Court of Appeal. In one respect, the new arrangement would be more advantageous to the Profession than the old one. Hitherto the Master of the Rolls had been usually selected from the Equity side of Westminster Hall; but if the arrangement now proposed was agreed to, that appointment would be opened more than it had been in the past to both classes of lawyers, so long as the Judges in the Court of Appeal were equally balanced. The objection of his noble and learned Friend pointed practically to the abolition of the office of the Master of the Rolls at the next vacancy; because, if the office was not to be maintained with its present advantages, there could be no reason for retaining it at all. He (the Lord Chancellor) would be the last man to ad other members of the Court of Appeal made no change, for that precedence already existed. At present the Master of the Rolls took precedence of the other Judges of Appeal, except the Lord Chancellor and the Lord Chief Justice of England; and if the proposed arrangements should be dropped, the future Masters of the Rolls would do the like. The only change introduced was that the Master of the Rolls would be relieved of his present duties as a Judge of First Instance. His noble and learned Friend had said what he (the Lord Chancellor) could not imagine to be the case-that there would be a feeling which he could not otherwise describe than as one of jealousy on the part of the other members of the Court of Appeal towards future Masters of the Rolls. He had certainly been informed of the opi-vocate the retention of mere professional nion to which reference had been made by his noble and learned Friend-and to which he himself should not otherwise have thought it right to alludeas having been expressed by one very eminent member of that Court. But, fortunately for the present purpose, that was entirely immaterial to the operation of the Bill, for the learned Judge to whom he referred, who had been for many years a great ornament to the Bench, and for whom he entertained the highest respect, had intimated his fixed intention to retire from the Bench at the close of the present sittings. He had not himself heard of any similar feeling on the part of any of the other Judges. For his part, he could not understand a feeling of that sort, and he should be extremely sorry if it existed. Appointments had from time to time been made directly from the Bar to the Court of Appeal. His noble and learned Friend had been made Lord Justice with everybody's approbation from being Attorney General; and he had also, when Lord Chancellor, appointed to the Court of Appeal a distinguished member of the Bar who had recently been too early lost to his country. Under the old system, it was customary to appoint Solicitors and Attorneys General to the Mastership of the Rolls, the Chief Justiceship of the Common Pleas, and the Chief Barony of the Exchequer, and not unfrequently to the Lord Chancellorship and the Chief Justiceship of England, and no objection was taken to it; and in future the Master of the Rolls might often be taken from the Judges of the prizes, when their retention would not conduce to the public interest; and, actuated by that feeling, he had thought it desirable that the offices of Chief Justice of the Common Pleas and Chief Baron of the Exchequer should cease to exist. But with regard to the ancient office of Master of the Rolls, he held that it ought to be preserved in its integrity and with all its advantages, unless it could be shown that the public would gain something by its abolition. In his opinion, the public would gain nothing by such a step. The Master of the Rolls was not only a Judge, but also the principal head of the Record Office. It was desirable that he should continue to fulfil the duties of the latter post, because, in his (the Lord Chancellor's) opinion, it had been of great advantage to the country; and the records were, to a great extent, connected with legal and judicial matters. If the duties of the Master of the Rolls in connection with the records were transferred to some other person there would almost certainly be an increase of cost, for he would probably have to be paid more than £1,000 a-year; and the absence of official relations between the Record Office and the Judicature would be likely to be attended with inconvenience. Another objection of his noble and learned Friend was levelled at the arrangements for the regulation of judicial patronage. Under an Act passed in 1879, when his noble and learned Friend was in Office, this patronage was confided to the Master of the Rolls for the time being, to the Lord Chief Justice for the time being, and to the two abolished Chiefs. He, therefore, thought the proposed arrange ment would be fair, considering that the greater portion of it would be connected with the business of the Queen's Bench Division. The patronage to which he referred affected the offices of 22 Masters, who would be reduced to 18, as vacancies should occur, and of a number of clerks of whom here after there would be about 80, only one or two vacancies having happened among them since the Act of 1879 was passed; from which it would be seen that the matter was not very large. It appeared to him to be right that the Master of the Rolls should retain his share of that patronage, as he had previously the exclusive appointment of certain clerks in the Record and Writ Clerks' and some other Chancery offices, which he had now given up. He had at first proposed that the Lord Chancellor