No. 8.

I, MEDDIE GALLANT, of Big Mimnigash, in Prince County, in Prince Edward Island, fisherman and fish-dealer, make oath and say:

1. That I have been engaged in fishing for the last twelve years. I have fished myself entirely from boats. I also owned a vessel called the "Break-of-day," for two years engaged in fishing. I am acquainted with the fishing grounds from this part of the island round Tiguish, New London, Rustico, and nearly round to the east point of this island. I have also been in the herring fishing at the Magdalen Islands.

2. That there about two hundred and forty boats now engaged in fishing between Campbellton, on this shore, and the North Cape of this island a distance of about twenty-two miles. From the North Cape to Cape Kildare there are at least one hundred and sixty boats engaged in fishing. From Kildare Cape to Cascumpec Harbor there are at least eighty boats engaged in fishing.

3. In the last five years the number of boats engaged in fishing in the above distances has at least doubled. At this run alone there has been a very great increase. Eight years ago there were only eight boats belonging to this run, now there are forty-five. The boats are twice as good in material, fishing outfit, in sailing, in equipment, in rigging, and in every way, as they were five years ago. There is a great deal more money invested in fishing now than there was. Nearly every one is now going into the business about here. The boats, large and small together, take crews of about three men each. That is besides the men employed at the stages about the fish, who are a considerable number.

4. The reasons for the increase in the number of boats and in the capital invested in the business are, that people find it pays. It has always, even in the worst years, paid us here. Another reason is that people are getting so numerous that they have to go into fishing as a means of support. They cannot get employment in other ways, and there is not enough land for them, and they are always able to make good wages. I never yet knew a year when a man would not make good wages if he stuck to the fishing. When I was fishing myself in a small boat I used to make from fifty to sixty dollars a month off my own line.

5. That there is a class of men springing up who are entirely devoted to fishing, and make their living by it and by nothing else. This class has only begun to come on within the last few years.

6. That in the summer of 1874, which was a good fishing year, my own boats, four in number, caught eleven hundred barrels of mackerel, or two hundred and seventy-five barrels each boat. One man in one of these boats caught twenty-six thousand three hundred mackerel on his own line, and the lowest number caught by any fisherman on board my boats was about seventeen thousand mackerel. Three of those boats carried three hands each, and the fourth boat carried four hands. In the year 1875 my boats, six in number, averaged eighty barrels each; they also got some ling and codfish. Last year, which was the worst year we ever had, we caught in my boats, seven in number, an average of seventy barrels of mackerel each boat. We do not do much in cod and hake fishing here. This year gives good signs of good mackerel fishing, as the mackerel are now much thicker than usual in the bay, and we have already caught some. Taking one year with another, for the last five years, the average catch of mackerel for each of my boats has been one hundred and twenty barrels. My average catch is, I

believe, the largest on this shore; the other boats would average about one hundred barrels each. This is on the south side of the North Cape.

7. The best mackerel fishing we ever have here is about two miles off the shore. Three-quarters, and in fact nearly the whole, of the mackerel are caught within three miles of the shore.

8. The American fishing-schooners generally come down here fishing about the 1st of July, and stop till October. I have seen three or four hundred sail of them out here fishing. Last year there were not quite so many. They fish right in among the boats. When the Americans see the boats getting fish they come right in among them, and the boats have to move away and give them room. They take the school of mackerel from the boats, and the boats have to move away somewhere else to try to raise the fish. I have often seen this done by the American schooners. I have seen boats come ashore with their spars knocked out by the Yankee schooners. The way they take the mackerel off is that they come in among the boats and throw their bait, which is generally better than ours, and then, instead of lying to anchor, they drift off, carrying the mackerel with them. They thus cause great loss and injury to our boat-fishing.

9. Before the American schooners come around we generally have good fishing, but when they come we find our fishing begin to slack off; it is not so good. They throw so much bait that small schools of mackerel are sunk and feed on the bottom, and we sometimes have bad fishing for a fortnight after that. The Americans clean their fish on board of their vessels and throw the offal overboard, and that destroys the fishing. When we used to gib the mackerel on the fishing ground and throw the gibs and refuse over, we always found that the fish left the place, so that we had to give up cleaning out on the fishing ground, and now we bury the offal on shore, so that it will not get into the run and be carried out to the fishing grounds. I therefore believe that the American practice of throwing the offal overboard does great injury to the mackerel and other fisheries. It surfeits the fish and frightens them off.

