1

Mr. ACHESON. The Netherlands. The Netherlands, Norway, and the United States. In regard to the five freedoms, there is the Netherlands, which has the reservation mentioned a minute ago, on the fifth freedom, and the United States.

Senator VANDENBERG. So that nobody has accepted the fifth freedom, except us?

Mr. ACHESON. Except us, with a reservation on the fifth.

Senator SHIPSTEAD. Has Great Britain signed any of these agreements so far?

Mr. ACHESON. Great Britain has signed.

Mr. MORGAN. All but the five freedoms.

Senator SHIPSTEAD. All but the five?

Mr. ACHESON. Yes; they have signed all but the five. They have not accepted any of them, as yet.

Mr. MORGAN. They have not accepted any of them.

Senator SHIPSTEAD. There was an item in the press which said she had forbidden any landings on Newfoundland.

Mr. MORGAN. That reservation was officially withdrawn.

Senator GEORGE. Now, Mr. Secretary, you say that the second agreement, or agreement No. 2 which is conceded to be a treaty or requiring treaty treatment, is on the way through the executive branch to the Senate?

Mr. ACHESON. That is correct, Senator George.

Senator GEORGE. You have no information you could give as to when it would actually be sent to the Senate?

Mr. ACHESON. No, sir. It has been sent from the State Department to the White House, and I presume that it is a mere matter of getting it signed by the President and sent up here.

Senator BARKLEY. Mr. Chairman, I have got to go to the floor. I do not suppose there is going to be any official action taken here today. There may be further hearings necessary. I wish merely to make this observation. I do not care to make any comment or any commital at the moment so far as I am individually concerned as to whether these other three are or are not executive agreements or treaties.

If I am to make up my mind according to the way I have been buttonholed and lobbied with here by private interests around the Capitol and in my office, I would conclude that at least some of them in their opinion question whether they are treaties or executive agreements, as determined by their private interests in the subject. Now, I want to simply say this, that I am against cartels, I am against monopolies. I am just as much against an American cartel and an American monopoly as I am against any other cartel or any other monopoly, and I think this question ought to be settled on its merits regardless of its effect upon any private company that wants to get a monopoly in foreign trade or any other sort of trade, aviation, or any other kind; and that is as far as I can determine it by what the facts may develop. That is my attitude.

Senator BAILEY. By that inference, Senator, I do not think you mean anybody in particular.

Senator BARKLEY. How is that?

Senator BAILEY. I say, you did not mean anybody in particular, about people being buttonholed?

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Senator BARKLEY. Oh, no; but I just want to state that I have been talked to by representatives of private aviation companies, and I do not intend to listen to them or be governed by their interests one way or another.

Senator BAILEY. I have not been approached; and I have not been approached, because I told them that they were not to come to my office to discuss it.

Senator BARKLEY. Well, I was approached where most of us are subject to being approached, by people who buttonhole us out here, outside the Senate, or in our offices. Now, one group said they thought these were treaties and ought to be ratified by the Senate; the other group said they did not think so. I am not going to be influenced by either group, as to what they think about the merits of this proposition.

Senator BAILEY. I am not, either.

Senator BARKLEY. I am sure the whole committee agrees to that thing, but I just simply wanted to make that clear, in view of the fact that I have been talked to, sometimes without knowing what I was being talked to about; but I would hate to think that any Member of the Senate would be governed on an important matter like this by the private interests of any company that either wants to get a monopoly or does not want somebody else to get one.

Senator WHITE. Mr. Chairman, may I say a word about the situation? I am greatly troubled

Senator BAILEY. Will you excuse me? I have got, Senator White, a motion on the floor I have got to attend to. I have got to go up there.

Senator WHITE.. Well, if Senator Barkley goes to the floor, I feel I ought to go to the floor to watch him. [Laughter.]

Senator GEORGE. I only raise the question of whether we might meet tomorrow morning, whether it would be convenient to meet tomorrow morning again. Obviously, we are not going to be able to remain here this morning. Mr. Acheson, I am sorry.

Mr. ACHESON. I should be glad to come except for one thing, and that is that the Banking and Currency Committee of the House has directed me to appear before them at 10:30 tomorrow morning on the subject of Bretton Woods.

Mr. POGUE. Mr. Chairman, so far as our Board is concerned, we have a large hearing starting tomorrow that will last 2 days, at least. Senator GEORGE. We obviously ought to conclude this matter. The question which presents itself to me is not one of the merits or of the demerits of the agreements so much as the status of these agreements, whether they are within the authority of the Executive to conclude them under existing law, or whether they are not. course, I think it is obvious that this committee would like to canvass this whole thing, and I think the subject matter is one of such importance that the committee really would like to look at them.

