Page images
PDF
EPUB
[blocks in formation]

Clemons, J. S.
Question so resolved in the negative.
Request negatived.
Item agreed to.

Item 316. Shafts, n.e.i., in the rough, per pair (General Tariff), 35.; and on and after 7th December, 1907, ad val., 30 per cent.; (United Kingdom), 35.; and on and after 7th

December, 1907, ad val.. 25 per cent.

[ocr errors]

item was free, but the Tariff Commission
recommended a specific duty of 3s. per pair.
The Government proposed that rate to
another place. At the same time, the Go-
vernment recognised that there should be a
distinction between Shafts, n.e.i., in the
rough," and the next item, "Shafts, n.e.i.,
dressed," and therefore proposed a duty
of 4s. per pair on the latter. However,
what Senator Millen would be pleased to
term a compact was agreed to in another
place, by which ad valorem duties were sub-
stituted for the specific duties on items 314
to 321 inclusive. It must be remembered
that the value of shafts, n.e.i., dressed
is greater than the value of shafts, n.e.i.,
in the rough, and that 30 per cent. on the
latter would not return as much in the way
of actual revenue as would 30 per cent. on
the former. If a specific duty were pro-
posed, there would undoubtedly be a ne-
cessity for discrimination, but an ad valorem
duty does not mean the same amount upon
Seeing that
the one as upon the other.
these rates were agreed to on the voices in
another place, I hope Senator Millen will
not press his request.

Senator MILLEN (New South Wales) [12.51]. It is proposed in this item to make dutiable at 30 per cent. an article which was originally free. That is not only a very alarming increase, but it makes shafts in the rough dutiable at the same rate as those which are bent and dressed. Even from the protectionist stand-point, there ought to be a difference between the two. It was argued yesterday, in the case of timber, that where much labour has been spent on an article, the duty should be increased, and where less labour has been put into it the duty should come down. But here there is the same duty on shafts which are ready to fit in with the cross-bars as on shafts in the rough. The latter might come in at a very nominal figure. Senator LYNCH.-Why should they come might have been applied with equal force to in at all?

Senator MILLEN.-I might well have asked the honorable senator that question when we were dealing with certain mining items. My inclination is that these articles should come in at as low a rate of duty as possible, or even free. But, as I am anxious to expedite matters, and with a view of focussing the attention of the Committee upon what I regard as a quite sufficient duty, I move—

That the House of Representatives be requested to make the duty on item 316 (imports under General Tariff), ad val., 15 per cent., with a view to moving for a rate of 10 per cent. on imports from the United Kingdom. Senator KEATING (Tasmania-Minister of Home Affairs) [12.54].-It is perfectly true that under the old Tariff this

Senator MILLEN (New South Wales) [12.56]. The Minister's argument about ad valorem rates would apply to every item in the Tariff which is the raw material of some other item. Even protectionists ought to support the discrimination which I propose, because if it is desirable as we all admit-to increase labour in the Commonwealth by means of the Tariff, everything should be done to encourage the introduction of material with as little labour done on it as possible. The Minister's argument

saddletrees last night, but he did not urge it on that occasion. The matter is not worth arguing about, because it has been a principle generally accepted by protectionists, free-traders, and even revenue tariffists, that an article which is a raw material should be subjected to a lighter duty than the finished article.

Senator LYNCH.-Yet the honorable senafor voted against Senator Givens' proposal to increase the duty on the finished article in the previous item.

Senator MILLEN.-Because I regarded the proposal as too high. Having determined on a duty of 30 per cent. on the finished article, is the Committee prepared to fix the same duty on the article in the rough?

Senator FINDLEY.-The Minister says that there was a compact. The honorable senator approved the other day of adhering to compacts.

Senator MILLEN.-Whilst a compact of that kind may bind a Cabinet, which is solid, it cannot bind me. Question put.

Ayes
Noes

Dobson, H.

...

...

Majority

Gould, Lt.-Colonel
Gray, J. P.
McColl, J. H.

Millen, E. D.

Neild, Colonel

Pearce, G. F.

Best, R. W.
de Largie, H.
Givens, T.
Guthrie, R. S.
Henderson, G.
Keating, J. H.
Lynch, P. J.
McGregor, G.

The Committee divided.

[blocks in formation]

Pulsford, E.
Sayers, R. J.
St. Ledger, A. J.
Vardon, J.

Teller:
Chataway, T. D.

NOES.

