himself the liberty of proposing an Amendment on the Amendment, to provide that Boards of Guardians, for the purpose of carrying out this emigration proposal, should consist exclusively of elected members, and that landlords and land agents should not take part in the proceedings when such proposals were under consideration. action of the authorities under the clause, and create an impression on the other side of the Atlantic which would be fatal to the prospects of those persons whom the noble Lord, with perfect sincerity, sought to benefit. MR. BIGGAR said, he did not think that the Government of the country to which the emigrants were sent had a right to insist that they should get only healthy and strong persons without any mixture of others. The idea was pre MR. GLADSTONE said, he would at once answer the appeal which had been made to him. He could not agree with the proposal of the noble Lord the Mem-posterous that none but parties thober for Woodstock (Lord Randolph Churchill); but he admitted there was one strong point in the recommendation which was sustained by the precedents in which Parliament had vested authority in Boards of Guardians. But that principle had been deliberately departed from in the proposal in the Bill. Then, when he looked at this Amendment from another point of view, he found that the hon Member for Dungarvan (Mr. O'Donnell), in his anxiety to forward the progress of the Bill, proposed that the Government should forego the desirable means of management they had made; secondly, that they should introduce the Board of Guardians; and, thirdly, as Boards of Guardians had an unsatisfactory constitution, that they should reform the constitution of Boards of Guardians. Incidents, these, to forward the progress of the Land Bill! He (Mr. Gladstone) had listened to the discussion which the noble Lord was quite entitled to raise, and which had been carried on for a considerable length of time, and which had received but a very moderate amount of support from Irish Members, and he could not help hoping that the Committee was now in a condition to dispose of the Amendment. He quite admitted the fairness and legitimacy of the discussion, and the weight due to the consideration that Parliament had made use of this instrumentality before; but it was quite clear, for various reasons he would not now go over, that the Government could not consent to the substitution of Boards of Guardians for the agency they contemplated. He was afraid that if there was only one objection to the proposal-and it was far from being the only one-it was this, that it would attach more or less the suspicion or idea of pauperism to the people emigrated that it was sending paupers away. This would fatally embarrass the Mr. O'Donnell roughly able to work should be sent to what might be supposed the general ideas of landlords, being largely representatives of the higher rank of ratepayers. If the Commission could not attend to the work of reclamation, he did not see how they could attend to the operation of this clause, and which would require a knowledge of details not likely to be possessed by the Land Commission. Question put, "That the words 'or persons, or body of persons having authority,' stand part of the Clause." Question put, The Committee divided :-Ayes 266; Noes 19: Majority 247.-(Div. List, No. 303.) Amendment proposed, In page 18, line 14, to leave out the words "on behalf of the Dominion of Canada or any province thereof, or."-(Mr. William Edward Forster.) Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause." ous of the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary was now passed? THE CHAIRMAN said, the hon. Gentleman would have an opportunity later of moving his Amendment. MR. DAWSON said, considerable difficulty would be removed if the right hon. Gentleman would state that the effect of the clause would not be to prevent the sending of emigrants to the United States. MR. W. E. FORSTER said, he thought the inquiry of the hon. Member would be met by the later words in the clause, which were to this effect "Or on behalf of any public company or other public body with whose constitution and survey the Land Commission may be satisfied." MR. WARTON said, he regretted that the Government had allowed themselves to be influenced by the unworthy pressure which had been brought to bear in order to induce them to except the Dominion of Canada from the operation of the Bill. worthy? THE CHAIRMAN said, he did not regard the expression of the hon. and learned Member for Bridport as unParliamentary. MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR, rising to Order, asked the Chairman whether MR. BIGGAR said, this Amendment the hon. Member was in Order in saying was only in appearance a concession to that pressure, no matter from whatever Irish public opinion. Even if the Amend-quarter of the House it came, was unment was carried, the other parts of the clause would make it quite as mischievas though it was passed in its original form. What he would wish to see was the insertion of words which would specially except the Dominion of Canada from the provisions of the Bill, and by that means give a guarantee to the unfortunate people who were, practically, to be sent to penal servitude that they should not be sent to a climate that was perfectly unsuitable for them. In his view, the Land Commission and the Treasury ought not to be allowed to enter into contracts with the Government of any country in reference to this matter whose climate was not compatible with the health of people who had been reared in