should take the place of the two abolished Chiefships in this matter of patronage; but, seeing that a considerable preponderance of this patronage was connected with the Common Law side of the High Court, he now thought it would be better to substitute in lieu of the Lord Chancellor the Senior Judge for the time being of the Queen's Bench Division. For those reasons, he hoped the arrangements proposed would be agreed to. one thousand eight hundred and eighty-one, the judges not ex officio members of Her Mathose offices being reduced to an equality with jesty's Court of Appeal, it shall be lawful for Her Majesty to appoint a 'president' of each sub-division of the new Court of Queen's Bench, in banc, as has already, by seniority only, been found needful, to supply the place of the chiefs and their divisions (nominally but not really abolished), such divisions of offices and courts not to exceed two for sittings in banc." THE LORD CHANCELLOR said, the Amendment proposed to restore the Chiefships of Divisions which had been abolished. Amendment negatived. On the Motion of The LORD CHANCELLOR, Clause omitted. Clauses 6 to 12, inclusive, severally agreed to. THE LORD CHANCELLOR moved, after Clause 12, to insert as a new clause: : (In cases of urgency, &c., one judge may absence from illness or any other cause or dur"In any case of urgency arising during the ing any vacancy in the office of any judge of the High Court of Justice to whom any cause or matter may have been according to the course cially assigned, it shall be lawful for any other of the said court or of any division thereof spejudge of the said court, who may consent so to do, to hear and dispose of any application for an injunction or other interlocutory order for or on behalf of the judge so absent, or in the place of the judge whose office may have so become Motion agreed to; House in Committee vacant." accordingly. Clause 1 agreed to. Clause 2 (Master of the Rolls to be Judge of Appeal only). On the Motion of The LORD CHANCELLOR, the following Amendment made: In page 2, line 4, leave out ("if he were a judge "), and insert ("He would have been under the lastmentioned Act, or any Acts or Act amending the same, if he had continued to be a judge of the Chancery Division.") Clause, as amended, agreed to. Clauses 3 and 4 severally agreed to. Clause 5 (Three puisne judges to sit in Court of Appeal). LORD DENMAN moved, as an Amendment, to leave out the clause, and insert the following clause "The titles only and divisions of the Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas and of Lord Chief Baron of the Exchequer and not their offices' having been abolished by the Order of Council laid before Parliament on sixth January The Lord Chancellor He said the object of the clause was to prevent inconvenience. Motion agreed to; Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 13 (Selection of judges for trial of election petitions). "If at the end of the year for which any such judge shall have been appointed, whether before or after the passing of this Act, any trial or other matter shall be pending before him, either alone or together with any other judge, and not concluded, or if, after the conclusion of any such trial or of the hearing of any such matter, judgment shall not have been given thereon, it shall be lawful for every such judge to proceed with and to conclude such pending trial or other matter, and to give judg ment thereon, after the end of such year, in the same manner in all respects as if the year for which he was appointed had not expired." Clause, as amended, agreed to. Clause 14 agreed to. Clause 15 (Extension of Winter Assizes Act of 1876 to all assizes). THE EARL OF POWIS asked whether it was proposed to hold extra Assizes by an Order in Council, and objected to the abolition of the Assizes in some counties in Wales, the inhabitants of which considered that a great slight would be done to them if their ancient privilege of holding separate Assizes were done away with. If there were any reason for economizing judicial strength a single Judge might be sent to some towns. He regarded the clause as aimed at Wales in the interests of the Judges and barristers, which were in direct conflict with those of the public. The noble Earl concluded by moving the omission of the clause. and unrestricted power without knowing how it would operate. The difficulty in dealing with the matter was owing to the difference of views taken by the Central Government and the localities. The Central Government desired nothing so much as facility; while the localities were anxious to preserve their local rights and traditions. He hoped that if the changes proposed were carried out ample notice would be given to the localities. LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY supported the Amendment moved by the noble Earl (the Earl of Powis). THE EARL OF POWIS admitted that if full notice were given to the localities a great portion of his objections would be met. THE LORD CHANCELLOR said, Moved, "To omit the Clause."