PAIR.

Needham, E.
Russell, E. J.
Russell, W.

Trenwith, W. A.
Turley, H.

Teller.
Findley, E.

2

Clemons, J. S.
I Story, W. H.
Question so resolved in the negative.
Request negatived..

to.

Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.15 p.m.
Item agreed to.

Senator MCCOLL (Victoria) [2.19.]There is the same anomaly in this item as appears in item 316. It is not fair that the rough article should bear the same rate of duty as the dressed article, but in view of the division which was taken before lunch, I do not propose to do more than to enter a protest against it.

Item 319. Bent Poles, dressed, each (General Tariff), 3s. 6d.; and on and after 7th December, 1907, ad val., 30 per cent.; (United Kingdom), 3s. 6d. ; and on and after 7th December, 1907, ad val., 25 per cent.

Request (by Senator KEATING) agreed

to

That the House of Representatives be requested to amend item 319 by leaving out the word "Bent" and inserting after the word "Poles" the words "for Vehicles."

Item 320 (Whiffle-tree Bars) agreed to. Item 321. Shaft Bars, per dozen (General Tariff), 4s. 6d. ; and on and after 7th December, 1907, ad val., 30 per cent.; (United Kingdom), 4s. 6d. ; and on and after 7th December, 1907, ad val., 25 per cent.

Senator PULSFORD (New South Wales) [2.20].-Before the Committee pass this item, which is the last of eight similar items, I desire to state that silence on my part with regard to them is not to be accepted as any approval of the duties. I have simply remained silent, as I did not wish to waste the time of the Committee. I regard the whole of these duties as extremely excessive. In my opinion, this item and the seven previous ones should be placed on the free list.

Request (by Senator STEWART) putThat the House of Representatives be reItem 317 (Shafts, n.e.i., dressed) agreed quested to make the duty on item 321 (imports under General Tariff), ad val., 35 per cent. The Committee divided.

Item 318. Bent Poles, rough, each (General Tariff), 2s. 6d. ; and on and after 7th December, 1907, ad val., 30 per cent.; (United Kingdom), 2s. 6d.; and on and after 7th December, 1907, ad val., 25 per cent.

Senator KEATING (Tasmania—Minister of Home Affairs) [2.16.]—I rise to ask the Committee to request the other House to alter the wording of this item so as to make it applicable to all poles, as there is some difficulty in distinguishing between bent poles and ordinary poles for vehicles. I move

That the House of Representatives be requested to amend item 318 by leaving out the word "Bent" and inserting after the word "Poles" the words "for Vehicles."

If that be carried I intend to ask the Committee to request a similar amendment in the next item.

[merged small][merged small][merged small][merged small][merged small][merged small][merged small][merged small][merged small][ocr errors][merged small][merged small][merged small][ocr errors][merged small][merged small][merged small][merged small]
[blocks in formation]

That would have covered practically all casks, barrels, or vats, n.e.i., full or empty, and intended to contain liquids. After some time my honorable colleague withdrew his amendment, and announced that he intended that the Department should follow its previous policy, and charge no duty on casks, barrels, and vats when imported full. He also indicated the same thing in regard to "hogsheads, secondhand, full or empty," and stated that he intended his colleague to ask the Committee, in another place, to put a high duty on the secondhand casks, barrels, and vats, and empty hogsheads, which were coming in. In the circumstances I regret that I cannot see my way to support the request of Senator de Largie.

[ocr errors]

Question put. The Committee divided.

Ayes
Noes

...

Majority

Many barrels which have been emptied in
the canteens of India, and afterwards
packed with Indian goods, have been im-
ported into Western Australia without pay-
ing any duty. There is a very good reason
why we should levy a duty on a barrel
whether it contains commodities or not.
We know that many tanks have been
brought into the Commonwealth duty free.
When it is mentioned that our coopers have
to meet competition of the sort I have de-
scribed, honorable senators will admit, I
think, that it is quite unnecessary for me to
point out the advisability of levying a duty
on barrels which are brought in with com-
modities for no other purpose than to Best, R. W.

escape taxation.

Findley, E.
Givens, T.
Guthrie, R. S.
Henderson, G.
Lynch, P. J.
Needham, E.
McGregor, G.

Chataway, T. D.
Gould, Lt.-Colonel

Senator GRAY.-What commodities do Grav, J. P. the barrels contain?

