ambition, the country upon foreigners, and no sensible eries of science, in seeming to remove every barrier and crushed beneath the iron heel of tyrannical foreigner would desire it should be done. There to human progress, may, perhaps, have led us to legislative majorities. Yes, sir, by the results of are some offices, indeed, such as that of represent- reject all notions of impossibility, and we believe, those elections, American freedom has proudly. ative of our country at a foreign court, in which I too easily, that what may be, is. Superstition and and nobly vindicated herself, and shown herself do not wish to see them at any time. But I think philosophy go hand in hand, because we will not || capable of rising superior to the domination of these things may be safely left to the ordinary distinguish between the actual and the possible. political parties and aspiring political leaders. control and management of the people. They do But we should not have supposed this had we not I repeat, sir, I was astounded at the altempt of not demand or justify the formation of a new party, so many evidences of its truth. One would think the honorable gentleman from Georgia to evade when there is no reason to doubt that the people that these sublime discoveries in physical science the force of this popular condemnation by the of all parties entertain just views upon the sub- would liberalize and elevate the mind. One would plea, that the elections were no lest of the popular ject.
think that the contemplation of the glories revealed sentiment of the country. The speech was absoI must not, however, forbear to mention that to us by astronomy would rebuke every narrow lutely novel'in this fruitless adventure to gloss many editors and politicians, who are now zeal- | prejudice, unite us in one common brotherhood, over a defeat so palpable and glaring. It took the ous defenders of the Know-Nothing organization, and incline us to a common worship of the Creator. House by surprise, and was interesting for its warmly supported the Nebraska bill, which allows Let us think of them a moment. Standing on this very boldness and novelty. Ohio elected her antiunnaturalized foreigners to exercise the privilege little globe-so small that we are hardly more Nebraska Governor with a popular majority of both of voting and holding ofñce. To me, this remote than eight thousand miles from any part eighty thousand, and sent her unbroken delegation provision of the bill was a serious objection, and of its surface-we see the planets of our system of twenty-four members opposed to the Nebraska I desired, as did many others, to confine ihese revolving round the sun, ai distances of hundreds bill, Pennsylvania did almost the same; Indiana, rights to citizens of the United States alone. But i of millions of miles; and beyond them-suns of Iowa, New York, and other States almost the some of those who loudly complain of a foreign other worlds, centers of other systems-the innu- same; and yet, sir, the gentleman from Georgia influence in the country, and are, at this time, in merable hosts of stars, distant from us countless asserted the Nebraska question “had nothing to high favor with the Know-Nothings, first voted to millions of millions of miles. We burn with intense do with it.” Now, sir, it so happens, it is a part cut off all opportunity of amendment or change, desire to know something of these bright orbs. of the history of the times--and history of such and then gave their votes for the bill in the form We wonder whether-as some philosophers, rea- recent occurrence, that to deny it is strange indeed, in which it passed.
soning from the strong analogies of nature, main- --that almost the only question discussed in a! The preservation of the Union is said, sir, to be tain—they are the abode of beings like ourselves; || these elections was the Nebraska bill. Every one of the objects of the Know-Nothings. This, or whether, as the sterner logic of some others political paper teemed with its columns full, pra indeed, is sometimes claimed as the chief merit, if would almost force us to conclude, they are a and con., on this question. The old questions of not the prominent design, of the society. To be dreary chaos; and we are impatient of the restraints tariff and internal improvement were lost sight of, sure, this is a very praise worthy purpose, in that bind us to our narrow home.
