Mr. DENNIS. Will the gentleman yield? If the gentleman from Missouri or New Jersey will indulge us both for a moment, and he seems to have indulged you Mr. SEIBERLING. Well, it is parliamentary inquiry, which I think is in order. Mr. DENNIS. Well, may I respond to the gentleman's parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman? Mr. SEIBERLING. As to what the thing means. Mr. DENNIS. Well, sure. In my judgment, as I said a minute ago, it means that when we are through hearing testimony, we go public. Now, if it worries anybody, I would be perfectly willing to strike out "and when the committee is ready to report," and say "at the conclusion of its hearings." it. Mr. SEIBERLING. I think that would be an improvement. Mr. DENNIS. I will accept that amendment, if anyone wants to offer Mr. SEIBERLING. I will so offer the amendment to the amendment to strike the words "and when the committee is ready to report." I ask unanimous consent. Mr. DENNIS. That is what it means to my mind anyway. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman asked to defer a parliamentary inquiry. Mr. SEIBERLING. Well, I will ask unanimous consent, Mr. Chairman, to delete the words "and when the committee is ready to report." Mr. WIGGINS. Reserving the right to object, Mr. Chairman, I will not object on the theory that any perfecting of a bad idea is better than nothing. But it is still fatal. It still requires a public presentation of the evidentiary material that is in advance of our decision. And I would hope that all members here would make that decision absent the kind of pressure that is going to be put on us as soon as this material goes public. Mr. SEIBERLING. Does the gentleman object? Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman? Mr. DONOHUE. Mr. Chairman? The CHAIRMAN. The previous question has been moved on the amendment. Mr. DONOHUE. Would the gentleman from New Jersey withhold. that until I pose a question? Mr. SANDMAN. Yes. Mr. DONOHUE. What I would like to inquire of you, Mr. Chairman, or any one of the members of this committee, is there any precedent for us publishing hearings before we have completed them? The CHAIRMAN. I do not know that there has not been any precedent. Mr. DONOHUE. I have been around a few years and I never recall any publication of hearings before any committee until such time as the hearings were completed. The CHAIRMAN. The presentation of the committee at this time has been completed and there have been numerous instances where transcripts have been published and made available to the members. Mr. DONOHUE. Well, I want to say this, I cannot recall any. 41-018-75-pt. 3-11 Mr. DONOHUE. Now, when might you be able to furnish one to me. Mr. Chairman? The CHAIRMAN. Well Mr. HUNGATE. Mr. Chairman, would the gentleman from New Jersey withhold for just a short-it might be appropriate and it may not be, and certainly no one here is referred to in this, but the difficulty over the language and its interpretation is similar to one of the stories about a gentleman speaking on the floor of the House under the 5-minute rule. And he got done with the 5-minute rule, and he got a unanimous consent for another 5 minutes. And he sought unanimous consent for another one, and one fellow that really did not like him anyway objected and he said: "Reserving the right to object," he said, "I have heard the gentleman talking down there now for 10 minutes and I just would like for him to tell me whether he is for or against this legislation." And the other fellow looked up and said: "Well, I am glad you asked that question, the distinguished gentleman, because I remember the day he came down here and came through those doors and he stood before the Speaker and he raised his hand and took the oath of office, and I pointed to him then and I said, now, there is a man that no matter how long he is here, he will never know what is going on." The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Indiana. All those in favor of the amendment please say aye. [Chorus of "ayes."] The CHAIRMAN. All those opposed? [Chorus of "noes."] The CHAIRMAN. The noes appear to have it. Mr. DENNIS. Mr. Chairman, I will ask for a rollcall. The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman demand a rollcall? Mr. DENNIS. Uh, huh. The CHAIRMAN. The clerk will call the roll, and those in favor of the amendment offered by Mr. Dennis, please say aye, and all those opposed, no. Mr. MANN. Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Mann. Mr. MANN. Are the words after the word "hearing" striken from the proposed amendment? Mr. DENNIS. Right. I understand they were. Mr. SEIBERLING. I am unclear as to what happened on that. Mr. DENNIS. "At the conclusion of its hearings," you asked unanimous consent and nobody objected. Mr. SEIBERLING. But I do not know what the chairman's ruling was. I am under the impression The CHAIRMAN. There was no objection, so that was amended. Mr. SEIBERLING. Fine. All right. The CLERK. Mr. Donohue. Mr. DONOHUE. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Brooks. Mr. BROOKS. No. The CLERK. Mr. Kastenmeier. Mr. KASTENMEIER. No. The CLERK. Mr. Edwards. Mr. EDWARDS. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Conyers. The CLERK. Mr. Eilberg. The CLERK. Mr. Waldie. The CLERK. Mr. Flowers. Mr. FLOWERS. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Sarbanes. The CLERK. Mr. Seiberling. The CLERK. Mr. Danielson. Mr. DRINAN. No. The CLERK. Mr. Rangel. Mr. RANGEL. No. The CLERK. Ms. Jordan. Ms. JORDAN. No. The CLERK. Mr. Thornton. Mr. THORNTON. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Holtzman. Ms. HOLTSMAN. No. The CLERK. Mr. Owens. Mr. OWENS. No. The CLERK. Mr. Mezvinsky. Mr. MEZVINSKY. No. The CLERK. Mr. Hutchinson. Mr. HUTCHINSON. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. McClory. Mr. McCLORY. NO. The CLERK. Mr. Smith. The CLERK. Mr. Hogan. The CLERK. Mr. Butler. The CLERK. Mr. Cohen. Mr. COHEN. No. The CLERK. Mr. Lott. Mr. LOTT. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Froehlich. The CLERK. Mr. Moorhead. Mr. MARAZITI. No. The CLERK. Mr. Latta. Mr. LATTA. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Rodino. The CHAIRMAN. No. The CLERK. Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. The clerk will report. The CLERK. Seventeen members have voted aye, 21 members have voted no. The CHAIRMAN. And the amendment is not agreed to. Mr. McCLORY. I move the previous question. The CHAIRMAN. The question now occurs on the motion of the gentleman from Utah, as amended by the gentleman from Illinois. All those in favor please say aye. [Chorus of "ayes."] The CHAIRMAN. All those opposed? [Chorus of "noes."] Mr. KASTENMEIER. Recorded vote. The CHAIRMAN. And a recorded vote is demanded and the clerk will call the roll. All those in favor please say aye and all those opposed, no. Mr. FLOWERS. No. The CLERK. Mr. Mann. The CLERK. Mr. Sarbanes. Mr. DRINAN. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Rangel. Mr. RANGEL. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Jordan. Ms. JORDAN. No. The CLERK. Mr. Thornton. Mr. THORNTON. NO. The CLERK. Ms. Holtzman. Ms. HOLTZMAN. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Owens. The CLERK. Mr. Mezvinsky. The CLERK. Mr. Hutchinson. Mr. HUTCHINSON. No. The CLERK. Mr. McClory. Mr. MCCLORY. Ave. The CLERK. Mr. Smith. Mr. SMITH. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Sandman. Mr. SANDMAN. No. The CLERK. Mr. Railsback. Mr. RAILSBACK. Ave. The CLERK. Mr. Dennis. Mr. DENNIS. No. The CLERK. Mr. Fish. Mr. FISH. No. The CLERK. Mr. Mayne. Mr. MAYNE. No. The CLERK. Mr. Hogan. Mr. HOGAN. No. |