The Earl of

Surrey.

Mr. Rofc.

Mr. Sheridan.

The Earl of Surrey begged leave to folicit the attention of the House to the nature of a motion which was lately withdrawn, relative to a lift of the American Loyalifts, who had claims on Government. The claims, as originally stated, amounted to 3,000,000l. but this fum had been reduced to about 700,000l. It was, however, worthy of notice, that numbers of American Loyalifts had not as yet prefented their claims, which amounted to about 2,000,000l. more. Confidering thefe circumstances, he thought that a motion ought to be made for the production of a correct lift, ftating the claimants' names, and fpecifying the particular fums of each.

Mr. Refe trufted, that as there were no urgent reasons for the production of the lift, and as the claims of those who had already appeared, had been carefully examined by the Commiffioners appointed for that purpose, the noble Earl could not perfift in bringing forward his motion.

The motion was withdrawn.

Mr. Sheridan, adverting to his intended motion for the printing of tax-bills, faid, that although the fubject was of a novel nature, yet he would be as brief as poffible. He was convinced that every perfon would readily coincide with him in opinion, that there were no bills of more importance than the tax-bills. They ought, undoubtedly, to be well understood before they were paffed; and no mode could be more eligible for diffufing the information, than the printing of every tax-bill previous to its final difcuffion. The practice of printing bills was of a modern date, as might be seen from the perufal of Mr. Hatfel's Precedents of the Houfe of Commons, which he believed to be in poffeffion of every gentleman converfant in parliamentary bufinefs. This custom, however, had not as yet extended to tax bills; and he could not conceive any reafon for the exception, unless it were the nugatory inference from the mere want of cuftom. He entertained a very high refpect for the ufage of Parliament, but he thought that a cuftom which was not juftified by any folid arguments ought to be renounced. As the printing of the tax-bills would be attended with the happiest effects, he hoped no gentleman would oppofe a meafure of fuch general utility to the country. He fhould always be an advocate for a rigid adherence to the cuftoms of Parliament; but any ufage or regulations founded on abfurdity, he would never countenance. He applauded the parliamentary maxim of not admitting petitions against a tax-bill, during the fame feffion in which the law was paffed. If fuch a law were not enforced, there would otherwife arife very unneceffary delays. The motion which he now meant to fubmit to the Houfe had no tendency of the kind; and what it was defigned to reme

dy

dy, was not justified by any order of the Houfe, but only
by practice. As taxation had now increased to a very great
degree, it was found expedient to inveft juftices of the peace
with more extenfive powers than they had hitherto poffeffed.
The blunders and confufion which had enfued from the mul-
tiplication of the laws within these two years, had been at-
tended with much injury to the revenue, and with much in-
convenience and moleftation to the fubjects. It was, there-
fore, by no means ftrange, if thofe wife-heads, often called
juftices of the peace, were puzzled in endeavouring to ex-
pound the nature of the new regulations. Parliament
fhould, in confequence of thefe defects, adopt fome mode of
affording gentlemen an opportunity to confider the minutia
of the new acts. He was aftonifhed how the clerks could
form an index from fuch imperfect materials. As the Jour-
nals had undergone fuch various and complicated alterations,
he imagined that a difcovery of a real reference in the index
might be ranked among the marvellous. No reference could
be made to the original act, unless the index were worded in
this manner-" An act to repeal an act, to alter an act, to
"explain and amend an act," &c. This fyftem had the ap-
pearance of naval architecture, by firft laying the keel, then
forming the ribs, then the rigging and other appurtenances;
but what was remarkable, the fhip at laft was obliged to put
to fea without a rudder! He then mentioned fome fuppofed
deficiencies in the horse, ftamp, and window acts;-and faid,
that the wording of fome conveyed the idea of the horses
not only inhabiting the houses, but the extraordinary circum-
ftance of their looking out of the windows. He then con-
demned the propofed tax on perfumery; and enumerating
the articles of lavender, milk of rofes, &c. faid that the
Commiffioners in diftinguifhing the various particulars of
taxation, must be gifted by nature with the nofes of pointers;
and then, alluding to Parliament, quoted the following paf-
fage from Pope's Rape of the Lock:

"Our humble province is to tend the fair,
"Not a lefs pleafing, though less glorious care;
"To fave the powder from too rude a gale,

"Nor let th' imprifon'd effences exhale.”

He concluded by moving, that the bill relative to a tax on perfumery, be printed.

Mr. Rofe confidered the motion as ill-timed, and of very Mr. Rofe. little fervice. It was not his wifh to do any thing contrary to the difpofition of the country; and if he faw any neceffity for the propofed alteration in the proceedings of Parliament, he would very willingly acquiefce.

Mr.

Mr. Chan

Mr. Chancellor Pitt expreffing his pleasure at difcovering, cellor Pitt. that the days of taxation were now nearly at an end, as the revenue of the country was confiderably improved. If any good could be derived from the prefent motion, he would not on any account oppofe it; but from a confcioufnefs of its futility, he was of opinion that it was needlefs to trouble the Houfe with any thing of the kind.

Mr. Macdowall.

Sir William

hame.

The Houfe divided, Ayes 24-Noes 119.
The Houfe adjourned.

Tuesday, 23d May.

On the fecond reading of the Scotch rogue bill, which lays an affeffiment upon the inhabitants of Scotland, in order to defray the expences of criminal profecutions.

Mr. Macdowall objected to the farther confideration of the fubject at this period, as the people of Scotland were not fufficiently apprifed of the nature of the new regulation. He therefore moved, that inftead of the fecond reading taking place "now," the words "this day three months fhould be inferted.