Of

Senator BARKLEY. Mr. Chairman, I have this suggestion. I suppose we want to hear anybody who can shed any light on the subject. I have understood that Mayor LaGuardia, who was a delegate at the Chicago Conference, has indicated that he would be glad to come before the committee, but he does not want to initiate it; he would like to be asked to come, if the committee wishes to hear him; and

inasmuch as he was a delegate, I think that it might be a good idea to have him come down.

Senator GEORGE. We will obviously have to meet again, and I wonder, if we cannot meet tomorrow, can we meet on Friday morning or Thursday morning?

Mr. ACHESON. Friday morning would be entirely agreeable to me. You will be through with your hearing, Mr. Pogue?

Mr. POGUE. Yes.

Senator SHIPSTEAD. What light could LaGuardia throw on it? It seems to me this is entirely a matter of law and procedure. Senator BARKLEY. It might be, but

Senator GEORGE. We will decide on whether we will call him. Senator WHITE. Mr. Chairman, before we break up, I had wanted to say a word about the general situation, but I will omit the observations, and I would like to present a motion, and let it lie on the table for future consideration; and may I read that motion? Senator GEORGE. You may read that.

Senator WHITE (reading):

MOTION

I move that the committee respectfully urges the President to transmit to the Senate at his earliest convenience the International Civil Aviation Treaty signed at Chicago on December 7, last, the interim agreement and the several annexes and other documents relating thereto, signed on the same date; and that it requests the State Department, pending consideration of said treaty and disposition thereof by the Senate, to notify all nations who have heretofore accepted the so-called interim agreement and other related agreements and all other nations entitled so to do, of the pendency of the treaty before the Senate and to forthwith take appropriate steps to withdraw the acceptance by this Government of the interim agreement and other gareements until such time as the Senate has acted finally upon said treaty and the annexes thereto, all to the end that no definite commitments with respect to the subject matter of the treaty and the agreements shall exist until this committee shall have had full opportunity to consider said treaty, the interim, and other agreements and such other pertinent matt3rs as the committee may determine to be proper and desirable.

I am going to ask that that lie on the table, and I will call it up at some later meeting.

Senator GEORGE. Very well, Senator.

(Whereupon, at 12 m., the committee recessed until next Friday, March 9, 1945, at 10:30 a. m.)

CONVENTION ON INTERNATIONAL CIVIL AVIATION

FRIDAY, MARCH 9, 1945

UNITED STATES SENATE, COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN RELATIONS, Washington, D. C.

The committee met at 10:50 a. m., pursuant to adjournment, in the committee room in the Capitol, Senator Walter F. George, acting

chairman.

Present: Senators George (acting chairman), Thomas of Utah, Pepper, Green, Barkley, Guffey, Tunnell, Capper, La Follette, White, Shipstead, and Wiley.

Also present: Senator Brewster, of Maine.

Also present: Dean Acheson, Assistant Secretary of State; Will L. Clayton, Assistant Secretary of State; Stokeley W. Morgan, Chief, Aviation Division, Office of Transportation and Communications, State Department; L. Welch Pogue, Chairman, Civil Aeronautics Board; and William A. M. Burden, Assistant Secretary of Commerce.

PROCEEDINGS

Senator GEORGE (acting chairman). The committee will be in order. STATEMENT BY DEAN ACHESON, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE-Resumed

Senator GEORGE. We will proceed, Mr. Secretary, very much at the point where were were when we recessed here at the last meeting. I think it might be helpful; because some, perhaps all members of the committee, have heard all that you have heretofore said, but the acting chairman unfortunately has not, and I do not want you to repeat anything on my account. Other members of the committee may not have heard. You have, of course, heard what has been submitted here by Senator Brewster and Senator Bailey, and by members of the committee.

If you will state just succinctly the position of the State Department with respect to these agreements 1, 3, and 4, I believe, if I have the numbers correctly, and then also what your view about them is, I think it may be helpful. We manifestly want to conclude this matter so as not to have it in the air. It has been becoming a matter of speculation now about the country, as I find. It might be most unfortunate if we cannot conclude it.

Mr. ACHESON. Yes; I shall endeavor to do it.

The situation, as the committee remembers, is that we have four agreements. There is a temporary agreement setting up an organization with a council and executive committee to deal with aviation