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MOTIONS.

complicating its provisions, he did not know how it was to be worked. How did the matter stand? The very same words which appeared in the Act of 1870 were already in the Bill, and gave power to the Court, if they thought fit, to appoint an administrator for certain specified purposes. Now they had experience of the working of that Act. No one alleged that the clause had worked badly or required amendment. Administrators had been appointed in a great number of cases, and had been found to work effectively and properlyand now Parliament were asked to undo all this for the purpose of inserting an Amendment which the right hon. and learned Attorney General for Ireland had very properly declared, as soon as it was moved, to be totally unnecessary. That was, in fact, a case of limited administration, where the administrator had not to pay debts or distribute the purchase money. He was merely a person who transferred, by virtue of his appointment, a legal title and possession. They were now asked to undo all this which had worked so well, and to insist upon a provision that where an application had been made to the Court for the purpose of setting up a limited administration, the administrator on being appointed should be compelled to give security. He understood that it was the object of the Government to avoid the probability or necessity of litigation in unnecessary cases; but an Amendment such as was now proposed would encourage the making of applications which in many cases would have the effect of seriously injuring the tenant. [The ATTORNEY GENERAL for IRELAND (Mr. Law) dissented.] His right hon. and learned Friend the Attorney General for Ireland. shook his head; but he (Mr. Martin) had had some little experience of the course of litigation not unfrequent between landlords and tenants, and he knew how often it was that personal feelings were engendered on both sides, and that a good deal was frequently done for purposes of spite. Under such circumstances, he did not think the Committee ought to sanction such an Amendment as the one now proposed.

And it being a quarter of an hour before Six of the clock, the Chairman reported Progress; Committee to sit again To-morrow.

Mr. P. Martin

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Erne Lough and River * (149). Second Reading Statute Law Revision and Civil Procedure (140); l'etroleum (Hawking)* (139).

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Committee-Local Government Provisional Orders (Acton, &c.) * (121); Elementary Education Provisional Order Confirmation (London)* (68); Tramways Orders Confirmation (No. 1)* (125); Tramways Orders Confirmation (No. 3) (135); Pier and Harbour Orders Confirmation (122); Lunacy Districts (Scotland) (108-152). Committee-Report-Court of Bankruptcy (Ireland) (Officers and Clerks)* (133). Third Reading-Veterinary Surgeons (127) ; Summary Jurisdiction (Process)* (124), and passed.

TURKEY AND GREECE-THE FRONTIER QUESTION.

QUESTION.

THE EARL OF AIRLIE inquired whether the Government were in possession of any information as to the occupation of the new Greek Frontier by the Greeks?

EARL GRANVILLE: My Lords, I am happy to be able to assure my noble

Friend that progress has been made in was a fourth death of a driver, from the negotiations respecting the Greek heart disease; but he was riding on a Frontier. The Convention has been waggon all day, and had undergone no signed by the Greek and Turkish Pleni-fatigue, nor did he complain till later in potentiaries, and General Hamley re- the day. It is remarkable that from the ported yesterday that the Turks retired brigade which went over the most ground, that day from Dimario on the left and did the hardest work, the smallest Turkish Frontier, and that the Greeks number of men, only 12, fell out, and crossed the Frontier and took possession. none went into hospital. At a time of All was done in good order. exceptional heat all parades take place in the early morning, so that troops may be back in camp before the power of the sun becomes excessive. I do not think that beyond this well-understood rule, attention to which has been especially called by a Circular, issued on Tuesday, the discretion of commanding officers need be hampered. We are all greatly distressed by, and deeply lament, the deaths of these men ; but I think I have plainly stated the exceptional circumstances under which they occurred.

ARMY-DEATHS BY SUNSTROKE AT

ALDERSHOT.-QUESTION.

THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN asked the Under Secretary of State for War, If he could now give any information regarding the casualties which occurred among the troops at Aldershot on last Monday?