The Speaker was about taking the fenfe of the House on the fubject, when

Sir William Cunnynghame stated, that his honourable friend Cunnyng had no intention that the regulation propofed fhould be entirely abandoned; but as he was fully convinced that it was of too great importance to be hurried too precipitately through the Houfe, and as every gentleman muff agree, that thofe more immediately concerned ought to be allowed a fufficient time to confider the matter, he hoped that the learned Lord (Advocate) would confent to poftpone the fecond reading of the bill till next feffion of Parliament, During the interval, his conftituents, and the rest of his fellow-fubjects in Scotland, might maturely weigh the nature of the law, and approve or difapprove.

The Lord

Scotland.

The Lord Advocate of Scotland answered, that the bill had Advocate of not been hurried through the Houfe. He had propofed the meafure during the laft feffion of Parliament; and furely fince that period, fufficient time had elapfed for the people affected by the regulation to confider the matter. It was not in its structure of a novel nature, as fomething fimilar had been adopted fo far back as the reign of George the First. Mr. Macdowall's motion was withdrawn.

The bill was read a fecond time, and ordered to be committed on a future day.

A meffage was received from the Lords, intimating, that they wished to be in the poffeffion of the Report of the Select Committee, in order more clearly to difcufs the merits of

the

the bill now before them, for propofing to appropriate certain fums towards the diminution or difcharge of the national debt. The Speaker informed the meffengers, that an anfwer would be fent on the morrow, or in the courfe of the next day.

Mr. Pitt moved, "that the House fhould take into confideration the meffage on the morrow." Agreed to.

Mr. Vyner moved for leave to introduce a regulation, ftating, Mr. Vyner. that no county or parifh fhould make application to Parliament for money to be applied towards defraying the expences of erecting or repairing bridges before intimation was given at the General Quarter Seffions. Agreed to.

The Houfe went into a Committee on the perfumery bill, Mr. Elliot in the Chair. The price of the licenfe, which all perfons, felling any article of perfumery, are to be obliged to take annually, was fettled at one fhilling a year.

Mr. Chancellor Pitt confented to expunge a clause for fubjecting the buyer of unftampt articles of perfumery to a penalty.

Mr. Sheridan thought the claufe for empowering the offi- Mr. Sheri cers belonging to the ftamp-office to vifit the houses and dun. apartments of perfons felling fuch articles, an alarming extenfion of the principle of the excife laws.

Mr. Rofe proved, by quoting a paffage from the 4th of Mr. Rofe. George II. that the power was not new, as all perfons felling any article in which ftarch was an ingredient, and confequently perfons felling hair powder, were at this moment liable to be vifited by the Excife officers.

After a defultory converfation, the Committee divided on the claufe, which was carried by a majority of thirty. Ayes 45-Noes 15.

The other claufes were then agreed to, when the House was refumed, and adjourned.

Wednesday, 24th May.

Mr. Rofe prefented a bill for better fecuring the duties on ftarch. As foon as it was read the first time,

Mr. Sheridan contended, that as the bill in queftion did Mr. Sherinot go to the impofition of a new duty, but had, for its ob- dan. ject, a regulation in the mode of collecting an old duty, the Houfe would not act inconfiftently with its vote of the preceding week, were they to give their confent to the printing of it. He therefore moved that the bill be printed. Mr. Chancellor Pitt oppofed the motion. The question was now called for, and negatived. Mr. Chancellor Pitt moved, "That à meffage be sent to "the Lords to acquaint their Lordships, that the Houfe had.

3

"taken

Mr. Fox.

The Rt.

viile.

"taken into confideration their meffage of yesterday, request"ing a copy of the documents on which the Houfe thought "itself juftified in paffing the finking fund bill:" that it was not the practice of either House of Parliament to affign any reafons for having paffed a bill, or to communicate any documents on which either Houfe might have proceeded, except when the preamble of the bill recited fome fact or document on which the bill was avowedly founded; and that this was all the answer which the Houfe could give their Lordships. Mr. Fox obferved, that although he did not wish to contend against the propriety of the motion, yet he by no means defigned to have it understood that he confidered it as strictly warrantable. He was of opinion that the Lords ought to have fuch information as they wanted, to enable them to understand the grounds on which the bill had paffed the Commons. He was of opinion, that before the Houfe agreed to fend the propofed anfwer to the Lords, it ought to be very certain as to the fact afferted in it, "that it was not the prac"tice of parliament to fend," &c. for it would be an aukward fituation for the Houfe to find itself in hereafter, if it fhould be difcovered that the practice now difclaimed was actually in exiftence.

The right honourable W. W. Grenville answered, That Hon. W. as far as it was poffible to prove a negative, the affertion conW. Gren- tained in the motion might be affumed to be proved; for, though the journals had been fearched with great care, not one precedent appeared in which the documents on which the Commons had proceeded in paffing a bill, had ever been fent up to the Lords, except in fuch cafes as were excepted in the motion.

Mr. Fox.

Mr Sheridan thought that the Report of a Committee was only the authority on which the Houfe could beft decide that point.

The queftion was then put on the motion, which was carried without a divifion.

The Eaft-India judicature bill was read a third time; and the Speaker having put the queftion "that this bill do pafs," Mr. Fox faid, that he did not rife to argue upon the merits of the bill, but fimply to enter his proteft against it. It would give him great concern to know that he had been fuppofed to have countenanced a bill, which violated, in a ftriking manner, a vital principle of the conftitution, by taking away from Britifh fubjects their native rights, and fecurity of their liberties-the trial by jury. The manner in which the bill was defended, was not lefs objectionable than the bill itself; for it was urged, that because a parlia mentary trial was not thought the moft convenient, another tribunal, with almoft parliamentary powers, ought to be inftituted.