Senator DE LARGIE.-A variety of commodities can be, and is, brought into the Commonwealth in barrels. This schedule should not be framed in such a way that Australian workmen can be displaced by the introduction of such articles. As there is a general desire to get on with the business as rapidly as possible I content myself with offering these few remarks in support of the request.

Senator KEATING (Tasmania-Minister of Home Affairs) [2.29].—It is obvious that the words "full or" appeared in the body of the proposal as it was originally submitted elsewhere. The Treasurer moved to amend the wording by the addition of some such words as "intended to contain liquid," so as to make that item read

Casks, Barrels, and Vats, n.e.i., intended to contain liquids, empty or containing goods not subject to ad valorem duty.

Keating, J. H.
Macfarlane, J.
McColl, J. H.
Pulsford, E.

Croft, J. W.
Story, W. H.

[ocr errors]
[merged small][merged small][merged small][ocr errors][merged small][merged small][merged small][merged small][merged small][merged small][merged small][merged small][merged small]

Question so resolved in the negative.
Request negatived.

Senator LYNCH (Western Australia) [2.35]. I move—

That the House of Representatives be requested to amend item 322 by inserting after the word "empty" the words taining liquid.”

[ocr errors]

or except con

Senator MACFARLANE.-We have just carried a division against that.

Senator LYNCH.-I remind the honorable senator that a cask might be imported full of solids. My object is to shut down hard on those who import casks filled with dry goods of various descriptions in order to escape duty under this item. The sworn

evidence before the Tariff Commission shows that the coopering industry, if not almost extinct, is waning in Australia. There are no apprentices now being engaged in the industry.

Senator Sir JOSIAH SYMON.-That is not so at all.

Senator LYNCH.-Then some of the witnesses before the Tariff Commission should be prosecuted for perjury. They certainly gave evidence to show that the industry is waning, and one of the principal reasons advanced in support of their contention was that importers of casks take advantage of the Customs Act to escape duty under this item. I am sure it is not the desire of honorable senators to permit any one, by means of a subterfuge, to evade the Customs Act.

the

Senator MACFARLANE.-I should like, sir, to ask your ruling as to whether Senator Lynch's request can be received. In my opinion, the Committee has already decided against it by the last division taken. The CHAIRMAN.-The previous request was for the insertion of the words "full or." Casks might be full of solids or of liquid. It appears to me that Senator Lynch's proposed request is a modification of the previous request, and does not go so far as was proposed in that case. It is possible that the Committee might have no objection to the free importation of casks containing liquid, whilst honorable senators might object to the free importation of casks containing solids. I think that the

request can be received.

Senator LYNCH. I may inform the Committee that brewers, in need of casks, instead of importing them and paying duty on them, import goods packed in casks, and so evade the payment of duty on the casks. Senator Sir JOSIAH SYMON. What

goods?

Senator LYNCH.-Hops, amongst other goods. My request, if agreed to, would work no hardship on any person who is prepared to deal honestly by the coopering industry of this country.

Senator Sir JOSIAH SYMON.-Can the honorable senator produce any evidence that casks, required by brewers, are imported as packages for dry goods?

[blocks in formation]

Senator LYNCH.-I have given an example, and the honorable senator will admit that, if brewers wish to import hops, they can import them in tanks. that when they use casks for the purpose of importing hops they do so to evade the duty on the casks. The natural purpose

of a cask is to hold liquid, and when casks are used to import dry goods which could be imported in cases or in tanks the allegation that the Customs Tariff is evaded. is proved.

Senator GIVENS.-If casks are not imported filled with dry goods, why do honorable senators opposite object to the request?

Senator Sir JOSIAH SYMON.-What is the request?

[ocr errors]

Senator LYNCH.-To insert, after the word empty," the words or except containing liquid."

Senator Sir JOSIAH SYMON.-That is a very awkward way of putting it.

Senator LYNCH.—I think it makes my intention clear.

Senator PULSFORD -Barrels, containing cement, would have to pay duty under the honorable senator's request.

Senator LYNCH.-Decidedly.

The CHAIRMAN.-I point out to the honorable senator that casks containing liquid are already exempt from duty under the item.

Senator LYNCH. My purpose is to and casks containing liquid. differentiate between casks containing solids

The CHAIRMAN.-I think it will benecessary for the honorable senator to mention the goods which, if imported in casks, should, in his opinion, render the casks As under this item casks liable to duty. containing liquid are already free, the inexcept containing sertion of the words liquid," in the way proposed, would, in my opinion, be a duplication.