10. When the cutters were about here they used to frighten the American schooners off a good deal, but the cutters that were here were too big for the purpose. Their smoke could be seen ten and fifteen miles off, and that gave the schooners plenty of time generally to escape. I have often seen the American schooners clearing out to sea on an alarm of the cutter's approach. I believe a few schooners of sixty or seventy tons each, well fitted out and well manned, would, as cutters, be quite sufficient to protect all the inshore fisheries. Ten would certainly be enough. The reason the schooners would make the best cutters is that they could not be readily distinguished from the American schooners, and some of them could always be on the ground.

11. The right of transshipment is of very great value to the Americans. It saves them at least three weeks each trip, and that right in the very best of the fishing season. That, in the season, would be fully equal to a trip saved to the schooners. They can come into our ports and discharge their catches, and take out another outfit, and lose little or no time, not more than two or three days. They can always get refitted here. They can get their fish into the market much quicker owing to this right. They are enabled to catch good markets. The mackerel-market is a very uncertain one, and it is a great advantage to be able to send the fish into it on short notice; and owing to the right of trans-shipment, mackerel can now be sent to Boston in four or five days, instead of taking three or four weeks. The fish are also better by

being sent in quick. I have found, by actual experience, that the longer mackerel are kept on board of the vessels the worse they get, and a week or ten days less on board makes a big difference. When left on board long the mackerel get knocked about and get to look bad; they also get warm and the pickle often sours on them.

12. The herring fishery around this island is very valuable, as to it the island fishermen owe their supply of bait, and they also use the herring for home consumption.

13. At the Magdalen I have seen the Americans seining herring, and loading large vessels with them. They seine the herring close in to the shore, and get large quantities of them. In the spring of 1876, when I was down herring-fishing at the Magdalen Islands, there were over two hundred sail of American vessels fishing for herring, and they were all fishing right inshore. The Americans not only take the herring home from the Magdalen Islands, but also ship them away to the West Indies and to other markets. That herring fishery is a very valuable one.

14. The mackerel generally strike the Magdalen Islands first and then come down here. Experienced fishermen know how the mackerel come, and take advantage of that knowledge. The Americans know all about the habits of the mackerel and follow them. As soon as the mackerel get scarce at the Magdalen Islands the Americans come right down to this island after them.

MEDDIE GALLANT.

Sworn to at Big Mimnigash, in Prince County, in Prince Edward Island, this 30th day of June, A. D. 1877, before me.

JOSEPH MACGILVRAY,

J. P. for Prince County, Prince Edward Island.

No. 9.

I, JAMES SKERRY, of Cascumpec, in Prince County, Prince Edward Island, fisherman, make oath and say:

1. That I have been in the fishing business, one way or another, for over ten years, most of the time in boats and three years in American schooners.

2. That the number of boats along this shore has increased in the past few years, and the boats are a great deal better. The boats, taking one with another, average about four hands each.

3. That I sailed in the fishing schooner Lady Franklin, of the State of Massachusetts, on a fishing trip in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, about eight years ago, and two years later in the American schooner Gamecock of Boston.

4. That we came into the bay in the Lady Franklin about the twentieth of July, and fished until sometime in November. She was about sixtyfour tons burden, and carried sixteen hands. We caught about two hundred and seventy-five barrels of mackerel in her; that was a poor

season.

5. That I went into the bay in the Gamecock about the 1st of August, and stopped in the bay till sometime in November. She was about 90 tons burden, and carried 18 or 19 hands. We landed one load of fish in Charlottetown out of her and then went into the bay again. The trip we landed in Charlottetown we had about 400 barrels of mackerel. The second trip we did very badly; only taking about 50 barrels. 6. There is certainly a great advantage to be able to transship. Another trip could very nearly be made while going home with a load of fish and refitting. By being able to transship here that time is saved,

and when the markets are up it is a great advantage to be able to transship and catch the market. The schooners can refit here just as cheaply as at home, and without losing much time.

7. The fishing grounds are best near the shore. The best catches the Americans ever make is in near the shore. The best fishing grounds are at the Magdalen Islands, up the Bay Chaleur, and at the north side of Prince Edward Island. In all these places they fish in near the shore. I should say that fully three-quarters of the mackerel caught on board the vessels in which I fished were caught close inshore. The way the Americans do is to come inshore, throw bait, and drift off, carrying the fish off with them. The Americans could never make good catches when kept from fishing within three miles of the shore. It would not be much worth their while to come into the bay at all, if they could not fish within three miles.