Ireland. THE CHAIRMAN said, the hon. Member was discussing an Amendment which was not on the Paper, and was therefore out of Order. MR. HEALY said, he had on the Paper an Amendment for the insertion, after the word "the," of the words "United States of America" in this particular part of the clause, and he therefore wished to know what would be the position of his Amendment if that MR. WARTON, resuming, said, that Canada was one of the most loyal among England's Colonies, and he should therefore have thought Irish Members would have felt grateful for the generous assistance which the Canadians had given to Irish fisheries and towards the relief of distress in Ireland. He could not help repeating the expression of his regret that a graceful and merited compliment to Canada was about to be struck out of the Bill. MR. T. D. SULLIVAN said, he was grateful to Canada for her very practical sympathy with Irish suffering; but, at the same time, he must be allowed to say that he had no desire to see or to hear of the bones of his unfortunate fellow countrymen being committed to the snows of that Colony. The clause, as it stood, was practically one for deporting the Irish people to Canada, and to nowhere else. MR. O'DONNELL said, he regarded the Amendment of the right hon. Gen MINUTES.]-SELECT COMMITTEE-Claims of Peerage, &c., nominated. PUBLIC BILLS-First Reading-Central Criminal Court (Prisons) * (162); Pedlars (Certificates) (163); Metropolitan Open Spaces Act (1877) Amendment * (164). Second Reading-Commons Regulation (Shenfield) Provisional Order (132); Alsager Chapel (Marriages) * (153). Committee (139). Report-Water Provisional Orders (102). Third Reading Tramways Orders Confirmation (No. 3) (135); Summary Procedure (Scotland) Amendment (99); Local Government Provisional Orders (Acton, &c.) * (121), and passed. Report Petroleum (Hawking) MINUTES.]-PUBLIC BILL-Committee-Land Law (Ireland) [135]—R.P. MR. W. E. FORSTER, in reply, said, his only means of obtaining information to answer the Question had been to apply to the Secretary to the Commiswish him to read that gentleman's reply. sion, and probably the House would It was as follows: "The principal Report of the Commissioners bears date January 4, 1881. After that date no material alteration was made in it and the date was not altered. It was, however, again considered supplementarily, and separate Reports of the dissenting Commissioners were added to it on January 10. By that time, all the oral and the great bulk of the written statements in reply to, or in explanation of, evidence affecting individuals had been received and considered. | Meath, because the postmaster asked so The majority had been received and considered high a salary as £1 a quarter, or £4 a year; and if he can state the salary Her Majesty's Government were willing to pay? by January 4th. The time for receiving such statements was, however, extended for some weeks in order that full opportunity might be given as promised for replies. Many statements were accordingly received subsequently, and were printed by direction of the Commissioners, some of them as late as March." It is invidious to speak of the dates of those statements as having been withheld. The statements were mostly embodied in, or inclosed in, letters to the Commissioners. The dates of those letters, together with any other matter not forming part of the actual statement, were, in the ordinary course, deleted, and the actual statements were copied and sent to the press. MR. TOTTENHAM: Does the right hon. Gentleman mean that rebutting evidence was received up to March? MR. W. E. FORSTER: I cannot say. I have read the answer as I received it. MR. FAWCETT, in reply, said, that some time since he received a Report that it would be desirable on public grounds to open a Money Order Office and Post Office Savings Bank at Mornington; and, considering the great advantage it would be to the people of the district, he gave his consent. When the matter became known to the postmaster, having other business to attend to, he at once absolutely refused to conduct the business of the Post Office Savings Bank and the Money Order Office. The postmaster was pressed to do so, but still refused. It was not a question of salary. Under these circumstances, thinking it very undesirable that the inhabitants of the district generally should be deprived of the advantage LAW AND JUSTICE (IRELAND) — DIS- of having a Post Office Savings Bank POSAL OF PETTY SESSIONS' FINES and Money Order Office, and seeing no other alternative, he accepted the postmaster's resignation, and he hoped that before long he would be able to put a suitable person in his place. At any rate, he would do his best to prevent the inhabitants of the district losing the advantage of a Money Order Office and Savings Bank. MR. MOLLOY asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Whether the fines imposed and levied at Petty Sessions, in cases of drunkenness occurring within the municipal boundary of Tullamore, are now paid into the Fines and Penalties Office; whether such payments should not, un-conceived my Question. der the provisions of "The Towns Improvement (Ireland) Act, 1854," and the 30th section of the Licensing Act of 1874, be paid to the Town Commissioners of Tullamore; and, whether, if that be so, he will cause the necessary instructions to be given for that pose? MR. A. M. SULLIVAN: The right hon. Gentleman has apparently mis pur MR. W. E. FORSTER, in reply, said, that under the Acts referred to in the Question of the hon. and learned Member, one-half only of the fines in question