and the contest was fought, hand 10 hand and hilt which, I trust, they will not be alone; but their From such contemplations as these, we turn to hilt, upon the bill of Judge Douglas and the active agency is as unnecessary, as it is likely to our eyes to the petty globe we inhabit-a mere Administration to repeal the law of 1820, which prove mischievous. I know no greater danger speck, an atom, not illing, in the comparison, the had forever consecrated the Territories of Kansas ihat threatens the Union than the organization of space of the point of the finest needle—and see man, i and Nebraska to freedom. That other matters this Know-Nothing party itself. I have no fear repulsing his fellow as an alien and a foreigner, were brought collaterally into the contest, as they of a dissolution of the Union from a voluntary and grudging him even the poor privilege of learn- are in every election, I do not deny; but that the secession of any of its members. There never ing something more of his own little earth. Nebraska question was the great, the controlling, was a time when I myself would have consented Šir, it is when beholding these sclecisms in human the dominant question, no man can truthfully to secession, as there has never been an occasion il conduct, we feel most perplexed as to the ultimate deny. The issue had been made up in the Senate that, in my opinion, justly provoked it.
designs of the Creator; and with a just apprecia- and the House at the last session. It was made And yet, sir, there are dangers to the Union-re- tion of our own nescience, each one of us is ready by the Senator from Illinois, who all the time procurringat periodical intervals, exciting no apprehen- to exclaim with Socrates, “ I know nothing-all claimed that he was ready to go before the people sions-but which, if dissolution should ever come, l) that I know is, that I KNOW NOTHING."
upon the merits of his bill.
that O OU laver paris didat our exter torn
33d Cong....20 Sess.
The State of Parties, &c.-Mr. Yates.
Ho. or REPS.
The issue was made by the gentleman from majority for the Nebraska candidate increased bear the mighty impress of freedom, yet " crook Georgia, when he said, at the last session of Con- over the preceding election, and that was in the the pregnant hinges of the knee" lo slavery for the gress, in the language of bold defiance, that “the Quincy district, represented by my friend and sake of promotion and official station. The slave South had triumphed on every question, when the colleague, (Mr. RICHARDSON.) And, sir, though himself, groaning beneath his fetters, is far more issue- had been made, and she would triumph he, perhaps, would be unwilling to admit the fact, deserving of our admiration than the cringing, again on this question." And, sir, when the mi- yet, sir, I am well convinced that he was more fawning sycophant, the northern man with southnority in this House, after a long and protracted indebted to his great personal popularity, than to ern principles. The one eats the bread of well. struggle, unprecedented in the annals of congres- his position on the Nebraska question. That earned, though involuntary, servitude; the other sional legislation, were overborne by a subversion gentleman had served his country with distin-the iniquitous wages of voluntary subserviency of the rules of the House, they then notified the guished credit to himself in our war with Mexico, and debasement. We have found at the North majority that they would make their appeal to the and with great ability in the Legislature, and in men who, at different points of time in the history people.' And, sir, they made that appeal. Dis- | this House, for many years, and also possessing of the slavery question, were ready to smother the carding all old issues, the friends and opponents | sterling qualities of head and heart, a noble and spirit of free discussion, to trample in the dust the of the Kansas-Nebraska bill met each other on the magnanimous nature, he had a grasp. upon the sacred right of petition, to close the United States stump, through the press, and at the ballot-box; l affections of his constituents which his position mails to papers opposed to slavery, and last, not and the popular decision has been emphatic and on the Nebraska question could not affeci. But, I least, to gag the mouths of the ministers of the unmistakable. The result was the overthrow of sir, there were other elections more signal-the living God against denouncing what they deemed an Administration which, but two years before, elections of members to the Leg ature. I think to be wrong. I speak not of southern 'men, but had ridden into power upon a tempest of popularity. I may safely say, that during the last twelve years of northern men, with professed southern princi. The result was a serious and lasting back.set to there has been no period, until now, when the plesmen who, having deserted the North, would that northern Senator, who had volunteered the Legislature of Ilinois was not two thirds Demo- play Dalgetty to the South, as soon as "thrift" in surrender of the principles dear to the