8. When the cutters were about they did a great deal of harm to the American fishing. When the cutters hove in sight the vessels, even if they were getting the mackerel, had to leave and make off the land. Half a dozen schooners, as cutters, would keep the American fishermen clear of the fishing places off this island.

9. The American schoouers do a great deal of harm to the island fishermen. They come in and heave quantities of bait and drift off the shore, drawing the mackerel after them. They are also a great nuisance, as they come in and lee-bow the boats; that is, they run up to leeward of the boats, and throw bait and sail up under the lee-bow of the boats, drawing the fish clear away from the boats.

10. This year promises to be a good year for mackerel. I have seen more schools of mackerel this year already than I have seen any year during the last six years.

JAMES SKERRY.

Sworn to at Cascumpec, in Prince County, Prince Edward Island, this 30th day of June, A. D. 1877, before me.

JOSEPH MACGILVRAY,

J. P. for Prince County, Prince Edward Island.

No. 10.

I, JOHN CHAMPION, of Cascumpec, in Prince County, Prince Edward Island, fisherman, make oath and say:

1. That I have been engaged in fishing for ten years, and have a practical acquaintance with all its details. Part of my experience has been in boats, and four years in island schooners, of which I was master, and one summer in an American fishing schooner.

1. That there are fully fifty boats sailing out of Cascumpec Harbor engaged in fishing. During the last five years the number of boats along this shore engaged in fishing have fully doubled. The boats are very much better than they were then; they are now a splendid class of boats. I do not think they can be much better. They are better in sailing, better sea-boats, and better equipped in every way for fishing.

2. That the reason I would assign for the increase in the number of boats is that people find that the fishing business is a paying one.

3. The average crew of the boats all through, large and small, would be four men each, clear of the men employed about the fish ashore; there are a considerable number of men employed on shore in connection with the boats.

4. That the average catch of codfish per boat, out of this harbor, would be about one hundred quintals. They would average at least twenty-five barrels of herring a boat, but all the boats do not go in for herring fishing, or the average for each boat would be much larger; if all fished the average would be one hundred barrels, worth $3 a barrel. The average catch of mackerel per boat would be about eighty barrels, some catch more and some less, worth $8 a barrel.

5. The mackerel are nearly all caught inside of three miles of the shore, that is the best fishing for both codfish and mackerel. The half of the codfish are caught within three miles of the shore.

6. The sounds of the bake are an important item in fishing, there are about three pounds of sounds to the quintal of hake. Each boat lands on an average about one hundred and fifty pounds of sounds in a year. The sounds are worth from eighty cents up to a dollar and a quarter per pound. There is also about a gallon of oil, worth about sixty cents, to the quintal of hake, so that the sounds and oil are worth considerably more than the fish from which they are taken.

7. That the sea lobster-fishery is very valuable in this part, and is now being pretty extensively prosecuted. The best and nearly all the lobsters are caught out to sea, from half a mile to one mile from the shore. The lobster-fishery is increasing. There are now about five thousand lobsters a day caught here.

8. That I commanded the island schooner Alberton for three years, commencing in the year 1868. She fished each year, but only for about two months each season. She was twenty-eight tons burden, and carried a crew of ten hands. The first year she took about two hundred barrels of mackerel; the second year she did about the same. In fact, she averaged two hundred barrels of mackerel each year. She did not fish the whole season any year.

9. That I commanded the island schooner Bay State in the year 1873. She was also of twenty-eight tons burden, and carried ten hands. She did not fish quite two months. She took one hundred and seventy-five barrels of mackerel.

10. That in the year 1872 I fished for two months in the bay on board the American schooner Flying Fish, of seventy-five tons burden, carrying eighteen hands. She lauded five hundred barrels of mackerel, only making the one trip.

11. The principal part of the schooner fishing is done within three miles of the shore. Some of the American vessels do all their fishing inshore. About three-quarters of the fishing done by the Flying Fish was done inshore.

12. That I do not think that it would be any advantage whatever for the Canadians or islanders to have the right to fish on the American coasts. We would not bother with it, as our own fisheries are so much better. There is an occasional good year for fishing on their shores, but not very often. Last year was a good year on their coasts.

13. On an average, there are eight hundred American vessels engaged in the cod, hake, and mackerel fisheries in the bay-that is, including this island coast, the Magdalen Islands, the New Brunswick and Nova Scotian coasts. There have been as many as fifteen hundred sail in a season, according to their own accounts. I myself have seen three hundred sail of them in a day.

14. That the American schooners do a great deal of harm to the boat fishing. They have run into boats; they come in and lee-bow the boats regularly; they also come in and throw large quantities of bait, and