THE EARL OF MORLEY: My Lords, I can now give to your Lordships more information as to what occurred on the field-day at Aldershot last Monday than when my noble Friend put his Question to me on Tuesday evening. As I told my noble Friend on that day immediately the report arrived at the War Office the Secretary of State for War at once called for a detailed account of the circumstances. The field-day was appointed for Monday four or five days previously. On Sunday and Monday, on the Fox Hills, where the field-day took place, it was somewhat hot, but a strong breeze was blowing. The troops went out as usual in field-day order-that is to say, they had nothing to carry except their water bottles. They started after breakfast at 8.30. The manoeuvres were over before 1 o'clock, and until then there were no casualties and few men fell out. About that time, however, the heat greatly increased; and, unfortunately, the usual anxiety to get back to their lines led to the regiments hurrying the pace, and this, in the heavy dust and increased heat, probably caused a good many men to fall out. Of the 19 men who were sent into hospital the greater part fell out then. Unfortunately, four men have died. Three died of sunstroke-one was an old sergeant of Militia, aged 45, who did not fall out; he was somewhat stout, and liable to suffer from the heat. The second was a man of long service, aged 32, and, on post-mortem examination, he was found to be highly predisposed to illness of this kind; the third was a perfectly healthy man, of long service, aged 33. There

LUNACY DISTRICTS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
(The Earl of Dalhousie.)
(No. 108.) COMMITTEE.
House in Committee (according to
order).

THE DUKE OF RICHMOND AND GORDON said, that on behalf of his noble Friend (the Duke of Buccleuch) he begged to propose an Amendment in the Bill. He thought the Lord Advocate was not the proper authority for making the alteration in the lunacy districts. The Bill proposed that as the Prison Boards did not now exist, the power should be in the hands of the Lord Advocate, acting on the application of the General Board of Commissioners in Lunacy. He proposed to strike out "the Lord Advocate," and make the clause read

"The General Board of Commissioners in

Lunacy in Scotland shall have power, on the application of the Commissioners of Supply, to alter or vary the districts or divide the coun

ties, &c."

He hoped the Government would have no objection to the Amendment, as it seemed a much better proposal for dealing with the question than that the Lord Advocate should have power of varying those districts upon the application of the Commissioners.

THE EARL OF DALHOUSIE said, he had received no Notice of the Amendment, and he therefore asked the noble

Duke not to press it at present, but to
bring it up on the Report.

THE DUKE OF RICHMOND AND
GORDON said, that in the circum-
stances he would acquiesce in the sug-
gestion of the noble Earl.

THE EARL OF DALHOUSIE moved
to substitute the Commissioners of
Supply of any county for the General
Board of Commissioners in Lunacy.

Amendment agreed to.

The Report of the Amendment to be received To-morrow; and Bill to be printed as amended. (No. 152.)

SUMMARY PROCEDURE (SCOTLAND)
AMENDMENT BILL.-(No. 99.)

(The Earl of Dalhousie.)
REPORT OF AMENDMENTS.

LORD BALFOUR OF BURLEIGH asked the noble Earl (the Earl of Dalhousie), who had charge of the Bill, if he was now able to give an explanation to the question formerly put regarding the scale of costs which the Bill sought to enact in the Schedule, and which seemed inconsistent with the 4th clause of the Bill, laying it down that the maximum costs should not exceed £1?

THE EARL OF DALHOUSIE said, the explanation was that where the costs, according to the scale laid down in the Schedule, exceeded the maximum, the defendant would not be liable for more than that amount, and the surplus would have to be paid by the prosecution.

LORD BALFOUR OF BURLEIGH said, the explanation did not in any way remove the objections he had to this enactment. It seemed a very extraordinary thing that a Bill was to be passed by this House limiting the amount which the defendant had to pay to £1, and mulcting the prosecutor, the injured party, in whatever extra amount of costs was incurred. While it was desirable to keep down costs when the amount of fine imposed was very trivial, yet why the defendant, who had been convicted, should be released at the expense of the prosecutor, was really an enactment which altogether passed his comprehension to understand. before the House would consent to that He hoped that they would have something in the nature of a justification of this curious

enactment.

