COMMISSION ON COMMUNICATIONS

SATURDAY, MAY 18, 1929

UNITED STATES SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON INTERSTATE COMMERCE,

Washington, D. C.

The committee met, pursuant to adjournment on yesterday, at 10.30 a. m., in room 412, Senate Office Building, Senator James Couzens presiding.

Present: Senators Couzens (chairman), Fess, Howell, Brookhart, Kean, Dill, and Wagner.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order. Major General Gibbs has been asked to come before the committee and tell us the interest that the Army has in radio. General Gibbs, you may proceed, if you please.

STATEMENT OF MAJ. GEN. GEORGE S. GIBBS, CHIEF SIGNAL OFFICER, UNITED STATES ARMY, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Major General GIBBS. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I have been asked to explain the interest of the War Department in communications. We have in our Army a branch of the service that is charged with furnishing communication to the Army, and that means communication in its broad sense and of every sort. It maintains combat units for providing communications in the field, and maintains other units for providing communications in the rear areas of the theater of operations and also in the zone of communications.

Senator DILL. You are the head of the Signal Corps of the Army. Major General GIBBS. Yes, sir. And then I might say as a housekeeping proposition it provides communications that the Army uses in its peace-time establishment.

Senator DILL. How many stations have you?

Major General GIBBS. We have something like 125 or 130 Army posts and stations, at which we maintain a local post telephone system, and connecting with the general telephone systems of the country; and we maintain a telegraph service, and operate it, at the most of these places.

Senator DILL. What part of the spectrum are your wave lengths or frequencies selected from?

Major General GIBBS. So far I have been speaking generally about communications broadly-that is, including telephone and telegraph-and then we maintain radio nets as follows

Senator DILL (interposing). That is what I meant when I referred to stations.

Major General GIBBS. We maintain a system covering the Territory of Alaska, with a total, I think, of something like 34 stations,

employing 46 transmitters; and for 30 years that has been the commercial communication system of Alaska.

Senator DILL. Are those telephone or telegraph?

Major General GIBBS. Those are all radiotelegraph, no telephone. Senator DILL. Do you have any radio telephones in the Army? Major General GIBBS. We have combination sets for the use of troops in the field, that employ radiotelephony.

Senator DILL. But in your regular work that you do now, what about that?

Major General GIBBS. But we are not employing the radiotelephone in Army communications, nor are we engaged in broadcasting of any sort.

Senator DILL. How many frequencies does the Army use, or about how many frequencies?

Major General GIBBS. I think we have about forty-odd. Captain Hooper, what number now has the Army, and how many has the Navy?

Captain HOOPER. I have not the figures here.

Major General GIBBS. About 45 each, I think.

Captain HOOPER. I think you have 42, and we have 21 above 6,000 kilocycles.

Senator KEAN. In what part of the spectrum are they?

Major General GIBBS. That is altogether, in the whole spectrum. Senator KEAN. You do not cover the whole radio spectrum, do you?

Major General GIBBS. These frequencies I speak of are just here and there for different purposes, and are naturally chosen from different parts of the spectrum, depending on distance and nature of communication.

Senator KEAN. But as I understand it there is a part of the spectrum used for telegraph, and there is a part of the spectrum used for broadcasting, and there is a part of the spectrum used again for broadcasting or communication on high frequencies.

Major General GIBBS. Yes, sir.

Senator KEAN. Now, are your lines scattered all through that spectrum?

Major General GIBBS. Yes; there are a few chosen for each of these purposes, so that naturally they are scattered in different parts of the spectrum.

Senator KEAN. I thank you.

Senator DILL. You say you have 34 stations in Alaska. How many other stations have you?

Major General GIBBS. We are operating a radiotelegraph service on 10 transports with 21 transmitters on those transports; on 51 mine planters, tugs, engineers' dredges, and so forth, small craft, with 63 transmitters; and then our Army net, as well call it, which includes a net connecting the headquarters of the 12 corps areas and departments, including the overseas departments, with the subsidiary nets. connecting up the military stations within corps areas, make a total of 83 stations with 132 transmitters.

Senator DILL. Outside of Alaska is that?

Major General GIBBS. Oh, yes; that is the total that is outside of Alaska. That is, in the rest of the United States and in the foreign possessions.

Senator DILL. That includes the Philippines, Guam, Hawaii, Porto Rico, and Panama?

