MR. PRICE-Do you run the works?

MR. CHAMBERS-No, sir; we have not interfered with them at all. The same superintendent and the same men are there. All we did when we took possession of the works was to say 10 the superintendent, "Do the best you can." We furnished them everything they needed to carry on the work.

MR. PRICE-Are you still running the works?

MR. CHAMBERS-Yes, sir. Since the paper I have read was written I have had an opportunity afforded me of obtaining information on two or three points connected with the manufacture of this gas. A week ago to-day the superintendent of those works called upon me and told me that if I would step around with him I could see one of the difficulties which they had to encounter, in regard to the obstruction that took place in the pipe leading from the works to the nolder. I found the pipe was all dug up, and they were scraping out the inlet pipe to the holder with their hoes, and were clearing out a quantity of tar, or matter of some kind, which was beginning to obstruct the pipe. The other point was, that one of their super-heaters had failed to work, and upon taking out bricks from the inside it was found partially closed up with carbon. The point about that is this, that we do not, by this process escape the troubles that are incident to gas making from naphtha, from coal, and from other methods, but we find the very same troubles here. There is the stopping of the pipes and the clogging up of these super-heaters with carbon. So we see it is not all plain sailing by this process, any more than it is by the ordinary process.

MR. PEARSON-I would like to inquire if the gas is purified? MR. CHAMBERS-No, sir.

MR. PEARSON-Did the gas go through any purification, except the operation of the scrubbers?

MR. CHAMBERS-No, sir.

MR. PEARSON-With reference to what you have said in regard to this obstruction of the pipes, and of the burners, could it not be traced directly to the want of purification? Would not the same trouble occur with coal gas, if it were sent to consumers without any purification, beyond scrubbing? I

am inclined to think there would be just as much trouble. I think it is a matter that deserves some attention at our hands, and while I am upon the subject, I will say that I have made some investigations in regard to this method of gas making. I have visited the Lowe gas process works, at Harrisburgh and Baltimore, and other points, with a view to ascertaining various facts in regard to the manufacture of gas by this process, and I have some data which I think will be of some interest to the members of this Association. I am not a Lowe gas process man, but I am seeking for light-for cheap light, and for good light-and I presume that every one here is actuated by the same motive, and that we are all willing to discuss this question, with a view to our profit and benefit, individually, as well as representatives of gas companies.

MR. PRICE-The hour of five o'clock has now arrived-the time fixed by resolution for adjournment-and I suppose the further discussion of this question had better be postponed until morning.

On motion of Mr. Neal, the Association adjourned until tomorrow morning, at ten o'clock.

SECOND DAY.

The Association met at 10 A. M., in the Fifth Avenue Hall, and was called to order by the President, Gen. Roome.

On motion of Mr. Neal, the reading of the minutes of yesterday's proceedings was dispensed with.

SECRETARY pro tem-Before we proceed to the discussion of the paper, I would like to give notice, as a matter of form, that the Executive Committee have submitted an amendment to the Constitution. It requires no action on the part of the Association, at this time; but our Constitution requires that notice shall be given of proposed amendments to the Constitution at one meeting, and that it shall be acted upon at the next. The amendment proposed is to Section II, and is as follows:

Insert, after the word committee, the following: "And that a change of at least one Vice-President, one member of the

Finance Committee, and two members of the Executive Committee, be made at each annual meeting of the Association."

There have been presented, properly certified and endorsed, for membership, Mr. Henry Y. Attrill, Director in the New Orleans Gas Light Company, and also, in the Laclede Gas Light Company, of St. Louis, Mo.; and Andrew A. Smalley, President of the Citizens Gas Light Company, of Newark, N. J.; and I move that they be elected in the usual form.

The motion was carried. The chair appointed Mr. Neal as teller.

The secretary pro tem cast the ballot as directed. Mr. Neal reported the gentlemen named duly elected active members of the Association.

THE PRESIDENT—There was a paper under discussion when we adjourned last evening-the paper read by Mr. Chambers, on the subject of Water Gas."