The Earl of Dalhousie

If

LORD WATSON said, he hoped the
Government would re-consider this sug-
gestion. On referring to the precise
terms of the Bill, which was one of a
useful character, defining the limits of
these summary prosecutions in Scotland,
costs, which were sometimes excessive in
he found that there was a table of fees,
according to which agents were to be
paid for conducting those cases.
there were two witnesses, by the smallest
out of pocket would amount to £1 12s. 6d.
scale of expenses the prosecutor's charges
The smallest possible expenses under this
Bill would be about £1 58., and yet it pro-
vided that in no instance whatever, when
the penalty did not exceed £3, the
prosecutor should be entitled to more
than £1 of expenses.
Bill enacted that while it was a fair
In short, the
should pay on a low scale of charges
and reasonable thing that the prosecutor
a sum of £1 108. 6d., he should only
recover £1, or, in other words, he should
pay one-half or one-third of the whole
costs.
attended with a certain degree of danger.
A Bill of this sort was always
It was a proper thing to cut down the
expenses of the law agents who charged
too much for certain species of work; but
hard-and-fast rule as to maximum ex-
there was a danger of laying down a
penses that put it in the power of persons
liable to penalties-who were not acting
independently, but as members of asso-
ciations, and who were, therefore, fur-
nished with ample funds for their own
defence, or in cases of land and river
Acts, and others-to harass the prosecutors
poaching, offences against the Factory
by protracting the proceedings, leading a
great deal of evidence, and so involving
them in expenses to the amount of £5
or £6, even according to this scale, so
that when the penalty was inflicted the
prosecutor would find that he had four
or five times as much to pay as the de-
fendant.

clause should be re-framed in terms
He suggested that the 4th
that would prevent such a possibility.

this was a legal Bill, to discuss which
THE EARL OF DALHOUSIE said,
would require considerable legal know-
ledge on his part. As the noble and
learned Lord gave no Notice of the
enough to put it on the Paper.
Amendment, he asked him to be good

AND

GORDON said, he could not agree that
THE DUKE OF RICHMOND
to discuss the proposition of his noble

Report of Amendment (which stands appointed for this day) put off to Tuesday

next,

ENDOWED INSTITUTIONS (SCOTLAND)
ACT, 1878-THE PROVISIONAL OR-

DERS.-OBSERVATIONS.

and learned Friend required any legal the Home Secretary in relation to this knowledge. It was a practical matter scheme; and he thought he was justified on which their Lordships were perfectly in coming to the conclusion that a strong able to give a judgment; and he believed case existed in his favour and against the Lord Chancellor was well able to that Department of Her Majesty's GoIdeal with it without the noble Earl con- vernment. Not one word was said in sulting the Law Officers of the Crown. its favour, and the Motion he made disTHE EARL OF DALHOUSIE said, he approving of the scheme of the Home preferred to postpone the consideration Department was carried without a diviof the Amendment. sion. Now, these schemes related to most important subjects, and Parliawith all that sort of property dealt with ment was so very careful and jealous under the provisions of the Endowed 1878, that all the persons interested in Institutions (Scotland) Act passed in that Act should have every opportunity of being heard upon the subject. A clause was inserted in that Act which provided that the scheme, after being approved by the Secretary of State, should lie on the Table of both Houses of Parliament for 40 days, and if no action was taken anent the scheme during that period, that it should become law. That being the case, it appeared to him that it was the duty of the Secretary of State to see that the provisions of the Act were carried out strictly and to the letter. Now, what had happened in each of the five Provisional Orders to which he had called attention? The Order lists were presented to the House on the 21st June, and it was now the 7th July-that was 17 days-and up to that moment those schemes had not been delivered for their Lordships' consideration. He was told that they had been presented only yesterday in the other House of Parliament; and, therefore, practically by the conduct of the Secretary of State for the Home Department in this case, the parties who were interested in those schemes had been deprived of 16 days out of 40 in which they might make objections and consider what course they should take. He was quite ready to admit that in these days of rapid communication between this country and the North of Scotland such a loss of time was not so important as it would once have been. But it would be admitted that some considerable time ought to be granted to persons living in the extreme North of the Empire to consult together how the schemes affected their own interests, and whether any action, and if so what action, should be taken about it. He had a great interest in Burnett's Literary