[ocr errors]

Senator KEATING (Tasmania-MinHome ister of Affairs [2.45].—What Senator Lynch desires to establish is that persons shall not, under the guise of importing certain goods, put them into casks, and so escape the duty on casks, barrels, or vats. If we could word the item so as to say that casks containing liquid. shall be free, and all other casks or casks with contents other than liquid dutiable, it would achieve Senator Lynch's object. But it would certainly go further than I think is justifiable, because casks, barrels, and vats are frequently used as the containers or outside packages of other For instance, articles than liquids. cement is imported in casks. In Canada, with which country our trade has increased in recent years, barrels are commonly used for the transport of apples. Fish and

thick ink are also imported in casks. The object and policy of the Tariff is so to arrange the list of articles that no opportunity shall be given to persons, by such devices as have been referred to by Senator Lynch, to get in any article at a lower rate of duty than that properly chargeable on it. Under item 450, outside packages n.e.i., including the sole containing package in which the goods are ordinarily imported, are made free. Those words, in which the goods are ordinarily imported," meet Senator Lynch's point. If casks are imported with contents which are ordinarily imported in casks they come in free. If they contain something else, they are dutiable, and the Customs will treat them as dutiable. So that if a cask

66

or a barrel came in filled with shavings or stationery, or something else that is not ordinarily imported in a cask, it would be an independent article, not a package, and would be subject to dutv. Under there circumstances there is hardly any necessity for Senator Lynch to move request.

Item agreed to.

Senator GIVENS (Queensland) [2.48].

a

--I desire to have a correction made in a
division list recorded in the Journals
issued this morning. I find that my
name is not recorded as having voted in
a division on Senator Lynch's request with
which we dealt last night. Hansard re-
cords me as having been present, and
as voting. As a matter of fact, I was
sent and took part in the division.
was sitting at the table. I think it only
right that my name should be inserted in
the division list, and that a correction
should be made in the Journals.

[blocks in formation]

12S.

That the House of Representatives be requested to make the duty on item 323, each, The Tariff Commission recommended a schedule was introduced in another place, duty of 12s. on hogsheads, and as the that also was the proposition of the Government. There are very strong reasons

why there should be a fixed duty in respect of hogsheads secondhand empty. I have definite information that these hogsheads can be obtained in Calcutta for 6s. each,

and when broken up into shooks, for 6s. 6d. That is not an idle statement.

It

is confirmed by a perusal of a circular is-
sued by Calcutta agents to persons in Mel-
bourne, stating their ability to supply an
unlimited quantity of hogsheads in shooks
For many
at the prices I have mentioned.
purposes, I am informed hogsheads and
shooks, after having been once used, are
better than they would be if absolutely
new. There is no doubt whatever that
injury is being done to the coopering trad
by the excessive importation of hogsheads
from India. Evidence was given before
the Tariff Commission by various men en-

pre-gaged in the coopering trade, to the effect
that in Victoria, for a long time, the busi-
ness had been in a very depressed state.
Mr. Robert Lynch, Secretary of the Vic-
torian Society of Coopers, said that
there were from 150 to 200 coopers
in Victoria, the average number of
employés being not more than three
at each cooperage. For years, re
said, there had been no apprenticeship.
whereas formerly there was at least one
apprentice at each cooperage. He pointed
out that fifty men were engaged in Mel-
bourne and suburbs in repairing old casks.
The brewers do not use 5 per cent. of
locally-made casks. Of course, coopers
are employed in the breweries, but there
are not so many as there were a few years
ago, owing to the fact that the breweries
are importing secondhand hogsheads from
India. Mr. Lynch also stated that the ef-
fect of the Commonwealth Tariff had been
almost to crush the coopering industry.
When my honorable friend, Senator Lynch,

The CHAIRMAN.-I understand that the facts are as stated by Senator Givens. The honorable senator was not observed by the teller. I will ask the Clerk to make the necessary correction in the Journals. According to the strict interpretation of the Standing Orders, when a division takes place, honorable senators should take their places on one side of the chamber or the other. The "places referred to in the Standing Orders are, I think, the benches, not seats at the table or the writing desks. It is not difficult for a teller--especially in the case of some honorable senators to fail to notice a senator who may be seated at the table or at one of the writing desks. If during livisions honorable senators would take

[ocr errors]
« ՆախորդըՇարունակել »