for power to prevent fuch mifapplication of the money on the part of the Company.

Mr. Huffey faid, the right honourable and learned gentle- Mr. Huffey man's conftruction of the act, of which the House had heard a part of a claufe read, differed from the right honourable gentleman; he thought the claufe implied that the Public were refponfible ultimately, and that if the Eaft-India Com-. pany fhould become bankrupts, the Public were pledged as a collateral fecurity to the fubfcribers.

The bill paffed the Committee, and the report was ordered to be made on Monday,

Mr. Chancellor Pitt stated, that according to the regula- Mr. Chantions of Mr. Burke's bill, no penfions, above a certain cellor Pius. amount, could be granted, without the consent of Parlia ment, and as it was intended to grant three new pensions, (one to Sir Guy Carleton, according to a promise made him, as a reward for his fervices laft war, and two others, to a lefs amount) he meant to bring forward a propofition on the fubject in the courfe of the enfuing Monday, and he thought it his duty to give that notice of his intention. The Houfe adjourned.

Monday, 26th June.

The order of the day for going into a Committee on the finking-fund bill being read,

fter.

Mr. Dempfter begged leave to remind the House how ex- Mr. Demp ceedingly the American Loyalifts wifhed to know what was the intention of Government with respect to two or three points, and he would therefore state what those points were, in hopes that the right honourable gentleman would favour him with an answer. The points in doubt were these, first, whether it was intended to be propofed to the House to make compenfation to thofe Loyalifts, who happened to be in England at the time of the breaking out of the war, and who continued in it during its exiftence? Secondly, whether any provifion was defigned to be made, particularly for profeffional men? And, thirdly, whether it was meant that intereft should be paid upon the claims which had been liquidated, although a temporary relief had been granted, and from what period of time the interest was to commence?

Mr. Chancellor Pitt replied, that with respect to the put- Mr. Chan ting of those perfons, who had been in Europe refiding there cellor Pitt. at the commencement of the troubles in America, on the fame footing with thofe who had struggled for the British interests on the spot, and had for their zeal in our cause and fervice been deprived of their property, and banished from VOL. XX.

3 G

their

Mr. H.
Coke.

their country, it was a thing, he hoped, by no means to be thought of. The one defcription of perfons, it was to be fuppofed, had a confiderable part of their refources, and perhaps the principal part, here at home; the other class, it might reasonably be imagined, had loft their all, and that in the actual fervice of their country. As to a compenfation for profeffional people who had been expelled for their loy. alty, their cafe was widely different from those who had been deprived of an actual property, and were more to be confidered with refpect to an annual provifion and fupport, than as perfons who had loft and expected to be reimbursed a capital. However, with refpe& to each of thofe queftions, he should not take upon him to fay what might ultimately be determined; all that was neceffary to declare on the prefent occafion was, that neither of thofe fets of perfons who were the objects of the queftions were concerned in the provifion now intended to be made. On the fubject of allowing intereft on the whole of the claims as admitted and liquidated by the Commiffioners, that would be pledging the Houfe to pay ultimately the whole of thofe demands, fubject upon which it would not now become him to expa

tiate.

Mr. H. Coke obferved, that taking the whole of the claims as liquidated and allowed, they amounted to no more than two millions, that relief had from year to year been granted, and that thirty and forty per cent. had been paid of the principal. After ftating the amount of the two lotteries for the two last years, and other monies raised for the Loyalists, he contended that little more than fixteen or feventeen hundred thousand pounds remained to be paid to clear the whole of their claims, and that might be had without either taking a fhilling from the Public, or obliging the Minifter to come down and lay a fingle additional tax on the people. The Loyalifts only wished to have it known from authority that the whole of their claims, as liquidated and admitted, would be paid, and they would willingly wait with patience eight, ten, or even twelve years. The reafon was obvious: for when they had an affurance which might be relied on, that they would have the money in a given number of years, they could borrow fums upon that fecurity fufficient in amount to enable them to go into bufinefs, and earn a livelihood for themselves and their families; whereas at present, they were debarred from the chance of doing fo, and were kept inactive and defponding. The plan which Mr. Coke recommended was to put a stop immediately to all temporary relief, and to have a lottery for eleven years together to raife the fund neceffary to fatisfy their claims. He stated in what manner the money might be annually applied in difcharge

of

of the claims of the Loyalifts, and proved that a few thoufands lefs than the fifty-five thousand pounds voted for their relief this prefent feffion, would answer the purpose, if regularly applied every year. Mr. Coke urged the adoption of this propofition on the ground of policy and honour; he faid, that it would operate in recommendation of the national character in the eyes of all the world, nor would it have a lefs beneficial effect with regard to pofterity; it would enfure us a good name in the records of hiftory, which added to the great comfort, eafe of mind, and happiness it would give to a defcription of men, fo well entitled to Parfiamentary confideration as the American Loyalifts, were advantages worth purchafing, even at a much higher price. He declared, that when he had fo lately feen that House fpend a whole day in debating whether a million of the public money fhould be thrown away upon fortifications, he could fcarcely bring himself to think it could hefitate a moment, whether it would vote a million to manifeft an honourable discharge of the public faith, and a stedfaft perfeverance in the promised reward of loyalty. As a farther recommendation of this propofition, he faid, the Commiffioners appointed to investigate the American claims had pared them down with fo much clofenefs and rigour, that that very circumftance might have raised expectations in the minds of the Loyalifts, which, he trufted, would not prove totally difappointed.