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MR. PEARSON-I am sorry that the discussion was not continued last evening, because there are some points in Mr. Chambers' paper, which, I fear, may have been forgotten. Before giving any of my experience, or the results of my investigations, I would like to ask Mr. Chambers a question or two, which, I suppose, he will have no objection to answer. I should like to know whether the cost per 1,000 feet of gas, which he stated to be 90 or 94 cents, was for the gas in the holder, or for gas sold?

MR. CHAMBERS-It was for gas sold.

MR. PEARSON-I should like, also, to know how the gas was measured; whether there was a station meter, or how the amount was arrived at?

MR. CHAMBERS-There was no station meter ever erected at those works; and, consequently, the only method of measurement was by the gas sold.

MR. PEARSON-Have you any idea of how much leakage there was?

MR. CHAMBERS-I have not; I don't think the leakage was very great; I believe the pipes were well laid, and that very little leakage took place.

MR. PEARSON-I should also like to know what the gas cost in the holder ?

MR. CHAMBERS-I do not know, sir; I did not make any guesses as to any statement that I made here. I simply took the actual facts, from the practical operation of the works, as they were given me by the superintendent.

MR. PEARSON-Were those figures from the books of the old company, or from the books of the new company purchasing? What I want to know is whether these figures were the results of your own working?

MR. CHAMBERS-No, sir; the same superintendent has had charge of them all along. There has been no change in that respect since the company has passed into our hands. The superintendent keeps his own figures, and these figures, as I have stated, were given to me by him.

The two things are as distinct to-day as they were before we purchased.

MR. PEARSON-Who keeps the books of the old company?

MR. CHAMBERS-The books of the old company have been kept by the superintendent, as I have stated; the books of the new company are kept at their office.

MR. PEARSON-Did you not state, yesterday, that there was no purification of the gas?

MR. CHAMBERS-Yes, sir; I did. It was without purification. It was thought that purification was not necessary in that process.

MR. PEARSON-Then, I think, that sufficiently accounts for the trouble that was experienced by the consumers, because I found the very same thing to exist in Harrisburgh, where no purification was made; but, in other places, where they had proper purification, the same thing did not exist.

With the permission of the President, I should like to make a few statements in regard to this matter; and I will state, at the outset, that my attention has recently been particularly directed to the Lowe gas; and it is because we have made a conditional arrangement at Toronto, for its introduction, that I have asked these questions, and it is also partly on that ac

count that I shall make the statements which I desire to make at this meeting.

About a year ago an effort was made to introduce the gas at Toronto, but we then declined entering into any negotiations with the parties making the propositions. We subsequently ascertained that at Kingston the gas had been in use, and one of our largest stockholders, the president of the Brockville Gas Company, made certain representations in regard to the cheapness and quality of the gas, which induced our directors to send myself and the superintendent to Kingston. Before I went I was thoroughly prejudiced against the Lowe process, and I had no idea whatever that the statements which were made were correct; but, after examination, I consider I had good cause to change my opinion. One matter that we had directions particularly to inquire into was whether the evils which Mr. Chambers has referred to, existed there; and on our arrival at Kingston, and prior to going to the gas works, the superintendent and myself went around amongst the consumers and inquired whether there was any trouble from the clogging of the pipes or burners. That was in September. They commenced making gas in January, so that eight or nine months had elapsed prior to our visit. In every instance where we made inquiries we found that the consumers were better satisfied with the gas made from the Lowe process than they were with the gas made by the old process. Perhaps the old gas was not very good; but I don't know anything about that After having made these inquiries we went to the works. I would say, at this point, that the manager of the works is a man of a great deal of practical experience, and is entirely reliable, I think there are gentlemen present who can testify to that. He has been in the gas business between thirty and forty years, and is very cautious about introducing any new process. Mr. Kerr, the gentleman referred to, gave us access to his books, and I took the record from them. Not only did I do that; but, in the process of the manufacture of the gas, I saw the amount of material weighed and measured; and, therefore, I can speak from what I actually saw, as well as from the results obtained from the books.

The figures that I took from the books were for the months