-(The that an Order in Council would be made Earl of Powis.) THE LORD CHANCELLOR said, he could assure the noble Earl that it was no part of the object of the clause to save trouble to the Judges or the Bar, although he would not himself desire to impose unnecessary trouble upon them. The object of the clause was to promote the conduct of public business. All that was asked was that the arrangements of Assizes might, if necessary, be modified by an Order in Council according to the requirements of public business, so as to give an optional power to the Government to hold Assizes only in places where they were required. Of late years, the number of Assizes had been increased, and the power would not be exercised unless the convenience of the public business were such as to require it. Experience had shown that such a power might be advantageously exercised in other parts of the country than Wales. It was frequently found that the Judges had to go to places at which there was practically no business to be done; while, at other places, there was more than could be got through in the time allowed. The consequence was that, besides incurring considerable expense, there was a great waste of public time, which the clause would do much to obviate. THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY thought the power which was being asked for was too wide. He would prefer to see the arrangement that might be thought desirable laid before Parliament, rather than that they should be asked to give the Government a large when a change was proposed, and such Order would be laid before both Houses of Parliament within a month from the date of such Order; or, if Parliament were not then sitting, within a month after the meeting of Parliament. On question, resolved in the negative. On the Motion of The LORD CHANCELLOR, the following new clause, to follow Clause 15, agreed to, and ordered to stand part of the Bill : (Quorum in Court of Criminal Appeal). "The jurisdiction and authority in relation to questions of law arising in criminal trials, which, under section forty-seven of the Supreme Court of Judicature Act, 1873, is now vested in the judges of the High Court of Justice, may be exercised by any five or more of such judges, notwithstanding the abolition of the offices of Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas and Lord Chief Justice of the Exchequer; provided that the Lord Chief Justice of England shall always his hand or by the certificate in writing of his be one of such judges, unless, by writing under medical attendant, it shall appear that he is prevented, by illness or otherwise, from being present at any court duly appointed to be held for the purpose aforesaid, in which case the presence of the said Lord Chief Justice at such court shall not be necessary." Clauses 16 to 19, inclusive, severally agreed to. Clause 20 (Patronage under Officers Act, 1879). On the Motion of The LORD CHANCELLOR, the following Amendments made-In page 7, line 14, leave out ("the Lord Chancellor "); line 15, leave out ("and"), and after ("Rolls ") insert ("And the senior puisne judge for the time being of the Queen's Bench Division of the High Court of Justice"); Line 17, leave out from ("determine") to end of clause. Clause, as amended, agreed to. Clause 21 (Extension of section 14 of Courts of Justice (Salaries and Funds) Act, 1869). On the Motion of The LORD CHANCELLOR, the following Amendment made-In page 7, line 30, after (“judicature") insert ("and all officers in Lunacy.") Clause, as amended, agreed to. Clause 27 (Commissioners for acknowledgments of Married Women). On the Motion of The LORD CHANCELLOR, the following Amendment made: In page 9, line 37, after ("office") insert ("or shall be hereafter made by the Lord Chief Justice of England for the time being.") Clause, as amended, agreed to. The Report of the Amendments to be received on Thursday next; and Bill to be printed as amended. (No. 171.) SUMMARY JURISDICTION ACT-IN DUSTRIAL SCHOOLS. QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS. LORD NORTON, in asking Her Majesty's Government, Whether anything is being done for the amendment of the law, promised in the early part of the Clause 23 (Appointment of District Session, by which the 35th section of Registrars). On the Motion of The LORD CHANCELLOR, the following Amendments made-In page 8, line 15, leave out ("as to the manner of appointing,") and insert ("for the appointment of "); line 16, after ("justice") insert (Other than persons holding or having held the offices in section sixty of the Supreme Court of Judicature Act, 1873, and section 13 of the Supreme Court of Judicature Act, 1875, respectively mentioned "); After ("that") in line 16 leave out all the words down to and including ("by") in line 17, and insert ("If on any vacancy in the office of district registrar under the said Acts, or upon the appointment by any Order in Council to be hereafter made of any new district within which there shall be a district registrar (unless by such Order in Council it shall be otherwise directed), it shall appear to the Lord Chancellor, with the concurrence of the Treasury, that from the nature and amount of the business to be transacted by such district registrar it is expedient that such office should be conferred upon a person not so qualified as aforesaid, it shall be lawful for "); the Summary Jurisdiction Act may not stand in the way of a parent of a child sent to an industrial school being made to pay for it maintenance? said, he would remind them that in answer to a Question asked in "another place some months ago, it had been stated that the matter would be considered, and that a short Act would, if possible, be passed in the course of the present Session. Under the 35th section of the Summary Jurisdiction Act, the contribution of a parent towards the maintenance of a child in an industrial school became a civil debt, and was not, therefore, one on respect of which a warrant of apprehension could be issued, unless