Major General GIBBS. Yes, sir. Then, besides that, another responsibility that we have is in providing stations in the operation of radio channels for the use of military airways. As you probably know, we have military airways that extend down through the Southwest and out to California, and we are operating 28 stations with 33 transmitters on those airways.

Senator DILL. Do you use the same frequencies for the different transmitters in the different parts of the world, or do you use separate frequencies for every station?

Major General GIBBS. There are frequencies that are used in different parts simultaneously when it can be done without interference. In other words, our program of employing frequencies has been drawn up so as to be as economical in the use of frequency channels as possible.

Senator DILL. That is what I wanted to know.

Major General GIBBS. Yes, sir.

Senator BROOKHART. Do you have allotments of channels for this service?

Major General GIBBS. Yes, sir; the allotment of channels set aside by the President in an Executive order.

Senator DILL. Do you use any of your stations outside of Alaska for commercial business?

Major General GIBBS. We are not operating any commercial business outside of the Alaskan system, except a small amount to and from Army transports. I would say, since the garrisons have been withdrawn from Alaska and civil government has been set up there, that the Alaskan system has become practically a 100 per cent commercial system. I think you understand that.

Senator DILL. I do, but I just wanted to get that fact into the record.

Senator BROOKHART. But it is still operated by the Army?

Major GENERAL GIBBS. It is still operated by the Army, and there is no commercial system in Alaska.

The CHAIRMAN. Has the Alaskan system been a losing system for the Government, or have you been able to meet your expenses by reason of using Army men?

Major General GIBBS. We are running that system in a very economical manner, trying to keep it within bounds, and our figures are not unfavorable. If we had to buy everything that is spent by the Government, including, for instance, medicines that appear in the appropriations for the Medical Department, and coal and clothing that appear in the appropriations for the Quartermaster Department, and had to buy everything that a commercial concern would have to buy, I would say we are losing about $150,000 a year or some such matter.

Senator DILL. On the Alaskan system?

Major General GIBBS. On the whole Alaskan system. On the other hand, we are turning into the Treasury as miscellaneous receipts about $300,000 a year, and the gross appropriated is in the neighborhood of $150,000 a year for the maintenance of the system, but that is in the direct appropriations.

Senator BROOKHART. Those soldiers that use clothing and have supplies that you mention, are performing other military duties aside from these communications duties, are they not?

Major General GIBBS. There are no soldiers in Alaska now, except at one small garrison, other than the soldiers of the Signal Corps, and of course they are engaged solely in communications.

Senator BROOKHART. Those items that you have mentioned are supplies?

Major General GIBBS. Yes, sir; it includes those supplies.

Senator BROOKHART. And the civilian employees you use you pay the same as anybody else would?

Major General GIBBS. Yes, sir. But, Senator Brookhart, just so this thing would be obtainable and clear I included in my annual report this year a financial statement in two forms, in one showing the operation of this system as it is operated by the Army, and that shows that we are operating it at a net profit of $104,971 by deducting the items that would be paid for in the Army appropriations anyhow, whether there was any Alaskan communications system or not. Now, then, if we included everything that somebody else would have to pay for, like, suppose the Radio Corporation of America, or somebody else should come along and take over the system by purchase or otherwise, if we included what they would have to pay, and if they paid the same rates we are paying, which they could not do very well, it shows that the system is being run at a net deficit of $150,653 for the last year.

Senator BROOKHART. But the point I was getting at in reference to the difference between these figures was, that these are items really expended for military purposes after all.

Major General GIBBS. Yes, but

Senator BROOKHART (interposing). And it is giving military training of value, and in that way it would not be so far as training the Army is concerned any loss.

Major General GIBBS. It is a tremendous asset. We have 177 soldiers up there getting training that is simply invaluable.

Senator BROOKHART. It is important to the Nation for you to get this asset to the Army, for which you turned over to the Treasury last year $104,000.

Major General GIBBS. Yes, sir.

Senator BROOKHART. And if you did not have that service the Army would have to spend about the same amount for the training of men anyhow?

Major General GIBBS. Yes, sir.

Senator WAGNER. What is that training?

Major General GIBBS. They are actually transmitting the communications business of that country. It is the only communications system there is in Alaska, outside of the coastal chain that is operated by the Navy. I mean that in the vast interior that is the only communication those people have, and of course this system handles all that business, and it is a direct operation of the communication facilities.

The CHAIRMAN. In making your statement of comparison between private management and management by the Army, you said it included figures that a private company would have to pay but that they could not get for that same money; what did you mean by that?