THE DUKE OF RICHMOND AND GORDON, in rising to ask Her Majesty's Government, When the five Provisional Orders relating to Endowed Institutions in Scotland, including the new Order for Burnett's Literary Fund, that were presented on the 21st of June, will be circulated: And to move for a Return showing why no Provisional Orders have been issued in the following ten cases in which the Commissioners under the Endowed Institutions (Scotland) Act of 1878 have reported to the Secretary of State: Spier's Trust, Beith; Boys' and Girls' Hospital, Aberdeen; Donaldson's Charity, Stonehaven; Graham Free School, Glasgow; Kellae's Trust, Haddington; Scott or Campbell Trust, Selkirk; Wilson's School, Fauldhouse; Wilson's School, Harthell; Wilson's School, Stane; and Wilson's School, Whitburn? said, he considered this was a Notice of a very important character. He had framed it in rather wide language, and he was not at all prepared to say that he would ask for a Return showing why no Provisional Orders had been issued in the cases named in his Motion; but what he really wanted to know was. what had become of those Orders? With regard to the first part of the Motion, he would like to ask the Government why the Provisional Orders relating to the Endowed Institutions in Scotland, including the new Order of Burnett's Literary Fund, presented on the 21st June, were not circulated? Their Lordships would recollect that in the early part of this Session he called attention to the scheme of Burnett's Literary Fund, and took occasion to speak somewhat strongly of the conduct of

Fund, and he should have been very glad before now to have had the opportunity of communicating with those who were also interested, as to whether this scheme would be agreeable to them or the contrary. He was by no means saying-he had no means of knowing that the Burnett Scheme might not have been altered in a manner satisfactory to the Governing Body; but what he did say was, that by the action of the Secretary of State for the Home Department they were deprived of 16 days out of 40 which they had to consider the situation. Now, it seemed to him there must be some most extraordinary influence he hardly knew how to describe it-at work in the Home Office with regard to the printing and presenting of Papers to Parliament. He had a knowledge of one of the most important Papers, probably, that their Lordships could have before them-the Report of the Irish Assistant Commissioners. That Report was presented to the Secretary of State for the Home Department, through whom it must necessarily come for presentation to Her Majesty, on the 18th January. Of course, when the Commissioners had sent it to the Home Department their duty with regard to it ceased. Their Lordships would be astonished to hear that, notwithstanding the Secretary of State received the Report from the Irish Assistant Commissioners, in a matter of the very highest importance, on the 18th January, it was only printed and circulated on the 6th of July; therefore, there must be something very irregular in the manner in which tho Home Office dealt with this question. With regard to the other schemes, though he did not press for a Return regarding them, he was deeply interested to know what had happened to those schemes. The Reports, according to the Commission, had been presented to the Home Secretary. He should like to know where those schemes were. What had become of them? Had the Commissioners been communicated with by the Secretary of State for the Home Department with regard to the action he had taken, or was taking, with reference to these subjects? The first scheme mentioned in his Motion was partly dealt with by the late Government. He had suggested to Sir R. Assheton Cross, then Home Secretary, certain objections he entertained to that scheme, one of

The Duke of Richmond and Gordon

which was the large outlay-£16,000— proposed to be made for buildings, and the other that a member of the School Board should be a member of the Governing Body. The latter proposition was stated to be ultra vires, and that question still remained unsettled when the late Government left Office. But why had not the Orders presented on the 21st June been circulated? Не noticed some of them were circulated yesterday, so that his Motion had done some good. It had induced the Home Secretary to see that these schemes were circulated. He was told one of them was in their Lordships' House, and that the others would be circulated probably in the course of to-morrow; but he pointed out that great injustice had been done to those parties in having the time in which they could petition against the scheme curtailed in the manner he had described. He would be glad to know what had come of the other schemes which he had enumerated; and whether any, and if so what, communication had taken place between the Home Secretary and the Endowed Institution Commissioners in Scotland, if the Secretary of State was not going to agree with the recommendation of the body?

THE EARL OF DALHOUSIE, in reply, said, the noble Duke had really answered the first part of the Question himself when he stated, quite correctly, that one of these Provisional Orders had been circulated that day, and that others would be circulated in a day or two. In the case of the other schemes to which he referred, there had been some difference of opinion-in some cases very considerable difference-between the Scotch Education Department and the Educational Endowment Commissioners. There had not been time to adjust the issue in each of these cases, and the Secretary of State had therefore thought it advisable that they should be postponed, in order to be considered by the new Committee to be appointed by the Bill now before the | House of Commons. In the case of two of those schemes there had been strong opposition on the part of certain local bodies.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY said, the noble Earl did not appear to have understood the drift of the Question of his noble Friend. The objection was, not as to the time the Secretary of State might

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