the parent had means to pay and refused to pay. By the indirect effect of this law parents avoided, without risk of punishment, the responsibility of maintaining, even in part, children whom their neglect had got sent to industrial schools, and threw the charge unjustly, and most mischievously, on the ratepayer. THE EARL OF DALHOUSIE, 'in reply, said, that the subject had been under the consideration of the Secretary of Line 18, after ("Treasury ") insert("To appoint to such office any barrister-at-State for the Home Department; but, law of not less than five years standing or any solicitor of the Supreme Court of Judicature of not less than five years standing.") Clause, as amended, agreed to. Clauses 24 to 26, inclusive, severally agreed to. unfortunately, the chances of introducing a measure this Session were growing less and less, and he was unable to hold out any hope that the question would be dealt with before next year. RAILWAYS (JOINT STATIONS). RESOLUTION. THE EARL OF BELMORE, in rising to move the Resolutions of which he had given Notice, said, that, in the enlargement of railway stations which were used by more than one Company, it was often difficult to apportion the expenses between the several parties. He had communicated with the manager of one of the largest Companies, and had asked him to consult his friends and colleagues on the subject, with the result that a proposal very nearly the same as that contained in his 1st Resolution had been endorsed by the solicitors of the Great Western Railway Company, the London and North-Western, and the Midland Railway Companies. The solicitors to the Railway Association had also signified their approval. He understood that his Resolution would be opposed by the Board of Trade; but he hoped that their objections would not be based on the ground that it would discourage the joint use of stations, as it would always be cheaper for a new Company to share the use of an existing station than to make a separate one for itself. He had originally proposed to make a Standing Order of the Resolution; but, as he understood that the Chairman of Committees objected, he would not press that part of the Motion. during the period of such default, cease and determine." (The Earl of Belmore.) LORD SUDELEY hoped that the Motion would not be pressed, as he could not say that it would be for the interest of the public to pass such a Resolution as this. The object of a Standing Order was to carry out some arrangement in the interest of the public generally; but this Resolution merely desired to carry out and lay down rules between the Railway Companies inter se. The real objection to the Resolution, therefore, was that it was not in the nature of a Standing Order. It had never been thought fit to adopt a Standing Order of the kind, and the Board of Trade strongly objected to it. Besides, if it were to be of any avail, a Standing Order of the sort must be adopted by both Houses of Parliament; whereas the fact was that the officials of the House of Commons, who had charge of private legislation, had the greatest objection to the Resolution, and maintained that it ought not to be made a Standing Order. also THE EARL OF REDESDALE (CHAIRMAN of COMMITTEES) said, he quite agreed with what had just fallen from the noble Lord (Lord Sudeley). It would be most inconvenient and objectionable to agree to the Resolution as a Standing Order. At the same time, there could be no doubt that in some cases a grievance existed on the point, which might have been provided against if the ComMoved to resolve, "That whenever powers pany, whose station had been invaded, are sought to be taken in any Private Bill to had taken care to have reasonable proenable the promoters of any new railway to run into and use compulsorily the station of any tection given to them in regard to future existing railway company, a clause shall be in- expenditure in the Act sanctioning the serted in the Bill to provide that if in conse-junction, and Companies should attend quence of such user it is necessary to enlarge to this hereafter. such station, or in case at any time thereafter the traffic of such railway station shall, in the opinion of the owning company, have outgrown the accommodation necessary for the safety and convenient use of such station by the public, and the said owning company shall have in consequence enlarged the said station, they shall be entitled to be paid by the other company so using their station an amount equal to such proportion of the expense of the enlargement, or at the option of the owning company such an annual sum as shall be considered right by an arbitrator to be named in the Bill, or, failing such arbitrator, by one to be from time to time appointed by the Board of Trade, and such payment shall be taken into THE EARL OF LIMERICK, in rising consideration in the settlement of the terms of to ask, Whether, it having been discouser of the said station, and if the using com-vered that forged stamps to the number pany shall at any time make default in pay of many thousands have been circulated ment of any sum due from them in respect of their use of the station, or any enlargement in Ireland, Her Majesty's Government thereof, their right to use such station shall, will take immediate steps to protect the THE LORD CHANCELLOR thought that the Resolution was objectionable, because it went beyond anything that could be justified on the ground of reason or justice. Motion (by leave of the House) withdrawn. WAYS AND MEANS-INLAND REVENUE |