people of cratic. And yet, sir, notwithstanding only about lihat direction " should not follow fawning.” his own State, and who had trampled upon the one half of the Senators were newly-elected at the Another important thing, sir, in relation to the sentiment which animates, warms, and sways the late canvass, yet we find a large majority of the Illinois election, I state what I have no doubt is northern heart in favor of liberty and humanity. Legislature passing resolutions condemnatory of true, that the condemnation of the Nebraska bill It is said that the Know Nothings had a great deal the course of their Senators in voting for the would have been almost unanimous, but for the to do with the result. Does this make the anti- Nebraska bill, condemnatory of the bill itself, in argument so pertinaciously urged by its friends Nebraska triumph less complete? Are not the favor of the restoration of the Missouri compro- in that State, chat there was not the least probaKnow-Nothings American citizens? and if they mise, and electing triumphantly to the Senate of bility that slavery could ever exist in Kansas cast their vote for the anti-Nebraska candidates, the United States a gentleman who had distin- ll under the Kansas laws; that the slaveholder had was it not because they preferred them to candi- guished himself by his able and eloquent oppo- no right to take his slave there; that the slave dates entertaining opposite sentiments? It cannot psition to the Nebraska bill, and had been elected would be free the moment he got there, that the be contended that their voie was a mere blind force, on that issue, in a largely Democratic district, over laws of God, of climate, of physical geography, so far as this issue is concerned; for how, then, the regular nominee of the Democratic party, by forever prohibited sla very there. They were told will you explain the fact that nearly all the mem- a majority of two thousand three hundred and that it was not the object of the repeal of the Mis. bers recenily elected to the next Congress are twenty-two votes.
souri compromise to establish slavery, but the anti Nebraska; for, if the Know-Nothings aided Here, then, is the triumph of the gentleman great principles of self-government-and the delu. in their election, and the vote was a blind one, was from Georgia in the State where he says the issue sive authority of Senator BADGER and other dis. there not an equal chance of its falling on the Ne- was fairly presented, and where the distin- tinguished Southerners was quoted to show that braska side of the question? The truth was, sir, guished Senator had met the people, never giving Kansas would not become a slave State. There that not only Know-Nothings, but a large portion ground, or yielding an inch. Yes, Mr. Chair. was but one opinion in that State upon the subject of our German and English population, hostile to man, a mighty effort was made to carry Illinois; of the extension of slave Territory. The popular slavery in all its forms, cast their votes, in many the young giant was there, but he was there with sentiment of the State on that question is not to be parts of the country, for the anti-Nebraska can- his locks cut; shorn of his strength, he was there mistaken. No more slave l'erritories or slave didates. I am most happy here to declare that, in to meet an indignant constituency. He returned States to be made out of our common territories, is our State, among the strongest opponents to the to that people, not as he did of yore. They had a sentiment as indelibly written upon the popular extension of slavery is a large part of our foreign- heaped their highest honors upon him. More mind and heart of Illinois, as is beauty and fertility born population.
dexterous and politic than his equals and supe- upon the bosom of her prairies. To have admitted But it is to the State of Illinois, to which I wish riors in his own party, he had got upon the cur- that there was the least chance for the admission particularly to refer. The gentleman from Geor- reot of popular favor in that party, which was of Kansas as a slave State under the operation of gia sajd, in his speech, “if there is a State in the powerful and dominant in the State, and favored the Kansås and Nebraska bill, was to have North which may be appealed to, where there by good fortune and favorable breezes, he had stamped that bill with the seal of universal reprowas anything like a contest, it was Illinois.” been borne, almost without opposition, to the bation. Hence, sir, the pretense, the evasion, the " The Nebraska bill gained strength in Illinois." highest honors of the State and the nation. En- delusive argument that Kansas must and would be He says that "the distinguished Senator, who | joying the full confidence of a generous and impul- || free. Why, it was asked, agitate the country for had charge of the bill in the Senate, stood in sive party, such as I admit the Democratic party a restoration of the Missouri compromise, when front of the battle, never giving ground, -never of my State to be, he had been greeted, on his it could not alter the status of