were payable to the Town Commissioners, and he believed they were so paid at present. POST OFFICE (IRELAND)-THE POST He has not answered the Question on the Paper; but he has answered one which I did not put. I asked if the Government refused to pay the postmaster so high a salary as £4 a-year, and I will add this-did they not offer him £3 instead of £4? MR. FAWCETT: It will be in the recollection of the House that I explained, on Monday last, that the pay of these small sub-postmasters was partly dependent on salary, and partly on the amount of the Savings Bank and Money Order business transacted. It is estimated that when the Savings Bank and Money Order Office is opened, the emoluments of the postmaster at this place will be more than doubled. This was pointed out to the postmaster, and he still refused to carry on the office if he had to conduct a Savings Bank and Money Order business; and, so far as I can discover, the question of salary had nothing whatever to do with it. He absolutely refused to be worried with | paragraph in the Report of the Inspecthe new business. MR. A. M. SULLIVAN: I must ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is or is not the fact that the postmaster was offered £3 when he asked £4.? MR. FAWCETT: No. What I understand is this-it was not, as I have twice before said, a question as to salary, but of the postmaster absolutely refusing to do this additional work. I understand that he has offered to carry on the Post Office without a Savings Bank or Money Order Office, if we will pay him £4. [Mr. A. M. SULLIVAN: Hear, hear!] Yes; but I am so anxious that the public should have the advantages of a Savings Bank and Money Order Office in this place, that if he had offered to do the other work for nothing, or to pay the Department for doing it, I would not let him do it if the public were in consequence deprived of these additional advantages. STATE OF IRELAND-REFUSAL TO SERVE LIQUOR. MR. TOTTENHAM asked the Secretary of State for War, Whether he has ascertained that the statement of Mr. Brown, of Newbridge, that his reason for refusing to serve John Costello with liquor on the 6th June was "because he was drunk" was untrue, and whether Costello was not perfectly sober; whether he has ascertained that the publican took away the liquor and threw it on the ground, on hearing that it was for Costello, who had just returned from driving police and prisoners; and, whether the Government approve of and intend to support the action of General Frazer in putting this public house out of bounds? MR. CHILDERS: In reply to the hon. Member, I have to state that I have no intention to interfere with the decision of Sir Thomas Steele in this matter. I have read the statements on record, and I am satisfied that Costello was sober, and that Mr. Brown refused to supply him with beer because he had been employed by the police. METALLIFEROUS MINES-INSPEC- MR. MACDONALD asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, If his attention has been called to a Mr. Fawcett tors of the Metalliferous Mines of Cornwall and Dorsetshire, at page 543 of the Inspectors of Mines Reports for 1880, which runs as follows: : "On looking down the list of fines, one cannot help being struck by the fact that most of them are absurdly small. The fact is, a very large number of the magistrates are interested directly or indirectly in mining. Many of them are owners of mining property, and have been troubled by repeated notices to fence dangerous abandoned shafts, and have been thereby put to considerable expense; some, indeed, have been prosecuted for neglecting to attend to in the district, and, as such, are not disposed to look favourably upon Government restrictions, which they think may interfere with their profits. If the offences had been punished with tended to the provisions of the Act with much greater severity, mine agents would have atmore diligence. I am convinced that this mistaken leniency on the part of the magistrates leads to a delay in carrying out all the provisions of the Act, and thereby tends to keep up the death-rate from accidents; " these notices; others are shareholders in mines and, whether he will bring in a Bill this Session to prohibit magistrates who may have a direct or indirect connection with metal mines from sitting on the bench, or in any way by their presence taking part in such mining cases? SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT, in reply, said, the allegation by the Inspectors that the magistrates, having an interest in mines, inflicted inadequate fines, so as to lead to the non-enforcement of the law, was a very serious one. In the case of the coal mines, that was obviated by an enactment that persons interested at all in mines should not act as magistrates in the case. In the case of the metalliferous mines there was no similar enactment, and that, he was informed, was done deliberately, because it was considered that in Cornwall and other like places, where metalliferous mines abound, it would have been almost impossible to have found any magistrates who were not interested, because it was so common there to have small shares in various mines. But, of course, when that was allowed, it was assumed that the magistrates having such an interest would not allow that interest to interfere with the administration of the law; and, if it was true that that was the case, no doubt, some remedy would be found for it. He should hope that the hon. Member's Question, having called attention to this very serious matter, might tend to cure it; if not, of course, some serious |