Mr. Wilmot fpoke to the three points fuggefted by the Mr. Wilhonourable member who began the converfation-the firft mot. was with regard to thofe who were refident in England during the whole of the war, and the chief of whose profpects lay in this country; and he was glad to find, that though the right honourable gentleman intended to postpone the payment of their loffes till the inquiry was gone through with, he did not mean to reject them. As to the question of allowing an intereft on the liquidated claims, notwithstanding the delicate fituation and double capacity in which he ftood as a Commiffioner of American claims and as a mem ber of Parliament, nobody could be more difpofed than he was to do them every juftice and kindnefs confiftent with his duty. He had now been concerned near four years in that investigation, and whatever predilection he ever had to that diftinguished people, it was now confirmed, and was no more than mere juftice. He though it would be impoffible to reinstate them in the fame relative fituation that they had loft; and over and above their other loffes, there was not a family from that country but had loft a fon, a husband, a brother, or a father. Whenever, therefore, that question came to be agitated, he should be ready to go as far as any

3G 2/

one

one in the liberal compenfation that he hoped would be made to them. But there was one thing thrown out by the honourable gentleman who fpoke laft, which he could not perfectly agree to as far as related to himself, namely, that the claims of the Loyalifts had been pared down, on an idea that they were to be paid the whole of their loffes. For his own part he conceived the bufinefs of the Commiffioners was only to find the loffes as jurymen; their commiffion was only of inquiry, nor fhould he have thought himfelf justi fied in reducing the lofs, because they were to have the whole, or increafing it because they would have only a part. To determine whether the whole, or what proportion the parties fhould receive, lay not with them, but with Parliament. As to the mode of doing it, when that matter came properly before the Houfe, he did not think the plan of the honourable gentleman would anfwer; because the penfions were not paid folely to the Loyalists on account of their lofs of property, or in proportion only to that lofs, but to other loffes of fituation and income, and to many who had loft little or no property at all, and yet having been deprived of their income and means of livelihood by the part they took in the war, were deferving of fupport, among whom were widows, orphans, merchants, &c. a confiderable part of the penfions, therefore, would still fubfift; and if any confideration was given to official and profeffional loffes, as feemed to be intended by the act, he thought little faving could be expected from the penfions at prefent, much lefs fufficient to answer the purpose of the honourable gentleman. As to the profeffional loffes, he thought them peculiarly entitled to prefent confideration, because they yearly decreased, and might be annihilated by the deaths of the parties; whereas loffes of property, though the fame inconvenience might arife from poftponement, would be compenfated to the reprefentatives and relatives of the fufferers. He hoped, therefore, that would be taken into confideration.

The bill was committed and went through the Com

inittee.

Mr. Chancellor Pitt acquainted the Houfe, that he had a meffage from His Majefty to this Houfe, figned by his Majefty; and he prefented the fame to the House, and it was read by Mr. Speaker, and is as followeth, viz.

"GEORGE R.

"His Majefty, being defirous of conferring a fignal "mark of His royal favour ou Sir Guy Carlton, Knight "of the moft honourable order of the Bath, in confidera"tion of the important fervices performed by him to His

Majefty

"Majefty and this country, and of granting for that pur "pose a penfion of one thousand pounds per annum to Lady Maria Carlton, wife of the faid Sir Guy Carlton, " and to Guy Carlton and Thomas Carlton, fons of the "faid Sir Guy Carlton, for their feveral lives but, it not "being in His Majesty's power to grant the fame, or to fet"tle the faid annuity for fo long a term, His Majesty re"commends it to his faithful Commons, to confider of a

proper method of enabling His Majefty to grant the faid "annuity, and of fettling and fecuring the fame in the most "effectual inanner. « G. R."

cellor Pitt.

Mr. Chancellor Pitt having remarked, that the penfion Mr. Chan was promifed to Sir Guy Carlton, fo far back as 1776, moved, "that His Majefty's faid moft gracious meffage be "taken into confideration."

Mr. Chancellor Pitt acquainted the House, that he had a meffage from His Majefty to this Houfe, figned by His Majefty; and he prefented the fame to the House, and it was read by Mr. Speaker, and is as followeth, viz.

"GEORGE R.

"His Majefty, being defirous of conferring a mark of "His royal favour on Brook Watfon, Efq. late Commiffary "General in North America, in confideration of his dili¢ gent and meritorious fervices in that office, recommends "it to his faithful Commons to confider of enabling His "Majefty to grant an annuity of five hundred pounds per "annum to the faid Brook Watfon, Efq. to be paid out of "His Majefty's civil-lift revenues.

"G. R."

cellor Pitt.

Mr. Chancellor Pitt moving," that His Majefty's faid Mr. Chan"moft gracious meffage be taken into confideration," ftated, that when the worthy Alderman undertook the office of Commiffary General in North America, in the Adminiftration of the noble Lord in the blue ribband, he had been promifed the office on the fame conditions on which it had been holden by his predeceffor (Daniel Weir, Efq.) viz. a pension of 500l. a year when the war was ended. These messages were referred for confideration on the morrow.

Mr. Baring brought up a petition from the India Com- Mr.Baring, pany, ftating, that the bill then before the House for the relief of the Company, was defective in many particulars, and praying to be heard by themselves and counfel against it. The petition was ordered to lie on the table.

The report of the Committee on the Eaft-India bill hav