the Territory as to yielding an inch; and the gallant gentleman upon return, at the end of each session, to his constitu.. l slavery, and when Kansas must inevitably be free this floor, (Mr. RICHARDSON,] who had charge of ents, from his duties in the National Councils, with whether the compromise was restored or not? it here, met the people of Minois everywhere on its the cordial salutations of welcome. But when he These were the arguments which enabled the merits.” Now, sir, a few facts will show, that returned at the end of the last session, he returned friends of the Nebraska bill to carry with them 80 far from an indorsement of the Nebraska bill to meet a people whose kindness he had slighted, the minority which they did in the State of Ilinois. by the people of the State of Ilinois, ils condem- and whose repeated favors he had returned by a Otherwise, sir, that minority would not have been nation there was more signal and decisive than in ruthless and successful attempt to destroy a sacred a corporal's guard. It was in vain that we pointed any other State in the Union. If this is the only compact for freedom, which, according to his own that minority to the locality of Kansas, with Mis. fountain, from which the gentleman is to drink the declarations to them just four years before, had souri a slaveholding State on the east, and Arkan. waters of consolation, he will find them bitter to s stood for a quarter of a century, and been ap. sas and Texas on the south-and that the slavethe taste. Now, sir, let it be recollected that, in proved by men of all parties in every section of holder of the South, with eyes ever open to behold 1852, Illinois was the banner State of Democracy, the Union, and canonized in the hearts of the and hands ever outstretched to grasp each new and that, while all other States had at some time American people as a sacred thing, which no field for slave labor, would be the first on account failed in the hour of trial, the State of Illinois had ruthless hand would ever be reckless enough to of near neighborhood, to preoccupy the Territory never faltered in its fealty to the Democratic party. disturb.” The result is before the world. The of Kansas, and to write upon the tabula rasa (as At the presidential election in 1852, General Senator has his reward. The Allies may take they called it) in colors, dark and durable, the Pierce carried the State by the large majority of | Sebastopol, but he will never take Mlinois again; blackening lines of human bondage. It was in sixteen thousand votes.
he has had his trial in that State, and the verdict vain that we showed that slavery had eaten and Now, sir, if we take the election for State of an honest and high-minded people has been occupied up to the very fence erected against treasurer as a test, as the gentleman from Georgia pronounced, and from that verdict he will not re- it by the Missouri compromise, and that if that did, we find that Governor Moore, the popular cover as long as “grass grows or water flows. fence was removed, it would go over and occupy candidate of the Democratic party, carried the There are thousands of slaveholders at the South the consecrated heritage of freerlom; it was in vain election over his competitor, who was brought out who regard slavery as an evil, but who see no that we showed that there was nothing in the just before the election, without any organization | remedy for it, but to treat it wisely and humanely, locality, latitude, soil, or climate, rendering it unfit for that purpose, by the meager majority of some- and who look forward, with hopeful anxiety, to for slave occupation; that slavery was as profit. thing over two thousand votes. I deny, however, its ultimate extinction. There is another class | able in the western part of Missouri, and would
The truest test was in the who believe slavery is right, and, therefore, they also be in Kansas, fine hemp growing and tobacco election of members to Congress; and here we find advocate it. For both these classes I entertain producing regions, as it was on the sugar and colthat the popular majority given for the anti- respect; for, sir, let a man be true to his convic- con plantations of the South; it was in vain we Nebraska members for Congress was sixteen tions, though he believe a lie! but how shall.we showed that Indiana would have been a slnve thousand two hundred and forty-seven. Three | feel other than the most unmitigated contempt State but for the prohibitory ordinance of 1787, Representatives were elected to Congress favor- ) for the political schemers who, taught in all the and that her Territorial Legislature had peticioned able to the Kangas-Nebraska bill, four opposed to inspiring lessons of freedom, in northern climes, Congress five times for the suspension of that it, and the remaining one is to be decided upon a where the very mountains, rivers, and skies, as ordinance. It was in vain we referred to the percontested election. In one district only was the lI well as the charters and constitutions of society, 11 severing effort of slavery to get a foothold in the
that this was a